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    Thread: Fish breaches water often, blows bubbles out of gills...

    1. #1
      DebiCraig's Avatar
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      Fish breaches water often, blows bubbles out of gills...

      There is another post regarding this behavior "Unusual behavior, video" ...As I read through all the posts and watching the video below, I too have a new Koi that is doing this exact some thing -- she's been doing this now for over a month. All water parameters are good, no other fish are showing signs of this same behavior. We purchased her through a local vender that we trust and she was quarantined for 3 weeks. Some history on this koi is that she lived in a 600 gallon tank inside for over 1 1/2 year with no new fish introduced in this tank. She is happy, eats, swims around, but occasionally needs to come to the surface for air, once she returns to the pond, bubbles come out of her gills. I've sat out their for hours and she normally does this once every hour. I've noticed that she will come to the surface to eat and then sometimes will go to the bottom to rest for few minutes or two..Then, she is back up looking of food. I also noticed that she rests near the bottom more at night. My pond is big, 8000 gallons, and do not have the ability to scrap. All other fish are fine. I'm very concerned come winter here in Michigan..she will not survive because my fish stay in this pond all winter. She looks healthy and is growing like crazy. Engages in spawning activities with other Koi. Actually, a trouble-maker like my other butterfly Koi, Kiwa.... Any advice?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIzRPh-6Xk4

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    2. #2
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      Do you scope or know anyone that can? I would at least try and get a gill sample and look and make sure it doesn't have gill flukes or something similar. That's not normal. I have a koi that will breach and blow bubbles but not like that, Mine usually does it once she has been fed and she blows the bubbles in the palm of my hand. I was worried for a while as I also saw her flash a few times here and there but that also seems to be related to feeding time as I don't see her do it any other time except within a few minutes after feeding. I have checked her a few times and found nothing. The way yours is breaching and the frequency does not look normal at all. Scoping and scraping is the best way to make more certain that is not a problem and more a singled out fish reaction.

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      Quote Originally Posted by fishin4cars View Post
      Do you scope or know anyone that can? I would at least try and get a gill sample and look and make sure it doesn't have gill flukes or something similar. That's not normal. I have a koi that will breach and blow bubbles but not like that, Mine usually does it once she has been fed and she blows the bubbles in the palm of my hand. I was worried for a while as I also saw her flash a few times here and there but that also seems to be related to feeding time as I don't see her do it any other time except within a few minutes after feeding. I have checked her a few times and found nothing. The way yours is breaching and the frequency does not look normal at all. Scoping and scraping is the best way to make more certain that is not a problem and more a singled out fish reaction.
      I do have someone that can do this if I bring the fish to them...30 miles away. We still need to drain the pond down 50 - 60% in order to catch her. It's not an easy task. Believe me.. That's the disadvantage of having a large pond. Looks like this might be my only choice....can the person that scopes see if there is something lounged in her mouth, do you know? What do they need to look for if not parasites?

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      With your pond size and the limited ability to catch fish you have to make decision about the coarse of action. It could be flukes but Prazi will cost you $300+ to treat the entire pond. A 50% water change and a 30 mile trip won't be cheep either. Good luck.
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      Quote Originally Posted by davidjensen View Post
      With your pond size and the limited ability to catch fish you have to make decision about the coarse of action. It could be flukes but Prazi will cost you $300+ to treat the entire pond. A 50% water change and a 30 mile trip won't be cheep either. Good luck.
      You can get the cost down to $40.00 per 100 grams by buying in bulk, I just got a Kilo for $397.00 delivered.
      Stacey

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      Could be something stuck in the gills and it is just trying to clear it... I had this happen once with a leaf. Flukes are possible. A swim bladder issue is possible also, did the dealer ship the fish to you via air transport?

      No mater what I would suggest catching that one and checking out it's gills. Post updates when you have them... and good luck!

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    7. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by DebiCraig View Post
      I do have someone that can do this if I bring the fish to them...30 miles away. We still need to drain the pond down 50 - 60% in order to catch her. It's not an easy task. Believe me.. That's the disadvantage of having a large pond. Looks like this might be my only choice....can the person that scopes see if there is something lounged in her mouth, do you know? What do they need to look for if not parasites?
      Any possibility they could come to you? I agree catching is not a easy task and can be both stressful for you and the Koi. I would want to check and see at the location where the fish is so If I had to remove it I could go straight to a holding tank to treat in.
      I hadn't thought about something being lodged in the throat or gills but as others have stated it's a possibility, and it could be checked all at one time. As for the swim bladder, I don't know how you would check to determine if that is the case or not. Personally IMO, I would want to eliminate issues I "COULD" do something about first. The start looking into what I would have less control over.

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      We have a very healthy kohaku female that does this at dusk a couple times. It looks like it is either doing a mating ritual (she is full of eggs) or acting playfully. She acts completely normal and has never had any issues. Its been in the pond for 5 years. I don't know if yours has any issue, but if it is doing all day long there is probably something going on with it.

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      If it started a month ago, (mating season) it could be showing signs of getting ready. Has this female dropped her eggs yet? My Kohaku is ready and going to be pulled out to mate tonite. I was just thinking that this might be a mating ritual for the males.

    10. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      Does she swim the same way as she did in the 600 gallon tank? I am wondering if it's an issue with the swim bladder.
      I didn't notice her swimming this way in the 600 gallon tank until I introduced her into my pond. Within 1 hour, she was breaching the surface and blowing bubbles out of her gills. I'm thinking it could be swim bladder as well.

      Course of Action based on all your comments:
      1. Treat pond with ProformC, Prazi and then wait 10 days and treat with Dilimin for fish lice(covering all areas)
      2. Fish have been spawing last 3 days. Let's hope this might be part of the ritual.
      3. If she continues this behaviour, then I will take other actions to have her taken out and checked. See if I can have someone come here to scope and check her over.

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      Hi Debicraig
      One of my friends koi had this problem & after tacking 3 scrapes ( from the gill,belly & tail) I could not find anything under the microscope.As a precaution I treated the pond with pertasium permanganate at a light dose 2 grams per 450 gal.I did 3 treatments in total over a period of 2weeks.Im not a koi vet but this treatment which is for flukes & parasites didn't fix this problem.I feel that the koi has a problem with its stability in the water hence why it takes a glop of air.I feel that it has a problem with its swim bladder.

    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by DebiCraig View Post
      I didn't notice her swimming this way in the 600 gallon tank until I introduced her into my pond. Within 1 hour, she was breaching the surface and blowing bubbles out of her gills. I'm thinking it could be swim bladder as well.

      Course of Action based on all your comments:
      1. Treat pond with ProformC, Prazi and then wait 10 days and treat with Dilimin for fish lice(covering all areas)
      2. Fish have been spawing last 3 days. Let's hope this might be part of the ritual.
      3. If she continues this behaviour, then I will take other actions to have her taken out and checked. See if I can have someone come here to scope and check her over.
      Lice? Visible?

      My guess for what its worth is gill problems. I'd try a Chloramine T dip for parasites and gill disease.

    13. #13
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      I too have a koi that's been doing this for the last two summers I've had it but only during the summer months... and I too live in Michigan. My Kumonryu breaches like a real Orca but only when waters are warmer and when its not been fed in a while otherwise its probably the healthiest koi in our pond never having any issues and always a hefty appetite... (actually all the koi are healthy, active and with really good appetites). It swims perfectly normal and is quite agile at feeding time. At night it "sleeps" near the bottom with the rest of the pack. Its been through all kinds of pond treatments in the past (Proform C, Prazi, Diminlin, PP, etc) yet the behavior continues. It may breach 6 times in an hour or not once all day long but on average I'd say I'll observe 3 to 5 breaches in a day during the summer... whenever we hear a splash its always the same koi, none of the others breach, ever. We used to think it was going after bugs flying over the water but who knows... we've just become accustomed to the behavior. This koi has had no problems surviving our Michigan winters thus far... we are western lower-peninsula (Reed City). IF it ever has any health problems in the future where I have to net it and put it under I will definitely check out the gills for obstructions but so far its been so darn healthy I don't see the point. Debi... with the number of people on this forum who've had koi display the behavior and have no horror stories to tell, I wouldn't be stressing too much (yes, I've noticed this topic pop up more than a couple times in the short time I've been on the forum).
      Last edited by monomer; 07-08-2013 at 11:27 AM.
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      Sounds like swim bladder problem, when they have this they seem like like they can not stay at the top of the water to long and go back down to the bottom sorry to here this about your koi

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      Quote Originally Posted by cindy View Post
      Lice? Visible?

      My guess for what its worth is gill problems. I'd try a Chloramine T dip for parasites and gill disease.
      No visible fish lice -- so Dilimin will be last resort.

    16. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by monomer View Post
      I too have a koi that's been doing this for the last two summers I've had it but only during the summer months... and I too live in Michigan. My Kumonryu breaches like a real Orca but only when waters are warmer and when its not been fed in a while otherwise its probably the healthiest koi in our pond never having any issues and always a hefty appetite... (actually all the koi are healthy, active and with really good appetites). It swims perfectly normal and is quite agile at feeding time. At night it "sleeps" near the bottom with the rest of the pack. Its been through all kinds of pond treatments in the past (Proform C, Prazi, Diminlin, PP, etc) yet the behavior continues. It may breach 6 times in an hour or not once all day long but on average I'd say I'll observe 3 to 5 breaches in a day during the summer... whenever we hear a splash its always the same koi, none of the others breach, ever. We used to think it was going after bugs flying over the water but who knows... we've just become accustomed to the behavior. This koi has had no problems surviving our Michigan winters thus far... we are western lower-peninsula (Reed City). IF it ever has any health problems in the future where I have to net it and put it under I will definitely check out the gills for obstructions but so far its been so darn healthy I don't see the point. Debi... with the number of people on this forum who've had koi display the behavior and have no horror stories to tell, I wouldn't be stressing too much (yes, I've noticed this topic pop up more than a couple times in the short time I've been on the forum).
      I feel much better and will not stress out too much. I was more worried about our Michigan weathers than anything else! Sounds like a few of us have a fish or two with these symptoms. She's feisty, swims around happy as can be, first one up to eat and looks very healthy and is growing. I will get pics of them this weekend if I can. Thanks for everyone's advice and help!

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      Quote Originally Posted by jimmyjammer View Post
      Sounds like swim bladder problem, when they have this they seem like like they can not stay at the top of the water to long and go back down to the bottom sorry to here this about your koi
      Well, let's see how she does for the next month or two -- I'm assuming if it's a swim bladder problem -- there is nothing that can be done. If it is a swim bladder problem, could it have developed from her growing up in a 600 gallon tank? Swimming around in circles for 1 1/2 years?

    18. #18
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      I was hoping that someone would post a miracle cure by now!
      If it was a bladder issue, wouldn't they not be able to swim right?

      But my tancho sanke does this same thing... last weekend I took several scrapes but I couldn't find a single bug. Gills looked fine,
      I couldn't see anything lodged in them, yet he still does it several times a day/night and none of the other 5 do it. I added a couple
      of 6" air stones w/a medo 45 that boils the water all night to see if it maybe was low oxygen issue. It's only been a day, but doesn't seem
      to have made any difference.
      He doesn't appear in any distress at all, eats fine, schools with the other fish, but just gulps air quite often.


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      For them to do this, something is irritating the gills. It is quite common for a fish to do this immediately following eating, as crumbs from the food will get into the gills as they eat and this is a way to wash that out. It is also quite common with flukes or other parasites in the gills, but in that case it is not just limited to feeding time. If it is just one fish and not limited to feeding time, with 8000 gallons of water, I think I would use prazi or similar in a qt on the one fish, with a buddy. If it becomes a regular thing with the rest of the fish then it becomes time to treat the whole pond, but the expense is up there.
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      I was hoping that someone would post a miracle cure by now!
      If it was a bladder issue, wouldn't they not be able to swim right?

      But my tancho sanke does this same thing... last weekend I took several scrapes but I couldn't find a single bug. Gills looked fine,
      I couldn't see anything lodged in them, yet he still does it several times a day/night and none of the other 5 do it. I added a couple
      of 6" air stones w/a medo 45 that boils the water all night to see if it maybe was low oxygen issue. It's only been a day, but doesn't seem
      to have made any difference.
      He doesn't appear in any distress at all, eats fine, schools with the other fish, but just gulps air quite often.


      Just thought I'd admit to being part of the club.
      hmmm...ok..treated with ProformC and Prazi.....this Koi is still doing this...Will treat with Dillimin after 10 days...but, I'm thinking it's not parisites...and IF it's a swim bladder issue, I have to agree with you...wouldn't they have problems with swimming? This Koi is happy as can be! Just the breaching and then bubbles coming from it's gills....and then occasionally going to the bottom to rest......you would think if it's serious, they would be showing some signs of destress...not seeing this....seems like this is common with many of you.. and she is getting bigger in size, no signs of ulcers or any other issues....

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