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    Thread: 16-17" Certified Female Nisai Omosako Shiro Utsuri

    1. #1
      Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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      16-17" Certified Female Nisai Omosako Shiro Utsuri

      This is a 16-17" certified female nisai (16 mos old) Omosako Shiro Utsuri that I just purchased from a hobbyist in San Jose. What do you guys think? Any potential? Keeper for now or time to rehome? From what I know, she grew from 10" this spring to her current size of 16-17" on Saki Hikari. I don't know anything about the previous owner's pond water parameters.

      Any of you have any experience with the yellow color? If so, then will it clear up or will the yellow stay? Is this yellow a sign of too much San Jose sunshine, water parameters, diet, liver issue, and/or sex? Will Manda Fu, Hi-Silk, and/or Sweet Potatoes help to clear up the shiroji? The certificate says female but I know that certificates can be wrong.

      From what I know, the previous owner hasn't tried to sex her. Even if he tries, I don't how accurate it will be at this age and season. I can't tell from looking at the shoulders and pecs whether it is a male or female. I love the torpedo-shaped bone structure (pixs can be deceiving though) and the balanced 1/3rd of pec depth motoguro. And the head. Who cannot adore that broad and beautiful head with eyes set shoulder-width apart and farther back towards the gill plates and a wide mouth. Do I hear jumbo, anyone? And more importantly, while she doesn't have the checkered pattern and desired odome, IMO, her sumi is of very high quality with some Magoi influence. Now if they all come up at the same time and the yellow clears up, I may have myself a beauty!

      I am somewhat concerned about the short leading ray on her right pec as well. At this age, I don't know whether that ray will grow back. Anyways, any opinion and/or feedback is much appreciated.
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      Super Kindai is offline Senior Member
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      Lam-sam, What is the fish' Oyagoi name.....Musashi, Panda, or Ebisu? Also, Don't you have more decent & detail pictures??

      http://omosako.web.fc2.com/keito/news-japan.html

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      nguyen4 is offline Senior Member
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      Hi Lam fish look have good body structure, I not good on skin or color so let someones tell you about it. I like your fish. I have ones from last grow out contest. What happen now is a white fish, last night I finish a new Koi Nations and look back my fish picture. You know what happen? I just tell myself maybe it not come yet. This is her later picture
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    4. #4
      Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Super Kindai View Post
      Lam-sam, What is the fish' Oyagoi name.....Musashi, Panda, or Ebisu? Also, Don't you have more decent & detail pictures??

      http://omosako.web.fc2.com/keito/news-japan.html
      Thanks for the link, Junichi-san. If I remember correctly, she is an offspring of Musashi. I will get more decent and detailed pictures as soon as she arrives later this week. Junichi-san, what do you think about the sex? The certificate says it's a female born in 5/30/2008 (same month and date as my daughter's date of birth). And is the yellow concerning? Will the yellow improve with time? Have any of you seen koi with malfunctioning liver causing too much bilirubin resulting in the jaundice look?

    5. #5
      Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by nguyen4 View Post
      Hi Lam fish look have good body structure, I not good on skin or color so let someones tell you about it. I like your fish. I have ones from last grow out contest. What happen now is a white fish, last night I finish a new Koi Nations and look back my fish picture. You know what happen? I just tell myself maybe it not come yet. This is her later picture
      Nguyen, I really like this Omosako shiro utsuri. Any idea who the oyagoi is? Also, what size and what age? Do you have any pixs of when you first bought her? Was she all white at tosai? I would keep this one for a long time, Nguyen. There might be a lot more surprises to come. If you don't have the patience to watch her develop, then she is welcome in my pond any time! Something tells me there's Panda influence!

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    7. #7
      Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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      Thanks Jeff. Look at how much whiter the shiro got over a few month's time! There's hope!!!!! Now, gotta make sure it's a female.

    8. #8
      broll is offline Senior Member
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      Lam -

      Great looking SU.

      Jeff -
      Is this yellowing phenomenon something that always (or very often) happens with female SU around the 10.5 month age marker? If so, can you explain (in words that will support your great visual examples) why? And is there another point later in development where if always (or very often) happens again?

      Thanks,

      bec

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      I'm giving up on this shiro because of the yellow, so Lam is buying it from me as a gamble. I think it will improve but I don't know how much. I have a sibling of this fish in the same pond who has remained bone white all summer. So no, I can't explain and don't want to postulate. Heavy feeding, sunlight, genetics, sex, sexual maturity, all may be factors. Omosakos in particular can change a lot, and this fish has enough positives to make it worth watching. But I had to make some cuts.

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      Super Kindai is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lam Nguyen View Post
      Thanks for the link, Junichi-san. If I remember correctly, she is an offspring of Musashi. I will get more decent and detailed pictures as soon as she arrives later this week. Junichi-san, what do you think about the sex? The certificate says it's a female born in 5/30/2008 (same month and date as my daughter's date of birth). And is the yellow concerning? Will the yellow improve with time? Have any of you seen koi with malfunctioning liver causing too much bilirubin resulting in the jaundice look?
      I see...it's a Musashi....... If anything, the fish looks like a female but hard to tell by this pic only. the short "broken" leading ray on her right pec will not grow back in most cases. the yellow is concerning if it is a male, but is not concerning if it's a female with a skin texture of fine grains type. Not only SU but also Gosanke during a rapid growing season in mud ponds have most likely yellowish skin compare to winter season. According to Omosako's experiences & opinion, often yellow ones are better in future......

      >IMO, her sumi is of very high quality with some Magoi influence....
      Ahh, Lam-san, this is a brand new & unique interpretation of sumi.....

      Here is Omo's succeeded samples of 21 different fish. ( click to see large pics of each fish & progress)
      http://omosako.web.fc2.com/process-japan.html

    11. #11
      nguyen4 is offline Senior Member
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      How about my fish, SK?

    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by nguyen4 View Post
      How about my fish, SK?
      It's a male, isn't it?

    13. #13
      gcuss is offline Senior Member
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      Lam,

      Like Junichi, if it's a girl indeed, the yellow doesn't bother me. And she does have an outstanding head and bone structure going on.

      Too much sumi for my personal taste, and would be nice to see a picture as tosai. I'm wondering if she showed kage type sumi then as well, or if it's on the move.

      The leading ray on the pec is a little iffy. Of course, I'm not an expert but I would worry about it growing back...

      You surprised me with this one Lam, good luck!

      Grant

    14. #14
      nguyen4 is offline Senior Member
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      Sorry i don't know how to sex my fish. But I think it is a female.

    15. #15
      Super Kindai is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by nguyen4 View Post
      Sorry i don't know how to sex my fish. But I think it is a female.
      I see.. ,, It looks to me that the skin looks fine but not a great thru the pictures. In reality, a slightly bluish skin is preferable for its future sumi quality, unlike kohaku's white-pinkish type skin,. Also in reality, an immovable sumi (the sumi that is coming up & down at same place is fine) is better than a movable sumi here and there.....Sanke & Showa as well.

    16. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by Super Kindai View Post
      I see.. ,, It looks to me that the skin looks fine but not a great thru the pictures. In reality, a slightly bluish skin is preferable for its future sumi quality, unlike kohaku's white-pinkish type skin,. Also in reality, an immovable sumi (the sumi that is coming up & down at same place is fine) is better than a movable sumi here and there.....Sanke & Showa as well.

      Junichi, he is talking about his Hasegawa Kohaku in a different thread.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    17. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      Junichi, he is talking about his Hasegawa Kohaku in a different thread.
      I think he is talking about the SU on #3 of this thread...maybe

    18. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by Super Kindai View Post
      I think he is talking about the SU on #3 of this thread...maybe

      Oops, sorry. I had 3 hours sleep last night and some beer. i read the thread and forgot about that post.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    19. #19
      Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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      Beer?! Did I hear beer?! Well, where's the beer?! Yes, I believe Nguyen is talking about his Omosako shiro utsuri in post #3.

      The Hasegawa kohaku is not too shabby, though!

    20. #20
      Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Super Kindai View Post
      I see...it's a Musashi....... If anything, the fish looks like a female but hard to tell by this pic only. the short "broken" leading ray on her right pec will not grow back in most cases. the yellow is concerning if it is a male, but is not concerning if it's a female with a skin texture of fine grains type. Not only SU but also Gosanke during a rapid growing season in mud ponds have most likely yellowish skin compare to winter season. According to Omosako's experiences & opinion, often yellow ones are better in future......

      >IMO, her sumi is of very high quality with some Magoi influence....
      Ahh, Lam-san, this is a brand new & unique interpretation of sumi.....

      Here is Omo's succeeded samples of 21 different fish. ( click to see large pics of each fish & progress)
      http://omosako.web.fc2.com/process-japan.html

      Junichi-san, I will see if I can quote a section from the textbook KOI I that discussed Magoi-influenced sumi.

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