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    Thread: Changes - What Will Happen?

    1. #41
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Usually the deeper red Beni is an indicator of "harder" Beni. This is beni that is not elastic so, as the Koi grows, it won't stretch and it tends to fall apart. This is not a hard fast rule though. Koi with this hard Beni can, and do, keep their Beni. The lifespan of the Beni is shorter though as it finishes sooner. If this type of beni does not break down it can look very nice for many years.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

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    2. #42
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Here is the same Showa after it's first summer in the mud. It lost a little Beni and caqme out at 14". What I did notice about it was the quality of the skin and the bone structure was impressive. Still, it didn't have much of a Showa pattern so, I thought, study Koi.
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      Last edited by Russell Peters; 09-08-2011 at 07:16 PM.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    3. #43
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      It stayed in the tanks at the store for the next 6 months and then went back to mud as a 15" Nisai.
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      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    4. #44
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      After the mud spa it came out at 18". it lost a little more Beni, still not enough but then I thought it would be fun if the Beni on the body went away and the beni on the head stayed.
      Every thing was better on this Showa. The body, the skin, the Beni and the Sumi. The Sumi glowed a deep lacquer black.
      One day someone came into the store, saw it and said, "I have to have that fish". So, being a dealer, I sold it and my study Koi was no more. I was quite pleased with the changes though and it was a good learning experience.
      The conformation on this Koi is very nice.
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      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    5. #45
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      Here is an example of very hard Beni that did break down in the mud. The nice thing about the mud is that it can bring out the best, or the worst, sooner. If this Showa had not gone in the mud it may have taken years for the Beni to fade.
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      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    6. #46
      Dravin is offline Senior Member
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      that's crazy. That happened in 1 year in the mud pond?

    7. #47
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dravin View Post
      that's crazy. That happened in 1 year in the mud pond?
      No, 12 weeks in a mud pond.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    8. #48
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      I would not have thought it was the same fish. That is totally amazing.
      Last edited by KatieVL; 09-11-2011 at 04:43 PM.

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      "Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." -Dalai Lama

    9. #49
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      I feel like I'm getting dumber because there are no updates!

    10. #50
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      No, 12 weeks in a mud pond.
      This quote from Super Kindai stays with me when I consider mud pond fish.

      ... a mud pond is not a magic pond but it pull out both good and bad untold things that a koi carry individually and genetically.
      Thanks Russ for sharing the good and the bad with us.

      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

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    11. #51
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      More lessons please

      K.O.I.


      Start something you will never finish...A koi pond
      "Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." -Dalai Lama

    12. #52
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      Beni does not have to be hard Beni to fail. In fact, as I said before, hard Beni doesn't always fall apart. It can last for years and look very nice but it's lifespan is usually not as long and its look isn't conisdered as beautiful as the softer, persimmon colored Beni. Soft Beni is not a guarantee either. No matter what the color of the Beni it must have Nerikomi, an evenness throughout the entire Hiban plate.
      Take a look at this Showa and its Hiban plate. See how it is uneven and has thinner areas where the Beni seems to be breaking up. Now, if the Beni was consolidating you might find these thinner areas at the back of the Hiban plate as elastic Beni moves toward the front of the Koi. If this were the case then the Beni may not be weak. Here you find thin spots all over the Hiban plate. This is an exagerated example and you could have a Hiban plate with one or two small areas of the same indicators and the same failure can, and will occur.
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      Last edited by Russell Peters; 09-12-2011 at 10:15 AM.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    13. #53
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      Here is the same Showa after 12 weaks in the mud. The failure is as expected.
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      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    14. #54
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      Can you guess what may happen with the Beni on this Showa?
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      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    15. #55
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      Here is the same Showa after 12 weaks in the mud. The failure is as expected.
      Now, did someone walk into your shop and demand to have this one as well?
      -Rain

      :I CAN'T BRING THIS SHIP INTO TRTUGA ALL BY ME ONESIES, SAVVY?:

    16. #56
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      Can you guess what may happen with the Beni on this Showa?
      Ugh, it looks pretty ****** to me.
      I have no idea whats going on with the nose.
      Beni looks uneven throughout the plate and NOT just the back of the plate.

      I'd say that the beni will fail.
      -Rain

      :I CAN'T BRING THIS SHIP INTO TRTUGA ALL BY ME ONESIES, SAVVY?:

    17. #57
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      It looks to me as the beni will fade on the front of the head. Some of the beni will disappear on the first plate but that extension off the back of the first plate looks like it may break away. The sumi may cover the weak beni where it fades across the neck because even though the beni looks weak in that area, sumi is also coming up. I don't know what kind of pictures you have, but if you just have one over the next 6 months and it goes into a mud pond, most of the sumi will fade away as it grows and the fish will look terrible until the sumi comes back.

    18. #58
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by rainblood View Post
      Now, did someone walk into your shop and demand to have this one as well?
      No, but I have a customer, with a 60,000 gallon pond I built, that takes all of our "special needs" Koi.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    19. #59
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dravin View Post
      It looks to me as the beni will fade on the front of the head. Some of the beni will disappear on the first plate but that extension off the back of the first plate looks like it may break away. The sumi may cover the weak beni where it fades across the neck because even though the beni looks weak in that area, sumi is also coming up. I don't know what kind of pictures you have, but if you just have one over the next 6 months and it goes into a mud pond, most of the sumi will fade away as it grows and the fish will look terrible until the sumi comes back.
      I don't know if this will help but this was a 9" Tosai whan I took this picture and it was the day it went into the mud. 5/30/2010.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    20. #60
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      Quote Originally Posted by rainblood View Post
      Ugh, it looks pretty ****** to me.
      I have no idea whats going on with the nose.
      Beni looks uneven throughout the plate and NOT just the back of the plate.

      I'd say that the beni will fail.
      The beni on the Showa wasn't weak at all. This was a "trick" question as, sometimes, there are conditions that affect what the beni looks like and it can give you a false impression of what is going on. One of the biggest factors is the time of season. Weather, hot or cold weather, can change what a Koi looks like, very dramtically, in a short period of time. All of the areas that look weak are where the Sumi receded. When Sumi grows, and blocks out Beni, the Beni doesn't get to see the sun and will appear faded where the Sumi was. Take a look at the after picture.
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