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    Thread: Carp Pox or Lymphocystis?

    1. #1
      Lunatoons's Avatar
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      Unhappy Carp Pox or Lymphocystis?

      Bumps on tail
      We netted, anesthesized and examined my showa yesterday. I've sent these photos to KHA's but thought I would post them here for input.
      These bumps have just shown up in the past week. Koi is otherwise acting normal, eating well, does not flash or seem to be in distress at all. She's about 16" and was becoming a real beauty before this happened.
      These are fleshy sort of hard bumps all along the tail. When I scraped a couple off, she was bleeding underneath, and it seemed like I might be actually tearing the tail, so I stopped. I also noticed a little red streaking on the lower part of the body, almost looks like a scrape.
      So...thinking it might be bacterial, I gave her a shot of Nuflor, put on hydrogen peroxide where the bumps were (but it really didn't bubble much) then iodine. At that point she was waking up, so we put her in the recovery tank without doing any more. Guess I was kind of freaked out about what this could be, so I didn't scrape and scope as I had planned to do...I have her in quarantine and am salting the tank, so it would be easy to treat her again, or get a scrape and see what it looks like under the microscope, but I'm not sure I'll know what I"m looking at...
      Any thoughts? Have you seen this before? Is it treatable?
      Thanks for your help!
      Attached Images Attached Images   
      Vicki


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    2. #2
      cindy's Avatar
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      Looks viral. Here's a PP I did on bumps. https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...t=Lymphocystis

    3. #3
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      Thanks Cindy, but for some reason my computer will not let me go to the page. It says it may have a malicious virus or something...I'd like to see it!
      Vicki


      "Some of my best friends have scales!"

      Member Dallas Koi Kichi Club (www.dallaskoikichi.org)
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    4. #4
      cindy's Avatar
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      Well poop, I know its safe. My quick time is out of date. Let me pull a couple pics and also I'll alert Justin

    5. #5
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lunatoons View Post
      Bumps on tail
      We netted, anesthesized and examined my showa yesterday. I've sent these photos to KHA's but thought I would post them here for input.
      These bumps have just shown up in the past week. Koi is otherwise acting normal, eating well, does not flash or seem to be in distress at all. She's about 16" and was becoming a real beauty before this happened.
      These are fleshy sort of hard bumps all along the tail. When I scraped a couple off, she was bleeding underneath, and it seemed like I might be actually tearing the tail, so I stopped. I also noticed a little red streaking on the lower part of the body, almost looks like a scrape.
      So...thinking it might be bacterial, I gave her a shot of Nuflor, put on hydrogen peroxide where the bumps were (but it really didn't bubble much) then iodine. At that point she was waking up, so we put her in the recovery tank without doing any more. Guess I was kind of freaked out about what this could be, so I didn't scrape and scope as I had planned to do...I have her in quarantine and am salting the tank, so it would be easy to treat her again, or get a scrape and see what it looks like under the microscope, but I'm not sure I'll know what I"m looking at...
      Any thoughts? Have you seen this before? Is it treatable?
      Thanks for your help!
      I vote for lymphocystis. I have an Aka Matsuba that did the same thing 2 months ago. It's tail was covered with them as well as a few on some of the other fins. I put it to sleep, scraped off all of it, making sure that none of it makes it back into the tank, and it did bleed quite a bit. I treated all of the areas with betadine and put the Koi into a QT tank with salt and El bagin. It made a full recovery and is now back with the rest of the population.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    6. #6
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      Here's a slide from my pp, the author used a toilet brush to rough up the fishes tail, it also appeared on his hands I'll have to read back, seems like concrete and high ph removed the blisters from his hands.
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    7. #7
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      Yikes! It can be transferred! Yuuck! Good thing I wore gloves, although my "lab partner" did not. We will have to be more careful...What do you means about concrete and high Ph...literally concrete to wash the hands? Why did he use a toilet brush to "rough up the tail"?
      That sure does look like what my koi has...someone told me that putting the fish in 0.30% salt could improve it, so I'm starting with that. Some say remove them, others say leave them alone...not sure what to do...
      Vicki


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      Member Dallas Koi Kichi Club (www.dallaskoikichi.org)
      Member North Texas Water Garden Society (www.ntwgs.org)

      Always learning!
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      Skimmer to 1/4 hp 2 speed pump to Bead filter to 4 jets,
      2-4" BD to SC to Nexus 300 to 1/4 hp Performance Pro Artesian pump to 2 S/G filters to waterfall

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    8. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      I vote for lymphocystis. I have an Aka Matsuba that did the same thing 2 months ago. It's tail was covered with them as well as a few on some of the other fins. I put it to sleep, scraped off all of it, making sure that none of it makes it back into the tank, and it did bleed quite a bit. I treated all of the areas with betadine and put the Koi into a QT tank with salt and El bagin. It made a full recovery and is now back with the rest of the population.
      Can you tell me what El bagin is? Is that an antibiotic?
      Vicki


      "Some of my best friends have scales!"

      Member Dallas Koi Kichi Club (www.dallaskoikichi.org)
      Member North Texas Water Garden Society (www.ntwgs.org)

      Always learning!
      6000 gallon liner pond
      Skimmer to 1/4 hp 2 speed pump to Bead filter to 4 jets,
      2-4" BD to SC to Nexus 300 to 1/4 hp Performance Pro Artesian pump to 2 S/G filters to waterfall

      Click for Dallas, Texas Forecast



    9. #9
      cindy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      I vote for lymphocystis. I have an Aka Matsuba that did the same thing 2 months ago. It's tail was covered with them as well as a few on some of the other fins. I put it to sleep, scraped off all of it, making sure that none of it makes it back into the tank, and it did bleed quite a bit. I treated all of the areas with betadine and put the Koi into a QT tank with salt and El bagin. It made a full recovery and is now back with the rest of the population.
      Russell, I did that with my Chagoi,(didn't add the elbagin) came back the next summer, same spot.

      Quote Originally Posted by Lunatoons View Post
      Yikes! It can be transferred! Yuuck! Good thing I wore gloves, although my "lab partner" did not. We will have to be more careful...What do you means about concrete and high Ph...literally concrete to wash the hands? Why did he use a toilet brush to "rough up the tail"?
      That sure does look like what my koi has...someone told me that putting the fish in 0.30% salt could improve it, so I'm starting with that. Some say remove them, others say leave them alone...not sure what to do...
      He was doing a study, the brush open the skin. Guess he should have wore gloves. Lesson learned.

      I agree 100% with Russell, if you do scrape and clean, keep that fish and fluid away from the others while you're doing and wear gloves.

      Elgabin is a little pack of antibiotics, sometimes added for stress in travel.

    10. #10
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      "Elgabin is a little pack of antibiotics, sometimes added for stress in travel."

      Well, guess that's what I did with an injection of Nuflor...I did have to put her in the qtank with 3 tosai...hope they're okay, but they aren't big enough to put in the pond yet...
      Vicki


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      Member Dallas Koi Kichi Club (www.dallaskoikichi.org)
      Member North Texas Water Garden Society (www.ntwgs.org)

      Always learning!
      6000 gallon liner pond
      Skimmer to 1/4 hp 2 speed pump to Bead filter to 4 jets,
      2-4" BD to SC to Nexus 300 to 1/4 hp Performance Pro Artesian pump to 2 S/G filters to waterfall

      Click for Dallas, Texas Forecast



    11. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by cindy View Post
      Russell, I did that with my Chagoi,(didn't add the elbagin) came back the next summer, same spot.


      He was doing a study, the brush open the skin. Guess he should have wore gloves. Lesson learned.

      I agree 100% with Russell, if you do scrape and clean, keep that fish and fluid away from the others while you're doing and wear gloves.

      Elgabin is a little pack of antibiotics, sometimes added for stress in travel.
      I never use El Bagin in that manner. The breeders I have talked to about what they put in when they move fish by truck is OTC. I only use El Bagin as an antibiotic and I always use it with 0.6% to 0.7% salt.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by cindy View Post
      Russell, I did that with my Chagoi,(didn't add the elbagin) came back the next summer, same spot.


      He was doing a study, the brush open the skin. Guess he should have wore gloves. Lesson learned.

      I agree 100% with Russell, if you do scrape and clean, keep that fish and fluid away from the others while you're doing and wear gloves.

      Elgabin is a little pack of antibiotics, sometimes added for stress in travel.
      I haven't had it come back on any of the fish I have treated but it could just be lucky.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    13. #13
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      Well, I checked on her last night...she's eating, swimming well, does not seem to be in distress at all, (except for being in a quarantine tank instead of her big pond!)
      Could be my imagination, but they seem a little less prominent today...don't know why that would be. Could the injected Nuflor have an effect on it?
      Vicki


      "Some of my best friends have scales!"

      Member Dallas Koi Kichi Club (www.dallaskoikichi.org)
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      6000 gallon liner pond
      Skimmer to 1/4 hp 2 speed pump to Bead filter to 4 jets,
      2-4" BD to SC to Nexus 300 to 1/4 hp Performance Pro Artesian pump to 2 S/G filters to waterfall

      Click for Dallas, Texas Forecast



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      Ok I'll bite, Russell what's OTC?...

    15. #15
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      Only OTC I know is "Over The Counter".
      For the love of Koi
      Don't Sweat the Small Stuff

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    16. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by C C View Post
      Ok I'll bite, Russell what's OTC?...
      OTC is Otra-Tetracyclene. We carry this as well as El bagin. We get them both from Japan. OTC can work well on bacterial gill problems as well.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    17. #17
      cindy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      OTC is Otra-Tetracyclene. We carry this as well as El bagin. We get them both from Japan. OTC can work well on bacterial gill problems as well.
      Good to know

    18. #18
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      Is the OTC the same as I would get as the feed store?

    19. #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by majederr View Post
      Is the OTC the same as I would get as the feed store?
      I am not sure but it could very well be.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    20. #20
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      How is OTC used? is it topical or just mixed in the water?
      Vicki


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