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    Thread: Need suggestions on what brand vortex settlement tank.

    1. #1
      KarlJ is offline Junior Member
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      Need suggestions on what brand vortex settlement tank.

      Trying to come up with a game plan on what equipment and brand of equipment to go with when I re-vamp my filtration this coming spring. My pond is currently about 1300 gallons and I intend on going up to 2' deeper which will add nearly 400 more gallons. I plan on running a sequence 750 series/3600gph. The vortex will pull 1 or 2 bottom drains. The pump will pull the vortex and my skimmer seperately. I have a high water fall and low water fall so I need to return the water to the high water fall through some sort of (still undecided) pressure filter. The lower fall can be fed by a non pressurized bio filter, as it is currently.
      So If I go 50/50 and pull 1800gph from the vortex and 1800gph from the skimmer, what size vortex should I go with? Any suggestions on the brand? I've looked at the suburbanponds and W.Lim. Am I missing any others?
      The vortex have a drain on the bottom to flush out the waste. Instead of running the drain to a pit and ejector pump, I was thinking of connecting the drain to the suction side of the sequence pump and a waste on the discharge side of the pump. With a series of valves I could suck the waste from the tank when necessary and discharge it to where ever, without having to install additional pits and pumps. Anyone else doing this?

    2. #2
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      The use of the sequence to evacuate the vortex would not be advisable. There will be some leaves, small twigs, other debris that would not readily go through the vanes of the sequence pump, causing ti to clog. As for brands, I have a W Lim and like it. I also have 2 other brands and one is not yet connected and the other is over flowed, so not nearly the satisfaction of the Lim.


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    3. #3
      KarlJ is offline Junior Member
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      What do you discharge the waste from the settlement tank to then? My elevations will not allow for a gravity discharge. Sump pumps are not made to handle solids, ejector pumps are more for "soft" solids. Wouldn't having a primer pot/leaf strainer on the suction side of the pump solve the problem?

    4. #4
      AdamT is offline Senior Member
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      I got one of these with the house, my only complaint is that they don't have lids.
      http://www.pondwise.com/163.htm

      Adam

    5. #5
      birdman's Avatar
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      Shipping costs on large items like a vortex can be quite high. Take a look at the Cetus Sieve. It's expensive, but might not be that bad compared to a vortex with shipping.

    6. #6
      Kent Wallace's Avatar
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      You would use a solids handling submersible pump. They are readily available. I like the Wlim Wave 24 for small ponds. You could also use a 55 gal drum for a 3" drain with no problem and place the discharge pump in the bottom. I've done this many times and it works well every time.

    7. #7
      WAC is offline Senior Member
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      Is this all you're trying to do?
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    8. #8
      KarlJ is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by WAC View Post
      Is this all you're trying to do?
      I really dont have the realestate to build an underground vault or access area so the system needs to be dropped in the ground and backfilled. For that reason, I dont think a sieve is a good candidate. Id like to position the pump at ground level or slightly above ground level. I know it will make priming more of a chore but with proper placement of checkvalves it can be done. Im just worried that if the pump is below grade it will get flodded out in a bad rain storm.

    9. #9
      birdman's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by KarlJ View Post
      I really dont have the realestate to build an underground vault or access area so the system needs to be dropped in the ground and backfilled. For that reason, I dont think a sieve is a good candidate. Id like to position the pump at ground level or slightly above ground level. I know it will make priming more of a chore but with proper placement of checkvalves it can be done. Im just worried that if the pump is below grade it will get flodded out in a bad rain storm.
      The Cetus Sieve can be buried, and takes less room than a vortex. Putting your pump above water level on the ground will work just fine for either application. Just use a self priming pump with a swing check valve at the outlet of the sieve or vortex.

    10. #10
      Kent Wallace's Avatar
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      If you're tight on space then the pump can be placed directiy in the bottom with no additional discharge tank. A Cetus requires an discharge tank to flow to when burried. It depends on the layout and available space.
      The check valve should go inside the tank if the pump is above ground and the tank is burried. The inlet valve can be sleeved with and extension on the handle.
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      Last edited by Kent Wallace; 07-26-2010 at 11:44 AM.

    11. #11
      KarlJ is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
      The Cetus Sieve can be buried, and takes less room than a vortex. Putting your pump above water level on the ground will work just fine for either application. Just use a self priming pump with a swing check valve at the outlet of the sieve or vortex.
      I do like the idea of the sieve I but I think Id rather have the vortex. When you say "self priming" I assume you mean a pump with a primer pot attached to the suction side of the pump, is this correct?

      As far as burying the vortex goes Im guessing its not necessary to set it it concrete before you backfill? Im a License Plumber by trade and have set many underground holding and effluent tanks. Some have been large volume cast tanks weighing thousands. Their just set in stone, leveled and backfilled with stone.

    12. #12
      Kent Wallace's Avatar
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      I always set the base in concrete. It makes leveling it easier and being that it is a small tank the concrete will help keep it in place without shifting. If I am using a cone shaped tank I always bury the cone in concrete along with the bottom drain from the trank if it uses one.

    13. #13
      Kent Wallace's Avatar
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      How about a pic of your layout!
      Last edited by Kent Wallace; 07-26-2010 at 01:34 PM. Reason: duplicat post

    14. #14
      KarlJ is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kent Wallace View Post
      How about a pic of your layout!
      The high water fall is at the south end of the pond you can see the skimmer with the faux stone lid on center with the fall on the north end of the pond



      The south end almost touches the property line. On the west side of the pond there is 2' between the pond and the backside of the house and on the east side of the pond sits a pergola. So on the north side of the pond I have about 8-10' of land before I hit the driveway. I have a downspout and a sump pump that discharge underground to 4" corrugated and flow out in the rear of the property near the service way. Im trying to stay away from re-arranging that but ultimately will do what I have to do




    15. #15
      mpageler's Avatar
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      Polytankco.com here in MN makes the tanks for Wlim. Theyt makea range of heavy duty flat and cone bottom cylinder tanks. I have been getting mine via local Koiphen dealer Koi Acres. While you would have to DIY the inlet/outlets, I believe Koi Acres makes it to Chicago once in a while (koi shows) and might be a source for holding down the shipping/delievery cost. But if you buy a a larger tank of that quality, you would be well on you way to paying for a Cetus Sieve. You can bury these tanks if careful..I* asked when I was considering a SC.

      http://www.polytankco.com/
      Last edited by mpageler; 07-26-2010 at 02:59 PM.
      MN Mike

      5400g 10'x14'x 5
      Dry Stacked Block Walls - Drop-in Liner
      4" BD - Cetus Seive - DIY Skimmer
      125g MB w/8ft2 Biollow9
      Converted Trition II Sand Filter

      My Pond Construction
      My QT Tank
      My Indoor Overwintering Tank
      Calculating K1 Bio Media


    16. #16
      KarlJ is offline Junior Member
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      I do like the sieve, and if I was going to install a brick and mortar equipment vault below grade I would probably opt for the sieve. The issues I have with the sieve are lack of lid, but Im sure it could be retro-fitted with something. The reading Ive done on it suggest that the pump be installed at the same level as the outlet of the sieve to prevent air lock, Im sure this is more of a manufacture disclaimer and with the proper placement of check valves this issue can be solved. The last one I read said to avoid backfilling up to the sieve in an underground application. The pressure pushing in on the sieve could cause distortion and affect the performance of the sieve.

    17. #17
      KarlJ is offline Junior Member
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      Thanks for all the input everyone! The W.Lim product seems to be the vortex for me

    18. #18
      WAC is offline Senior Member
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      For your size of the pond w/ 3" aerated bottom drain (1800gph) & 3" skimmer line (1800gph) connection you could do this ...

      Is yours the 8" Pondbuilder Skimmer? If so the 3" bulkhead connection would need to come in from the bottom & not the side.

      You're correct about not direct burying the sieve. The pressure of the earth can/will push in on the floating weirs & affect the motion. The MIDI Sieve is only 10.38" wide so a dry-stacked cinder block wall on either side would still allow for a small footprint.
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      Last edited by WAC; 07-27-2010 at 03:16 PM.

    19. #19
      mpageler's Avatar
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      I think the Ultrasieve Midi that WAC mentioned would be a good option for your size pond. With it's small footprint, you could make a very small fitler pit to house the Midi, sump basin, pump and valving.
      MN Mike

      5400g 10'x14'x 5
      Dry Stacked Block Walls - Drop-in Liner
      4" BD - Cetus Seive - DIY Skimmer
      125g MB w/8ft2 Biollow9
      Converted Trition II Sand Filter

      My Pond Construction
      My QT Tank
      My Indoor Overwintering Tank
      Calculating K1 Bio Media


    20. #20
      KarlJ is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by WAC View Post
      For your size of the pond w/ 3" aerated bottom drain (1800gph) & 3" skimmer line (1800gph) connection you could do this ...

      Is yours the 8" Pondbuilder Skimmer? If so the 3" bulkhead connection would need to come in from the bottom & not the side.

      You're correct about not direct burying the sieve. The pressure of the earth can/will push in on the floating weirs & affect the motion. The MIDI Sieve is only 10.38" wide so a dry-stacked cinder block wall on either side would still allow for a small footprint.
      I Like the set up and the small footprint. That could work. Wether I do a vortex or a sieve, I still need a better biological filter. Now my problem is that I have to get the water up roughly 2' above the water level and I really dont want to rework things to go through a bio-falls or similiar. So one way is to go from the vortex/sieve to a pressurized filter.
      Let me ask this, can I run the bottom drain through the sieve/vortex(which ever one I decide) then pipe the outlet of the sieve/vortex to the inlet side of a vortex filter(a vortex filled with bio media) and then out to the suction side of the pump.

      So basically the pump would pull water from the vortex filter(vortex filled with bio media) which in turn would be pulling water from a vortex settiling tank or sieve, who are getting their water from the bottom drain and skimmer. The tanks would be burried and the pump above water level. Will this work?

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