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  • Results 1 to 6 of 6

    Thread: Bacterial Gill Disease Starting?

    1. #1
      Peepers Mom is offline Junior Member
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      Bacterial Gill Disease Starting?

      I've got a 16" Hi Showa that was doing a little piping at the surface of the pond about a week ago, so we pulled him out last weekend to take a look. Mild sedation, scrape and scope, weight, pics. Not normal at all for him, and not a hunger move.
      Other than that, he's eating and swimming fine.

      Pond: Covered 7,500 gallons with constant slow flow-through w/dechlor pump
      Ammonia: 0
      Nitrite: 0
      pH: 7.8 constant/med-hard water
      Temp: Gently heated and has been around 65F all winter, recently gone up to 72 (Oregon)
      Filtration: 6-bay flow-through system and pre-filters on the waterfall. Filters are dumped and maintained every couple of weeks or so during the winter, more during spring and summer, waterfall filters changed every couple of days. There is extra aeration in the form of a huge bubbler, and the waterfall constantly being on.
      Stocking: A bit high at 20 or so, but filtration keeps up well. Fed once a day.

      There has been a bit of doc's in the water the last couple of weeks, but have been doing extra changes to help clear that out; probably because the water is a bit warmer right now and more sun, but we'll be lowering that a couple of degrees until we officially take down the cover and the weather warms up and the pond heater is undone for the season.

      In the past I have had problems with costia and flukes and have lost several fish, so I try to keep the water as clean as possible. I do routine pond vacuuming and the bottom was cleaned late last fall before tucking them under cover. Lots of birds and frogs when they can get to it. Since the new filter system was installed 3 years ago and the clean water flow-through, things have been really good. However, I do still get flukes recurring and treat with prazi when needed.

      This photo is of the Showa just a few days ago. He's acting fine now and not piping at the moment, eating good, swimming good.
      There were no ulcers or anything else we could see, however the gills look 'off' to me, which is the reason for the post. We pulled him specifically to examine the gills based on his behavior last week.

      I'd like to get some opinions if these look like a mild case of gill disease that may be brought on by parasite activity. (There were no signs of flukes on either body or gill scrapes, but I wouldn't expect any since I did do a prazi treatment last week right after I noticed his distress. Flukes area recurring issue with us, so I preempted a strike on them. Prazi had been in the water for 4 days prior to pulling and photo.)

      You can see (seems to me) that his gills look a bit pale and the lamellae seem to be whitish down the length. I didn't notice any shredding or missing pieces. There is also a white blob that was stuck to a portion of the gill, which I'm thinking (hope not) might be a fungus patch.

      We'll also be pulling one or two more next weekend and checking more of them.
      Thanks for your input!
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    2. #2
      Marilyn's Avatar
      Marilyn is offline Supporting Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
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      I'm sure someone on the Health Committee will be along shortly.
      Do you have Chloramine T or BDGX on hand, by chance?
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    3. #3
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      Hi, Marilyn - thanks for answering. :-) I do actually have come KaiZen Chloramine-T, but haven't used it in a few years. I used it before, but I think it was on some quarantined youngsters and not for this. Dosage on the jar says 5mg per 1,200 gallons as antibacterial, or 15-20 as antiparasite. I've read it might hinder the filter system, too, but I have a huge system. ? I also have higher KH (hard water) and higher pH (7.8 atm).

      If I use it I will probably want to treat the whole pond since if that's what it is, others may have it too since if it's due to parasites (and I think it prob is) then it most likely would be pond wide. But, I plan on pulling a couple more to check when I get a chance. I can probably try a dip, but would rather just keep him in the pond if possible. He's acting fine still, but want to get ahead of it.

      I also did a gill scrape, but not a snip. *ouch* Also didn't see any flukes and I probably wouldn't because I had just done a round of prazi. At least one more prazi round on the plan since it's now at 1 week since the last one.

      I have just about everything else on hand, too.
      Thanks!

    4. #4
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      I checked the Health Committee sticky and I didn't find a dosing recommendation. This is a medication that is pH/hardness sensitive. This link gives you and idea of usage.

      http://www.koivet.com/a_chloramine_T...tions_koi.html

      Chloramine T is the chemical name, for want of a better term, and BGDX is the product put out by Argent Labs. I'm not sure if dosing is the same since some companies add fillers to the basic chemical to make measurements easier since it takes a small amount of the chemical. The label should say and BGDX is found in a lot of koi dry good retailers.

      I've used it as a bath for one koi affected with bacterial gill disease and it worked beautifully. Make sure to rinse the koi post bath treatment as even a small amount introduced into your pond can do a number on the good bacteria for the nitrogen cycle. Rinse is done by simply having another tub of clean pond water to move the koi into post the medicated bath. I let mine swim in it for around a minute before lifting it to put back in my pond.

      Also, you mentioned battling flukes. I had the same conundrum years ago while using Prazi. I've found that Fenbendazole or Fluke-M is a far superior product for getting rid of flukes.

      Hope that helps!

      PS Good job catching it and checking the other koi. If left untreated it can really do a number on the koi in a pond.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    5. #5
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      Thank you so much, Marilyn! I just posted a reply prior to this one, so hopefully these will show up soon. :-)
      I've discovered that Halamid is also the same thing as Chloramine-T. I probably don't have enough now to treat long, so will try to get some more. Also, I've got a whole tub of Virkon-Aquatic, but I think that is different and does different things.

      Thank you for the Fenbendazole advice -- I've definitely heard about that but never tried it. I would LOVE to hear from others too if that would be better to use than prazi; I've had a ton of trouble with flukes, even at higher prazi doses! Anybody? Please and thank you!!

      So, you also recommend doing a bath treatment..... what about treating the whole pond, if I need to? Probably bi-passing the filter for awhile, of course.

      THANKS!!

    6. #6
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      I chose to do a bath because I only had one koi mildly affected, I believe this is kind of your situation.
      I have treated all of my koi in a show tank and then reintroduced them to the pond in the manner I spoke of before, by rinsing them and the putting them in. I hesitate to do the whole pond because I don't know how long the Chloramine T stays active and would work on your filter bacteria. I'm afraid I just don't have enough information or experience doing that way to be comfortable recommending it.

      The Prazi situation has been a frustration for many for at least 4 years, that I know of. In fact, there is a Health Care Sticky that mentions FlukeM:

      During quarantine, many collectors wisely treat their new arrivals with a standard parasite treatment such as FMG & Kusuri Fluke-M. The customary protocol calls for 100ml FMG or 150ml ProformC per 1000 gallons. Begin by increasing the aeration significantly. Three consecutive treatments of FMG or ProformC over three days. Small water changes such as 20% should be made to enhance the performance of the chemical.
      Kusuri Fluke-M is easily the most effective and yet the most benign of all fluke treatments.
      The sticky is here:

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...-Health-Sticky
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

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