Changes - What Will Happen?

[Russell Peters]

One of the best ways to learn is by seeing as many Koi as you can and watching how they develop. I thought it might be fun to have a thread with nothing but "before and after" pics. Look at each picture and post any observations you may have, good or bad. Not all of the Koi I post will turn out in a good way so have at it. Talk about changes you think might happen with skin, color and conformation. Is the Beni strong or weak, are there issues with the body and is the skin quality good or bad? Try to leave pattern out of it for the time being.
The first one is a 9" Tosai Sanke.

[rainblood]

Its about time

My predictions :
I think the beni will recede leaving only a spot on the tail and a smaller patch on the shoulder. Sumi will also appear on the first plate of beni.
Shoulders look puny, so I don't think it'll get very big.
No idea on skin.

[Dravin]

Here goes nothing...

Skin looks very nice
Pectoral fins may be a little smaller than I'd like
The beni looks good although not the best I've ever seen
I'm not fond of the pattern myself

I'm so bad at judging tosai this small so yeah!

[Russell Peters]

Here goes nothing...

Skin looks very nice
Pectoral fins may be a little smaller than I'd like
The beni looks good although not the best I've ever seen
I'm not fond of the pattern myself

I'm so bad at judging tosai this small so yeah!

Pattern doesn't matter, at this point, please leave it out of the equation for a while.

[Dravin]

Pattern doesn't matter, at this point, please leave it out of the equation for a while.

OK then I think it's nice :-) The quality all around looks nice to me. The beni on the tail may also pull up and create a nice odome as it gets older.

[rainblood]

How long are you going to wait before you tell me that I am right?

[Russell Peters]

How long are you going to wait before you tell me that I am right?

It could be an eternity bub.

[Russell Peters]

Here it is after 10 weeks in the mud at 13". It was a slow grower.

[rainblood]

Here it is after 10 weeks in the mud at 13". It was a slow grower.

Maybe this will help.

Spare me the grief it was done in Paint

[cindy]

Ok you said on the shiro to start with the skin. The white on the back looks nice but not sure what to think about the head.

Do we start with the kohaku pattern first? If the black comes in on the head, I think we're looking at a nicely finished koi (but what the heck do I know)

[Dravin]

Ok you said on the shiro to start with the skin. The white on the back looks nice but not sure what to think about the head.

Do we start with the kohaku pattern first? If the black comes in on the head, I think we're looking at a nicely finished koi (but what the heck do I know)

It's a Sanke, I'm pretty sure you don't want black on the head

[rainblood]

So is the beni finished?
It looks "thicker", but I don't see any more sashi and it looks like it is breaking down near the dorsal area.

[Dravin]

So with this new updated picture, I'm a little worried about what might happen to this koi. The Sashi looks like it's all but gone and I see a few scales toward the back and bridge of the first plate of beni breaking down. I'm jumping ship! Gimme my money back from the purchase! You sold me crap!

[Dravin]

jinx

[cindy]

It's a Sanke, I'm pretty sure you don't want black on the head

Why?

[Dravin]

Why?

Black on the head is not a designed trait on a sanke. It does work ok with some patterns overall, but in general you definitely wouldn't be hoping that your sanke got black on it's head. Breeders try to breed against it. It's sort of like having the entire head covered in sumi for a showa. The desired trait is to have an even mix of red, white, and black. But some showas with heavy sumi on their head will give them a more powerful presence.

[rainblood]

jinx

[Russell Peters]

Maybe this will help.

Spare me the grief it was done in Paint

So far you were entirley wrong, care to guess what happens next? I have another set of pics from the next years growth as well.

[Russell Peters]

Ok you said on the shiro to start with the skin. The white on the back looks nice but not sure what to think about the head.

Do we start with the kohaku pattern first? If the black comes in on the head, I think we're looking at a nicely finished koi (but what the heck do I know)

You should start with the quality of the skin on all Koi, it just happens that we started with Shiro. You always want to look at the skin on the shoulder area as it will tell you the most. On young Koi the skin on the head can stay thin for a while so you can't always judge what will happen by looking at the head. When the skin is thin on the head of a Koi you can see through it to what lies underneath. A lot of time the darker areas you see underneath the skin on the head is the skull and its contents. Pattern is still not important at this point. The idea is to learn to pick quality and know what will happen to it. With an understanding of these things, picking pattern becomes easier.

[Russell Peters]

So is the beni finished?
It looks "thicker", but I don't see any more sashi and it looks like it is breaking down near the dorsal area.

No, it's not finished. When Beni consolidates it comes down from the dorsal fin and forward. By forward I mean that it consolidates from the back of the Hiban plate to the front.