Dry Stacked Block, Surface Bonding Cement, and Xypex C-1000 Admix Quarantine Tank

[Russell Peters]

Woh, alot of pressure ... maybe? SBC is the super extra strength polident of concrete, correct?

Maybe...notice how some of the block wall ruptured...

[crsublette]

I can not deny ya ... it does look quite rough.

[crsublette]

Russel, looking at the last, bottom, picture there. What was the concrete compound the person used?

[crsublette]

Laying my head on my desk sideways so I can properly orient to view the picture...

Did some of those cinder blocks actually bust in half ??

[Russell Peters]

Did some of those cinder blocks actually bust in half ??

Yes, because they were not filled properly. Here is the whole thread, you like to read...

https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...+wall+failures

[Russell Peters]

Russel, looking at the last, bottom, picture there. What was the concrete compound the person used?

I think it was type S mortar...

[crsublette]

Aaahh, so there might just be hope here for the mighty SBC to shine!!

If it is not the "compressive, axial loading" pressure that we're talking about? I think it is though, but I unsure.

[Russell Peters]

Aaahh, so there might just be hope here for the mighty SBC to shine!!

If it is not the "compressive, axial loading" pressure that we're talking about? I think it is though, but I unsure.

I am OK with being wrong...

[Zac Penn]

well I seem to know when I read quote[ The only thing that a mortared concrete block wall has over an SBC coated block wall is vertical compression strength.]
that vertical strength is needed in a above ground pond......


as for the test.....not you,,,you'd fix it..................I'd want a nuetral party testing it ,,,with 2 cameras ones pointed at the tank and one pointed at you,,,so we can see your look
.....no matter what it is a hokey build that makes little to no sense,,,why anyone would go threw all that effort and not spend the extra what $15 in mortar and maybe 2 hr extra labor.......it isn't a good contracting practice........................andI'd be personally ambarrassed to even post something like that.....................alot of people having lots a questions going threw their heads right now,,,,,what is that kid up to now............going from a pretty dang well design fitration sytems to building half butt ponds to save a couple bucks........................Zac ,,,people are thinking what short cuts is he taking when building his other stuff.......


or is this all smoke screen and the next thing ya know you'll be selling and acting as a licensed applicator for this product.........................brings me back to the beginning of the ceramedia threads.................kinda the same flow going here????


guess time will see

Steve you are the most paranoid person I have ever dealt with. You probably believe the Newtown school shooting was a conspiracy along with 9-11. If people don't like the experiments that I do and it effects my business then that is my issue to work out. I don't need you telling me that everything I do is being examined. I personally think bio-ball filtration is hokey so it is fine for you to think what I do is the same.

[Zac Penn]

Here is what happened to another block wall pond that was not properly reinforced and filled with concrete. Would SBC have saved this???

YES! I think SBC would have kept that wall together. That corner broke apart due to tensile forces...NOT compression forces. The fiberglass fibers combined within the cement are much stronger than the bond between type-s mortar and a dusty concrete block. I truly doubt that each block was sprayed down with water before having the mortar slapped onto it so the bond between the two is not very strong. The dry-stacked block wall is to be sprayed down with water before the SBC is applied so a stronger bond is achieved between the block and cement and the strength of the coating is greater than that of mortar.

Zac

[Russell Peters]

YES! I think SBC would have kept that wall together. That corner broke apart due to tensile forces...NOT compression forces. The fiberglass fibers combined within the cement are much stronger than the bond between type-s mortar and a dusty concrete block. I truly doubt that each block was sprayed down with water before having the mortar slapped onto it so the bond between the two is not very strong. The dry-stacked block wall is to be sprayed down with water before the SBC is applied so a stronger bond is achieved between the block and cement and the strength of the coating is greater than that of mortar.

Zac

Cool, I guess we'll have to wait and see...

[crsublette]

I'm really looking forward to how this comes along. Glad you're doing this Zac. Ya read my mind with this thread. I have been wondering how well SBC and xypex would work. I was kind of thinking of doing a mix like this as well.

What product of SBC did ya go with? hyperlink would be awesome.

[pearlharborday]

Evidently the acrylic fortifier is the "Devil" when it comes to Xypex. I am not using anything other than what comes in the bag of SBC. That is going to be my first plan of attack. I am going to use the Admix dose based on 30% cement weight per bag of SBC (based on the technical data sheets) and rely on that as the only water proofing agent in this mix. I am going to rely solely on the structural integrity of the SBC to hold my walls together (they will be 7 courses tall but only 5 courses truly dry stacked). I want to treat the cold joint between the block wall and concrete floor with a 45 degree angle coating of SBC with Admix to keep that joint waterproofed. This is going to be a fun project. If I notice any structural issues because of the SBC then I will be able to drain the water and fill each cell with concrete. If the Xypex doesn't work with the SBC then I will do the stucco coat to help with that. If that doesn't work, then I will go to a paint on liner. Either way with a project this small we are only talking a couple hundred dollars to fix the problem. However IF this does work then it could save thousands of dollars for future customers by avoiding the concrete cost of filling each cell as well as the expense of paint/spray on liners for water proofing.

Zac

ZAc given your history,,,,my presumption isn't paranoia


look at what you said,,,,,,,,,,,,you could save future costumers thousands........

well now if you talking thousands you're talking big.......


and you aint going to be doing big,,,,legally with inspections ,,,that is my point from the get go...............florida building code is pretty standerd ...

no engineer would put their @$$,,on the line with that ,,,and no building plan reviewer would sign off on it ..........period


that's my point you are a professional ,,,,,,

[Russell Peters]

ZAc given your history,,,,my presumption isn't paranoia


look at what you said,,,,,,,,,,,,you could save future costumers thousands........

well now if you talking thousands you're talking big.......


and you aint going to be doing big,,,,legally with inspections ,,,that is my point from the get go...............florida building code is pretty standerd ...

no engineer would put their @$$,,on the line with that ,,,and no building plan reviewer would sign off on it ..........period


that's my point you are a professional ,,,,,,

I also don't see anywhere where any of the SBC manufacturers recommend "not" filling the cells with rebar and concrete in this application either...

[pearlharborday]

Zac if you really are into saving your customers money....do what all pool contractors do,,,,they hook a 1st. with a engineer or 2 ,,,and work a deal on some basic plans and sign offs ,,and set fees for basic changes

2nd.hook up woth a couple good concrete sub contractots who are licensed ,,have all the equipment and do this all the time and can do what they do best,,,and cheaper because they have already done all the leg work of getting the good deals on the cement,pumps and steel.....plus they already have relations with the area inspectors ................that leaves you to what you do best,,,and what you can control ...the rough and final plumbing and building the filtration system ..............everyone one wins then

[icu2]

I also don't see anywhere where any of the SBC manufacturers recommend "not" filling the cells with rebar and concrete in this application either...

Not about filling cells specifically, but wondered if this might apply to your question... this is from the a bag of SBC (Quikwall) I had in the garage:

Blocks should be laid on a firm and even foundation. Set the first (only the first) course of blocks in a bed of either QUIKWALL Surface Bonding Cement or QUIKRETE Mortar Mix. This layer must be set plumb and level. NO MORTAR IS USED IN ANY VERTICAL JOINT AND ONLY IN THE HORIZONTAL JOINT BETWEEN FOUNDATION AND FIRST COURSE.

The caps are theirs, not mine.

[mbrian1226]

I'm pretty sure Zac wouldn't be doing an experiment on a customers pond. After reading lots of his other threads and builds I'm sure he knows what he's doing. He also doesn't seem like the type that would cut corners. This thread is a good example why I would never post any pictures or information of my own work on here due to certain people tearing everything apart and telling others they don't know what the hell their doing. Dealers on this forum that have big ego's and are always criticizing peoples builds and ideas I will never give any business to. Like ICU2 said, "did Zac have to ask for permission before he did this experiment?"

[benr7132]

I'm pretty sure Zac wouldn't be doing an experiment on a customers pond. After reading lots of his other threads and builds I'm sure he knows what he's doing. He also doesn't seem like the type that would cut corners. This thread is a good example why I would never post any pictures or information of my own work on here due to certain people tearing everything apart and telling others they don't know what the hell their doing. Dealers on this forum that have big ego's and are always criticizing peoples builds and ideas I will never give any business to. Like ICU2 said, "did Zac have to ask for permission before he did this experiment?"

I am also shocked by the vitriol on this thread. Makes me think twice about posting more related to my build. Advice, support, and responses to questions asked are great. Attacks are not.

[icu2]

I've requested that posters review and edit their posts that aren't on the topic of the materials or methods being used in the build of the original poster.
I'll edit if need be. Personal attacks and/or opinions of business practices aren't constructive or appropriate in a construction thread.

Thank you.

[Russell Peters]

Not about filling cells specifically, but wondered if this might apply to your question... this is from the a bag of SBC (Quikwall) I had in the garage:

Blocks should be laid on a firm and even foundation. Set the first (only the first) course of blocks in a bed of either QUIKWALL Surface Bonding Cement or QUIKRETE Mortar Mix. This layer must be set plumb and level. NO MORTAR IS USED IN ANY VERTICAL JOINT AND ONLY IN THE HORIZONTAL JOINT BETWEEN FOUNDATION AND FIRST COURSE.

The caps are theirs, not mine.

Steve, this has nothing to do with what I am talking about. This is referring to the mortar that goes between the blocks,i.e. the joints, I am talking about the rebar and CONCRETE that goes inside of the cells that will give the wall it's structural integrity. Also, everything I have found about doing these dry stack walls does not have anything to do with what he is doing. He is creating a vessel that holds a lot of water and there is a lot of stress placed on the walls. All of the instructions I have read were for walls for a house or garage that are free from lateral stresses.