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  • Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
    Results 21 to 29 of 29

    Thread: Female Kohaku Oyagoi?

    1. #21
      mrbradleybradley is offline Member
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      Roger, the creation of a new variety is not the same as creating a line. Kodama is a good source of info. I have no problem and agree. Yes, albino has made a contribution to the making of some varieties. But, albino is not played as a base fish with super qualities. The feature of an albino is the absence of the ability to produce melanin. Koi traits are a complex group of genes for colour, pattern, skin, lustre, and body structure. The absence of melanin does not influence or make for a base fish with all of the other intricate details and features you need in koi.

      If you want to build your own line, listen to the professional breeders, source good quality stock, have a plan and spend the next 20 years learning.
      Koi Society of Australia www.ksakoi.com

    2. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by mrbradleybradley View Post
      here we go again [...] I know you will bang on forever about the wonderful use of albino.
      I really don't see the need for the apparent rudeness mrbradleybradley. This is the second time you have taken a 'swipe' at Wayne. It is one thing to disagree (even strongly) with someone and have a civilised debate in a respectful manner - it is quite another thing to be disrespectful (and in this case towards a long standing, appreciated and respected member of Koiphen) due to plain bad manners. This isn't your Forum: You are a guest here on Koiphen and having good manners and 'Playing Nicely with Others' should be the order of the day.

      abuchi, your post got off track a bit but I for one hope that you do find a nice girl to breed from and I look forward to your updates when it happens!

      No matter how 'good' the parent Koi are, it is still all pretty much a crap shoot simply because as 'hobbyists' no one can obtain anything close to the 'perfect' Koi - not even the Japanese breeders have 'perfect' Koi. So just do your research, find the best you possibly can, then cross fingers!

      ......

      The Ki Shusui Autumn Harvest 2013!


      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...56#post2338156

      Outstanding Effort by All the Ki Kichi Team!

      ..........................

    3. #23
      wayne1's Avatar
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      Brad
      It's a well known fact that ''AKEMI KI GOI '' since 1930 has played a very important part in the breeding and improvement of koi as its a pure line and has many advantages in it's use a help to a quality line of koi ,and is still used for this purpose .
      the only other results near to it is UV -light manipulation which has had its use in all carp breeding and manipulation over the past 50 year's.
      While I do suggest it's use as a help to breeding and improvement of koi lines ,as you will copy the mothers genes by as much as 85% ,it's then down to selection of the F1's ,F2's AND F3'S from these to have a quality line but its still all down to the first fish used as to it's breeding results and if it's of a quality production .
      As for me saying its a base fish that is wrong and a miss quote ,you have to have the main brood fish of high quality to start with then if production is not where you want it to be then the use of '' Akemi ki goi ''is of use as are extra out crosses and backcrosses within that line and a sub line also created at the same time to cross over later down the line to help keep it good .
      I do not say its a bee all and end all fish ,there is quite simply more genes to work with and manipulate to your advantage as a koi breeder .
      So having said all that using it will give you quicker and a higher percentage of keepers and fixing is easier also ,so yes its a breeders secret fish to have in a breeding project but one of many and at the end of the day its all on culling and growing on the right fish ,which takes years of experience which can only be learned from practical knowledge .

    4. #24
      wayne1's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by wayne1 View Post
      Brad
      It's a well known fact that ''AKEMI KI GOI '' since 1930 has played a very important part in the breeding and improvement of koi as its a pure line and has many advantages in it's use a help to a quality line of koi ,and is still used for this purpose .
      the only other results near to it is UV -light manipulation which has had its use in all carp breeding and manipulation over the past 50 year's.
      While I do suggest it's use as a help to breeding and improvement of koi lines ,as you will copy the mothers genes by as much as 85% ,it's then down to selection of the F1's ,F2's AND F3'S from these to have a quality line but its still all down to the first fish used as to it's breeding results and if it's of a quality production .
      As for me saying its a base fish that is wrong and a miss quote ,you have to have the main brood fish of high quality to start with then if production is not where you want it to be then the use of '' Akemi ki goi ''is of use as are extra out crosses and backcrosses within that line and a sub line also created at the same time to cross over later down the line to help keep it good .
      I do not say its a bee all and end all fish ,there is quite simply more genes to work with and manipulate to your advantage as a koi breeder .
      So having said all that using it will give you quicker and a higher percentage of keepers and fixing is easier also ,so yes its a breeders secret fish to have in a breeding project but one of many and at the end of the day its all on culling and growing on the right fish ,which takes years of experience which can only be learned from practical knowledge .
      oh and nice to see you back on Koiphen ! posting

    5. #25
      Bunyip is offline Senior Member
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      Ummmm... I just reread this and thought I had better clarify!

      Quote Originally Posted by Bunyip View Post
      abuchi, your post got off track a bit but I for one hope that you do find a nice girl to breed from and I look forward to your updates when it happens!
      What I meant was, I hope you find a nice girl Koi to put to another nice boy Koi and I hope they breed! Not that I hope you find a nice girl to breed from! (Ok, made myself laugh! )
      ......

      The Ki Shusui Autumn Harvest 2013!


      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...56#post2338156

      Outstanding Effort by All the Ki Kichi Team!

      ..........................

    6. #26
      mrbradleybradley is offline Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Bunyip View Post
      I really don't see the need for the apparent rudeness mrbradleybradley. This is the second time you have taken a 'swipe' at Wayne. It is one thing to disagree (even strongly) with someone and have a civilised debate in a respectful manner - it is quite another thing to be disrespectful (and in this case towards a long standing, appreciated and respected member of Koiphen) due to plain bad manners. This isn't your Forum: You are a guest here on Koiphen and having good manners and 'Playing Nicely with Others' should be the order of the day.

      abuchi, your post got off track a bit but I for one hope that you do find a nice girl to breed from and I look forward to your updates when it happens!

      No matter how 'good' the parent Koi are, it is still all pretty much a crap shoot simply because as 'hobbyists' no one can obtain anything close to the 'perfect' Koi - not even the Japanese breeders have 'perfect' Koi. So just do your research, find the best you possibly can, then cross fingers!

      If wayne1 thinks I am being rude, I am sure he would tell me and keep on telling me.

      If ever you are in Sydney, be sure to look me up I'd be happy to introduce you around.
      Last edited by mrbradleybradley; 01-06-2014 at 06:24 AM.
      Koi Society of Australia www.ksakoi.com

    7. #27
      mrbradleybradley is offline Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by wayne1 View Post
      Brad
      It's a well known fact that ''AKEMI KI GOI '' since 1930 has played a very important part in the breeding and improvement of koi as its a pure line and has many advantages in it's use a help to a quality line of koi ,and is still used for this purpose .
      the only other results near to it is UV -light manipulation which has had its use in all carp breeding and manipulation over the past 50 year's.
      While I do suggest it's use as a help to breeding and improvement of koi lines ,as you will copy the mothers genes by as much as 85% ,it's then down to selection of the F1's ,F2's AND F3'S from these to have a quality line but its still all down to the first fish used as to it's breeding results and if it's of a quality production .
      As for me saying its a base fish that is wrong and a miss quote ,you have to have the main brood fish of high quality to start with then if production is not where you want it to be then the use of '' Akemi ki goi ''is of use as are extra out crosses and backcrosses within that line and a sub line also created at the same time to cross over later down the line to help keep it good .
      I do not say its a bee all and end all fish ,there is quite simply more genes to work with and manipulate to your advantage as a koi breeder .
      So having said all that using it will give you quicker and a higher percentage of keepers and fixing is easier also ,so yes its a breeders secret fish to have in a breeding project but one of many and at the end of the day its all on culling and growing on the right fish ,which takes years of experience which can only be learned from practical knowledge .
      Like you, I know a lot. And I challenge the information. I will debate, I will disagree. If I do not believe your information or that of anyone else is accurate I will raise the contest of fact and conclusion. But, I also know you will bang on about it and so will I. As you know, the debate or strong discussion will be with some passion - argument carries that by it's very nature. Imagine if Darwin shut up over the arguments he must have had!

      So, if you or Bunyip, or anyone dislikes the tone of argument I will suggest they look for the opportunity to think about what is being said and perhaps learn something.
      Koi Society of Australia www.ksakoi.com

    8. #28
      Bunyip is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by mrbradleybradley View Post
      If ever you are in Sydney, be sure to look me up I'd be happy to introduce you around.
      That is very gracious of you, thank you.
      ......

      The Ki Shusui Autumn Harvest 2013!


      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...56#post2338156

      Outstanding Effort by All the Ki Kichi Team!

      ..........................

    9. #29
      wayne1's Avatar
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      Hi Brad
      well that's what forums are for debate and to put ones views over for good discussion ! ,and if we can learn from each others experience's that's what koi breeding and keeping is all about and koi forums like KOIPHEN ! right so lets debate ,a good discussion on a good topic like koi breeding !.
      I don't see your tone as bad your Questioning me is a good thing and can only be a forward move ! ,and yes I do go on about Akemi ki goi ,because fact it doe's help in breeding been a pure form originally bred from Kohaku and Asagi ,which are at the Core of breeding koi ,but are just a few to mention .
      And it goes' much deeper than that !.
      If you Have tried Akemi ki goi in your breeding ,you might actually realize it is a advantage to breeding !,and who knows you may also learn some advantages in using this fish .
      but for all I know you may of done this and not had a good result ,as breeding is not that simple as you know with genetics .

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