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    Thread: Infamious white bumps?

    1. #1
      lerchcon's Avatar
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      Infamious white bumps?

      Well the 300 gallon tank i have set up since april last year still has same fish from blackwater and no new additions all from same source. Koi and sarassa in tank run with es2500 to sand and gravel woth 2 12" air stones 24 hours on pump and air pump. Just noticed the whote spots on three koi bit none of the others are infected have done two water regulary as required generally every three days i flush 10 gallons on sixth day i dump ten percent becuase tank is only 300 gallon QT tank i keep it clean and water ants with waste. Anyhow i know season weather changes so does water temp. Outside temp has been weird 60 at night and 80-100 during day. Then one day it was 105 and next day its back to 85 water temp i am not sure of but seemed cool like normal since pump is large.

      Ph is and has always been morning around 8 night 8.2
      Kh is 180 like normal for vegas water
      Gh is always around 120 as always
      Ammonia zero checked every week and has been zero since cycle completed last april
      Nitite same as ammonia
      Nitrate same as ammonia

      Just noticed spots wondering if it is ich or ? I have proform C and thats it was wondering if a dose will cure this im praying it will at least there already in Qt also how much should i use? Will one dose being small tank 300 gallon rubbermaid and 55 gallon sand and gravel be good with on water change 24 hours after dose? There is always lots of air and i dont use salt so no salt as i know you cant mix them. Or do you think a salt dose on pond will work. Heres the pics. Thanks for looking

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      Orange fish on body fins and tails
      Other on face

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      Black fish on mouth at nose area hard to see though

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    2. #2
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      Hi Lerchcon
      Its Carp pox and affects fish up to 5 years old and is viral (in the fish ) ,but you can help fish that it over takes and makes weak ,I have used over 38 years of koi keeping and breeding acriflavin and salt at 0.5ozs per gallon as a pond treatment with good airation but I would suggest a Qtank also for affected fish ,as you need a larger dose of salt to clear this up on fish before it gets hold ,I use 1.5ozs per gallon and only for three days ,this dehyrates the lumps and day two or three splits them and reduces them ,then keep at 1ozs per gallon a acurate level must be miantained for thee to 4 weeks so a good hydromiter to tell you is paramount and always full oxygen air disc's on or large air stones .
      It may clear up in two weeks so change water every two days and a min of 25% per two days there after !.
      this treatment is alo good for ectoparasites like Trichodina and salt is also use full for Ick as its not salt resistant ,also its small grains of white dots on a fish so quite differant to this waxy lumps you have on tail fins and body ,white spot is also better treated with Malachite Green or salt .
      its always good to scope fish and ident the problem and is quite easy now with a usb microscope and a laptop by the pond ,if you have one .
      At any one time and as soon as a fish has a weak mucus coat the bad pathogens get in after parasite attack ,and also fungi and this can cause problems like tumbling disese
      were the fish looses all balance ,this is often missed as a fungi infection and passed off as a food blockage or such !.
      as Ichtyophonus a affected fish will feel like sand paper simular to a male in breeding condition but this fungi also affects internal organs and affects the swim bladder ,there is no affective treatment against it !.
      so we must always keep a close eye on our stock and have the best infomation at all times as treating for the wrong thing will do nothing !.
      I recommend the koi doctor by Maarten Lammens it covers most koi problems and is a good one for the shelf for any koi keeper to keep and have healthy stock !.
      Last edited by wayne1; 05-19-2013 at 02:53 AM.

    3. #3
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      Thanks for chiming in, but won't a dose of proform C do the same thing as the salt? I had this happen to me last year on the main pond and Kent Wallace was able to swing by and give me the chemicals I needed becuase I needed to cure right away and didn't have time to wait for shipping.

      Koi disease is so hard to tell what to do so many have different recommendations as to what they would do, I remember reading several posts by a member saying there is no carp pox that has ever been seen I think it was ZAC and then there are other members saying it is very common? And what is acriflavin?

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      Hi Lerchcon
      Acriflavin is a old and well tested medication that is yellow in colour and treats Protozoan ectoparasites ,bacterial pathogens and fungi !,some combinations of malachite green and acriflavin are commercially available ! they turn the water a green fluoresant green !.
      Its a ideal Quarantine treatment and is safe to use with salt .
      It's all down to choice and what works ,as I have never seen or used Proform C !,and Kent Wallace I don't know ! so if this is what he recommends then that's fine ! by me as there are many new things on the market and we must embrace them if they work and see good results and its good you called in sombody with health experiance and the supplies as acting quickly is paramount to our koi's health .
      And I agree as many recommendations can be bad if the person really has no experiance of koi keeping ,and many internet web myths out there ! so its good to take advice from a health pro /vet in your area and country !.
      This is a viral infection and I have seen it in many forms from light to severe in koi and carp farms in Uk and on fish I have kept and treated for this ,is a common problem when fish are stressed and in this country coming out in winter to spring and summer fish can get this quite severely and need treatment I have only found over 38year's its best treated with salt at a heavy dose rate along with acriflavin at normal dose and good airation to good effect ,from my own experiance and have never lost a fish to it .
      but if left untreated can be a problem later down the line and can pass to fry .

    5. #5
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      Proform C doesn't work for carp pox. Salt and acriflavin maybe the only solution. However, sometimes new fish is cheaper than treatment..

    6. #6
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      These are all baby koi so I would like to try and save them, the only thing is I am hoping to find the chemical local so I won't have to order from online and wait any longer, but they are in a 300 gallon tank right now so I am not in a panic or anything, I just want to make sure I treat ASAP. How much salt for 300 gallons, as I am not filling the 300 gallon tank all the way I figure 3 inches from top is about 50 gallons add in the sand and gravel filter and it makes it 300?

      Even if fish were to God forbid die, or I get rid of them wouldn't the parasites be in the water afterwards or lodged in the algae?

      Kent hasn't been on the site for some time so I am not sure what's up so I don't want to bother him instead I will bother the people who read all these posts....lol

      If I were to use the acriflavine I just searched local pet stores and couldn't find anything, is there a quicker response where I am not draining so much water everyday, I don't have a hospital tank to treat those infected, but if they have been in the same tank with the other fish shouldn't I treat the whole tank to make sure they all don't end up infected?
      Last edited by lerchcon; 05-19-2013 at 05:46 AM.

    7. #7
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      Hi Lerchcon
      well salt first along with lots of air while you wait for your delivery of acriflavin .
      so salt at 0.5ozs first =9.38lbs uk for 300gallons uk .then second week add another 9.38lbs this will give you 1ozs per gallon .
      when you get your acriflavin add the dose as directed to 300 gallons on day 4 add another 4.69lbs of salt ,bringing you upto 1.5ozs per gallon !
      then on day 7 change 25% of the water and next day 8 again - 25% water change ,test salt level and then maintain at 1ozs per gallon for the next three weeks !in two weeks you should see the carp pox split and shrink and disapear off the skin ,after this happens change water at 25% per week until back to zero level salt and yopu back in fresh water ,keep a check on water quality especially (nitrie NO2 levels ).
      By this time fish should be back to normal health.
      This method of Quarantine has worked for me over the last 38 years ! with good sucsess in getting fish clean and free of exsessive carp pox ,also this helps against ectoparasites and Ick ,bacterial infections,bad pathogens ,and fungi and fungi infections known as tumbling disese ,also I must stress when using any salt and medication a good KH and GH should be maintained as well so a level of 6-8d KH and GH 12-18 OR HIGHER ! as this will keep a better level of oxygen in the water and any chemicals will be less toxic as in softwater they become more toxic and less airation is not good for sick fish to recover so this is a number one when treating fish ,this can be done with sodium bicarbonate in a tempory tank or the use of oyster shells or better still coral and limestone for Gh Buffing up .
      keep us posted how you get on ,oh and always use Cookin salt it has less adatives and disolve easily also always disolve well befor fish come in contact with salt with a good flow of water and a stocking to place it in as it disolves slowly or mix well in a large bucket before adding to tank or vat.

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      http://www.atlantakoiclub.org/KHA%20...on/CarpPox.pdf

      Here is a pretty good read on carp pox. There is no cure ,there is no drug or chemical that gets read of it. It well recede and waxy bumps well disappear,when your water warms up.
      Last edited by kdh; 05-19-2013 at 03:43 PM.

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