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    Thread: New koi with Fin rot?

    1. #1
      RyanSchoolya is offline Junior Member
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      New koi with Fin rot?

      Picked up two fish from a local hobbyist, and put them in quarantine. The fish immediately developed fin rot, combined with skin rot? Some kind of skin sores. Antibiotics(kanaplex and metroplex, both in water and food),methylene blue and 0.3% salt do not seem to be having any effect. Seemed healthy when I got them, but they went straight into new, treated, water. So? At a loss. Damage is progressing in hours. I have got fish from the individual before and they seemed to have Hexamita, that is why I treated with Metroplex right off the bat. I will not be getting any more from him. Only got these as replacements for two (out of four)that died.




    2. #2
      RyanSchoolya is offline Junior Member
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      columnaris?

    3. #3
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      I don't know what's wrong, but I'll bump this up so others can see it.

      Fyi, they will want to know some info to help you such as;

      Water tests results; Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH and KH.

      If you don't have a test kit most good pet stores with have these kits to test the water. API makes are very nice one that is affordable.

      Also helpful to know; water temp, and how many gallons, and how many fish with approx size.

      Hopefully some of the more knowledgeable folks will be along shortly.
      Regards,BarbJ
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    4. #4
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Looks like Ich or Costia.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    5. #5
      RyanSchoolya is offline Junior Member
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      PH 8.2 Hospital tank 40 gallon in it measured(50 gallon tank). 50% daily water changes to take care of Ammonia.

    6. #6
      KoiValley's Avatar
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      So,
      you received two fish as replacements for other fish which died. Meantime I'm thinking that the hobbyist who is involved probably has questioned why your fish are dying while his are doing fine.

      If this is the case, then it has nothing to do with the source and everything to do with something in or about your system/tank/pond.

      I'd place a small wager that he/she has asked about what measures you are taking in terms of husbandry as his/her fish are doing fine.....


      Explore what is happening and why. Drop the water column antibiotics. That is just plain hype anyway and has no real value except for those who are selling it.

      Open up your filters. Check for any spoiled smells. That may give you your answer.

      Double check your dechlorinator. I've seen reactions like this with old product.

      Continue to investigate your system and post what you see and any areas you feel need improvement.......

      Sometimes everything is laid off on the vendor when it has nothing to with them at all.
      Last edited by KoiValley; 06-06-2015 at 05:45 PM.
      Karl Schoeler, founder: EIHIOICGI

      Certified: AKCA Better Health Practices December 2008


    7. #7
      KoiValley's Avatar
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      Hexamita is successfully treated with Metronidazole. It is mixed in warm water into a slurry and then applied to the food. Once dried it is fed to the fish for a minimum of 7 days and is better at ten. No other food is fed during this time. Anything else which claims to kill hexamita I have not found to be true.

      Water column antibiotics are a function of the marketing department of most pet product suppliers to the industry. It sells. They make more and different kinds. It sells. They make more and more different selections to the line. Something repeated within the experienced hobbyists is "don't need that s#it".
      Last edited by KoiValley; 06-06-2015 at 05:43 PM.
      Karl Schoeler, founder: EIHIOICGI

      Certified: AKCA Better Health Practices December 2008


    8. #8
      RyanSchoolya is offline Junior Member
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      This hospital tank(55 gal) these went into was soaked with bleach and cleaned/air dried before filled and treated with Prime(within date) and left for an hour before fish. My only filteration consist of filter fabric, which I am cleaning daily, when I do a 50% water change. I do no expect filter bacteria to colonize in this setup, due to the antibiotics and meth blue. These symptoms appeared within 24hrs. Not to push it off on a vendor, but I do not think I am doing anything wrong. He thinks Meth blue cures all. Both times I have went there he has had dead fish in the various over crowded tanks. He has never asked me about my setup. Just says "this stuff happens, Ive never figured out why. Ill replace whatever you lose." I have never even had to show a dead fish. I will not be buying from him again, but at least wanted to try and get something for my money.

      My main system has had ZERO causality and holds ammonia, nitrite and nitrate at 0.


      Quote Originally Posted by KoiValley View Post
      I'd place a small wager that he/she has asked about what measures you are taking in terms of husbandry as his/her fish are doing fine.....
      What do I get?

    9. #9
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by RyanSchoolya View Post
      This hospital tank(55 gal) these went into was soaked with bleach and cleaned/air dried before filled and treated with Prime(within date) and left for an hour before fish. My only filteration consist of filter fabric, which I am cleaning daily, when I do a 50% water change. I do no expect filter bacteria to colonize in this setup, due to the antibiotics and meth blue. These symptoms appeared within 24hrs. Not to push it off on a vendor, but I do not think I am doing anything wrong. He thinks Meth blue cures all. Both times I have went there he has had dead fish in the various over crowded tanks. He has never asked me about my setup. Just says "this stuff happens, Ive never figured out why. Ill replace whatever you lose." I have never even had to show a dead fish. I will not be buying from him again, but at least wanted to try and get something for my money.

      My main system has had ZERO causality and holds ammonia, nitrite and nitrate at 0.



      What do I get?
      So then, it is obvious there is nothing wrong with your system. Why not just do a scrape and scope and see what you have?
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    10. #10
      RyanSchoolya is offline Junior Member
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      Ive considered buying a scope, but do not have one. Called the local agricultural extension office, and they only have one that goes to 100X. I live an hour from anywhere. I imagine a good aquarium supply store would have one? I am sure something could be wrong with my system, I just have no idea what.

      How's this?
      http://www.amazon.com/AmScope-M158C-...rds=microscope
      Last edited by RyanSchoolya; 06-06-2015 at 07:04 PM.

    11. #11
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      I think that that scope would be a good one, except it needs a mechanical stage. You can go to http://www.amscope.com/ and find the same microscope and add a mechanical stage, or find one that has the mechanical stage with similar features. I would not count on being able to see all parasites on the computer screen. That camera is too low resolution, and may not have a fast enough refresh rate to be able to see the movement that is critical to identifying the parasites.

      Assuming it is parasites, as mentioned by Russ, I would be looking to treat with Proform-C. It does require a 25% water change before treatment, and you are doing 50% so that is good, and it takes 3 treatments, one per day, to kill all of the parasites except flukes, lice and anchor worm. To treat for flukes you would need to treat with Prazi, but it has to stay in the water for at least a week and two weeks is better, but with your water changes it would have to be redosed every day and that would get expensive.

      I would think you would have better results if your QT were in the 150 gallon, or 300 gallon size. With these you could set up filters that would keep up with the fish waste.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    12. #12
      RyanSchoolya is offline Junior Member
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      Good point on the camera. Thanks for all the great info.

    13. #13
      nmtsaki's Avatar
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      You can get a fairly good canister system from bigalsonline.com. A great small QT is a Rubbermaid stock tank that can be purchased at a tractor supply store. I have a 150 gallon one in my basement, with two Rena canister filters on it, plus some additional aeration. They also have 300 gallon ones, but I think this would be hard to get into a basement. It could be set up in a garage, or even outside, but would have to be netted against predators, and also from the fish themselves trying to escape. Very sturdy and last a lifetime.


      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."






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    14. #14
      KoiValley's Avatar
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      The suggestions by Rich, Nancy and Russ all make sense. If you want to have any chance in saving your new additions you really need to move rather quickly. A larger q-tank. Order ProformC (or similar) and Praziquantel. Online ordering is probably the best in your situation. Start the treatment protocol at once. Without a scope it is a shotgun approach but it has merit. You're starting where many others have been and for the most part have been successful.

      I've seen koi with these symptoms and I generally go with two areas to address: A fluke infestation along with some other factor involving the q-tank. That doesn't mean it will be what I've seen in the past but it will certainly rule out both problems that are apparent.
      Karl Schoeler, founder: EIHIOICGI

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    15. #15
      RyanSchoolya is offline Junior Member
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      Both fish died(last night) within 48hrs of showing first signs. Do I need to worry about KHV?
      The blue color is due to methylene blue. Could this guy have bred Meth Blue resistant Flukes?
      Tested ammonia before dumping tank and it wasn't crazy(~0-0.25ppm)
      Last edited by RyanSchoolya; 06-07-2015 at 08:59 AM.

    16. #16
      kdh is offline Senior Member
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      That looks like BGD(bacterial gill disease). If I read your thread correctly,you do not have any other fish in Quarantine?

    17. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      That looks like BGD(bacterial gill disease). If I read your thread correctly,you do not have any other fish in Quarantine?
      I do not. I waited to pick up these replacements until the first batch where out.

    18. #18
      kdh is offline Senior Member
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      Sorry lesson learned for you. Never purchase or bring home koi when you see issues. Just walk away. A very good thing these koi were not introduced to your pond and shows how important it is to have a QT system. Good for you.

      I would also suggest you have a talk with your friend and he does not give or sell his koi to others until the problem/problems are resolved. His attitude of (this stuff happens) is true to an extent. But if he is doing very little to correct or fix his system and deal with issues,than that is disturbing. I would recommend to tell others to stay away form his koi until he gets his act cleaned up.

    19. #19
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      Its what I get for finding koi on Craigslist.

    20. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      That looks like BGD(bacterial gill disease). If I read your thread correctly,you do not have any other fish in Quarantine?
      Yes, it could also be Costia as Costia also destroys gill tissue as well as causing external damage on the Koi. I don't think you will usually see the same extent of external damage with bacterial gill disease.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

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