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    Thread: Growout Kohaku #13

    1. #21
      fishin4cars's Avatar
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      Whoa, I did not expect that coming at all! I've got a 3 year old Purdin that the Beni is slowly falling apart but nothing like that. Your getting a LOT more growth than I am, My Kohaku I got in the grow out isn't growing nearly as fast, maybe gained 3" through the summer. But the beni seems to be improving and the shiro is slowly getting more white. We still have some further growing season and should be able to feed through most of the winter so maybe this one will catch up a little through the winter months.

    2. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by fishin4cars View Post
      Whoa, I did not expect that coming at all!


      I'll be sure to take some pics after the winter months before spring and more feeding, to see if and how it changes.
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "I know what I have to do now. I got to keep breathing. Because tomorrow the sun will rise.
      Who knows what the tide could bring." --Tom Hanks in Cast Away

    3. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      Honestly, as soon as it started to grow...
      I mentioned him to Dick Benbow, and I think I made the cardinal sin of picking it because of what it looked like
      at the time, as opposed to what it might look like in the future... youngsters beni usually needs to be below the lateral line.

      As always, I'd love to hear other opinions about additional clues of what I could have seen to predict his future (or lack there of )
      But in any event it's why I participate in grow outs... live and learn.
      youngsters beni usually needs to be below lateral line? Are not kohaku judged for having no beni below lateral line?

    4. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      youngsters beni usually needs to be below lateral line? Are not kohaku judged for having no beni below lateral line?
      I am guessing what Steve meant was that youngster kohaku needs to have bigger pattern to account for future growth.

      The issue with this particular kohaku is mainly that beni is disappearing/breaking. I don't think a bigger pattern would have made any difference on this fish. From the original pics, I would guess the kiwa did look too finished but the hindsight is 20/20.
      Last edited by abuchi123; 10-07-2013 at 08:13 PM. Reason: fix typo

    5. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by abuchi123 View Post
      I am guessing what Steve meant was that youngster kohaku needs to have bigger pattern to account for future growth.

      The issue with this particular kohaku is mainly that beni is disappearing/breaking. I don't think a bigger pattern would have many any difference on this fish. From the original pics, I would guess the kiwa did look too finished but the hindsight is 20/20.
      Actually, what I "heard" was that the pattern should extend atleast to the lateral line on a youngster, but I could have misunderstood for that matter.
      I think the theory being that the pattern would consolidate on the mature koi well above the lateral line in years to come.

      But I agree, I'm not sure if it would have made a difference in this guys case.
      --Steve
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    6. #26
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      Yes Tosai should have beni to the lateral line and is preferable a little below. If I remember right as the koi gets older the beni pulls up? Don't know the age this should happen. I have seen many high quality tosai kohaku were the beni is at the lateral line.

      I agree this koi had other issues than just lateral line for it's failing.

      Steve what is interesting to me is both your koi you posted have beni issues?

    7. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by abuchi123 View Post
      I am guessing what Steve meant was that youngster kohaku needs to have bigger pattern to account for future growth.

      The issue with this particular kohaku is mainly that beni is disappearing/breaking. I don't think a bigger pattern would have many any difference on this fish. From the original pics, I would guess the kiwa did look too finished but the hindsight is 20/20.
      You are correct, the size of the pattern has nothing to do with this Koi losing it's Beni. Most Beni will recede a little bit when a Koi grows but not so much that it should be an issue. You can see the issues with the Beni, if you look at the Kiwa, in the first pictures. Mr. Sakai calls this saw tooth Beni.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    8. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      Yes Tosai should have beni to the lateral line and is preferable a little below. If I remember right as the koi gets older the beni pulls up? Don't know the age this should happen. I have seen many high quality tosai kohaku were the beni is at the lateral line.

      I agree this koi had other issues than just lateral line for it's failing.

      Steve what is interesting to me is both your koi you posted have beni issues?
      Actually the Beni does not pull up but as the Koi gains girth and size it seems to move up because of the additional bulk on the Koi. The bulk of the Koi causes the Koi to widen and the pattern begins to go from vertical to a little more horizontal, if that makes sense.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    9. #29
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      Russ, Steve is getting some large growth in somewhat cold water over a short time. Could this be an issue with beni?

    10. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      Actually the Beni does not pull up but as the Koi gains girth and size it seems to move up because of the additional bulk on the Koi. The bulk of the Koi causes the Koi to widen and the pattern begins to go from vertical to a little more horizontal, if that makes sense.
      Yes it does and that is what I was taught by you from an earlier posting sometime ago.

    11. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      Steve what is interesting to me is both your koi you posted have beni issues?


      I took pictures of everybody and some to enter VKS, so I don't want to show my whole hand.
      But here's some more with issues I think... Maybe it's just from a lot of growth?

      It's probably from my pond design, based on Onishi's.
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      --Steve
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      "I know what I have to do now. I got to keep breathing. Because tomorrow the sun will rise.
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    12. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      Yes it does and that is what I was taught by you from an earlier posting sometime ago.
      No, I never said that Beni pulls up, what I said and still say, is that Beni pulls forward as it develops.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    13. #33
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      Also he/she lost it's beauty mark on the face? I'm curious what you guys mean by it has color "below the lateral line" sorry if it's a dumb question. I had the prettiest blackest showa about 5" long... now it's like an ugly tancho with a yellowish white :l Live and learn.
      BTW,.... I still think your kahaku is a good lookin fish
      -Mike

    14. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      Russ, Steve is getting some large growth in somewhat cold water over a short time. Could this be an issue with beni?
      It's not from the growth, Steve even said the Beni started to break down as soon as it started to grow. This one has "hard" Beni.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    15. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post


      I took pictures of everybody and some to enter VKS, so I don't want to show my whole hand.
      But here's some more with issues I think... Maybe it's just from a lot of growth?

      It's probably from my pond design, based on Onishi's.

      I don't think it's from growth.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    16. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      No, I never said that Beni pulls up, what I said and still say, is that Beni pulls forward as it develops.
      I was referring to your statement. I should have taken the time and explained as you did. My bad.

    17. #37
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      It's not from the growth, Steve even said the Beni started to break down as soon as it started to grow. This one has "hard" Beni.
      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      I don't think it's from growth.
      Good info, thanks Russ!

      Might be a case of better quality fish (or atleast a better picker) is needed.
      --Steve
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      Who knows what the tide could bring." --Tom Hanks in Cast Away

    18. #38
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      Good night it's past my bedtime. I like that last one you posted.

    19. #39
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      Quote Originally Posted by rifraf View Post
      Also he/she lost it's beauty mark on the face? I'm curious what you guys mean by it has color "below the lateral line" sorry if it's a dumb question. I had the prettiest blackest showa about 5" long... now it's like an ugly tancho with a yellowish white :l Live and learn.
      BTW,.... I still think your kahaku is a good lookin fish
      -Mike



      That is a trout, BTW.

    20. #40
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      Quote Originally Posted by abuchi123 View Post


      That is a trout, BTW.
      Ok thanks for clearing that up Abuchi...! :D
      So is it better to have BIG beni spots to hopefully stay as they get bigger and older? As Steve is saying... have spots which are big enough to extend down past or at least to the lateral line? I just recently started researching "what to look for when purchasing a small koi" Unless I'm not understanding correctly.. You want a koi with it's patterns and colors deep in the skin. Like to be under a few layers of off white to "come up" later? Sorry if I'm hijacking Steve's thread. How about just fixing the fish Steve? like with some waterproof fingernail polish? JUST KIDDING.... Sorry the fish has gone south!
      -Mike

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