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    Thread: "HEAT CYCLING" for KHV in QT !!

    1. #1
      CHICHI's Avatar
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      "HEAT CYCLING" for KHV in QT !!

      Hiya Guys ..

      You will all be aware that I am currently in the Process of "Heat Cycling" my Koi Babes using one of the KHV protocols since uniting them from all my Systems into a Single Show Vat QT

      Mine are currently at the "24C" UP part of the second Cycle and are about to be Chilled back down to 13C then Up once more for the Finale before being HELD at 24C for Two Weeks ..

      They have coped very well in fact going up in Temp (as we all know) is much more agreeable than Down which they didn`t like at all hence I`m NOT looking forward to the next few Days

      Worse still these Koi have a wealth of Nationalities coming from China/Israel/Japan and one of our Breeders here in the UK ???????

      Any Questions Fire Away

    2. #2
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      Stressing fish through heat cycling will sometimes trigger KHV to break but not always. There is no method that is 100%. Serology is still my method of choice.
      Tom





    3. #3
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      Quote Originally Posted by tnthat View Post
      Stressing fish through heat cycling will sometimes trigger KHV to break but not always. There is no method that is 100%. Serology is still my method of choice.
      I Agree but not financially viable from Most This is the Next Best Thing .. and I have A Magnoy Koi ...

    4. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by CHICHI View Post
      Worse still these Koi have a wealth of Nationalities coming from China/Israel/Japan and one of our Breeders here in the UK ???????

      Any Questions Fire Away
      These are all koi from different breeders put in the same qt or different qt vatsz?


      The first step towards getting somewhere, is to decide you are not going to stay where you are.

    5. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by MaximusJazz View Post
      These are all koi from different breeders put in the same qt or different qt vatsz?
      Ive had the Oldest Koi Babes for 5 1/2 years and the youngest (GO Babies) for Two years These have now all been United for "Cycling" because not all of them have been Heat Cycled previously (with the UK Bred babe alone not being considered a risk ) 10 in Total

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      I understand now.


      The first step towards getting somewhere, is to decide you are not going to stay where you are.

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      Quote Originally Posted by CHICHI View Post
      Ive had the Oldest Koi Babes for 5 1/2 years and the youngest (GO Babies) for Two years These have now all been United for "Cycling" because not all of them have been Heat Cycled previously (with the UK Bred babe alone not being considered a risk ) 10 in Total
      If they are in the same vat, and it breaks, you won't know where it came from.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    8. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      If they are in the same vat, and it breaks, you won't know where it came from.
      A Risk I have to take Russ in the Circumstances ..Three of these have been Cycled previously by the Dealers ? allegedly

    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by CHICHI View Post
      A Risk I have to take Russ in the Circumstances ..Three of these have been Cycled previously by the Dealers ? allegedly

      I understand.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    10. #10
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      If I quarantine here for six months our weather does a pretty good job of heat cycling for me. Both the high and low end. That is why I prefer to buy in spring and not add fish to my pond untill the weather starts to get to freezing. They are quarantined alone for several months and then some of my less favorite koi that hatched here are added for the rest of the time period.
      Nancy



    11. #11
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      hi chichi
      whats the reasoning behind this is it just for peace of mind and for future high end purchase risk

      the reason i say this is i have a few koi from my early days that are now swimming around with koi of a much higher purchase price and i was thinking about doing something like this when i finally get down to my preffered no of koi to be kept
      5500 uk gallon pond
      filtered by a double sieve bead combo
      all running over a shower

      waters not wet untill you touch it : steve fowler

      your not paranoid
      they are watching you steve fowler

    12. #12
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      ChiChi:

      I commend you for attempting what is nearly impossible. Since it has been proven on more than a few ocassions here that heat cycling proves little if anything when it comes to detecting carriers, why not make an attempt to test your fish using a method which is much more likely to yield an accurate result?

      How many fish?

      I'll send you the necessary syringes, vaccutainers and sterile blood tubes free of charge if you'll arrange to have the blood spun out by your vet with a centrifuge.

      Move the supernatant to the sterile blood tubes and freeze the supernatant and pack it with a couple ice packs. Send it to the Infectious Diseases Laboratory at the University of Georgia. Have your veterinarian sign the UGA form copied from kohealth.org and indicate you wish to have the samples tested using Virus Neutralization.

      Two-three day shipping should not be that expensive regardless of the number of samples. Since the test is only $20.00US each the overall expense is minimal and will in the end, provide you with peace of mind regarding the health of your fish.

      Reading and analysis of the tests are important. I'm sure Tom or I or others would be glad to help you interpret them.
      Karl Schoeler, founder: EIHIOICGI

      Certified: AKCA Better Health Practices December 2008


    13. #13
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      hi carl

      im pretty sure our vets over here would not even entertain you if you walked in and asked them to do this service for you perhaps chichi will have had more service from her vets

      we really arnt very efficient over here (my vet wants £100 call out just to ask for baytril) then i have to pay for the baytrill on top

      but thats very kind for offering the supply of the items needed
      5500 uk gallon pond
      filtered by a double sieve bead combo
      all running over a shower

      waters not wet untill you touch it : steve fowler

      your not paranoid
      they are watching you steve fowler

    14. #14
      CHICHI's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiValley View Post
      ChiChi:

      I commend you for attempting what is nearly impossible. Since it has been proven on more than a few ocassions here that heat cycling proves little if anything when it comes to detecting carriers, why not make an attempt to test your fish using a method which is much more likely to yield an accurate result?

      How many fish?

      I'll send you the necessary syringes, vaccutainers and sterile blood tubes free of charge if you'll arrange to have the blood spun out by your vet with a centrifuge.

      Move the supernatant to the sterile blood tubes and freeze the supernatant and pack it with a couple ice packs. Send it to the Infectious Diseases Laboratory at the University of Georgia. Have your veterinarian sign the UGA form copied from kohealth.org and indicate you wish to have the samples tested using Virus Neutralization.

      Two-three day shipping should not be that expensive regardless of the number of samples. Since the test is only $20.00US each the overall expense is minimal and will in the end, provide you with peace of mind regarding the health of your fish.

      Reading and analysis of the tests are important. I'm sure Tom or I or others would be glad to help you interpret them.

      Hi Karl ..

      Why Thank You Sweetie I`m speechless

      It is as Steve as Stipulated though Prohibitively Expensive to get a Vet here to do anything without an Exorbitant Fee

      No Exotic Fish Vet here would process the Blood there was only one "Fish" Vet in England and she sadly Died recently which is probably why Mike "Centrifuges" his own Samples ..

      Noteworthy also is that the Koi are all small with the biggest only 15" and Brave as I am re Surgery and Gill Snips etc Drawing Blood from such small Babes would be Hazardous in the Extreme for both myself and them

    15. #15
      KoiValley's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by steveandlou View Post
      hi carl

      im pretty sure our vets over here would not even entertain you if you walked in and asked them to do this service for you perhaps chichi will have had more service from her vets

      we really arnt very efficient over here (my vet wants 100 call out just to ask for baytril) then i have to pay for the baytrill on top

      but thats very kind for offering the supply of the items needed
      I think it is a matter of education. When I first approached my Doggie vet, he was a bit apprehensive about helping me. That was several years ago. I have since provided him and his Veterinarian wife with documents, books, and anything else I could think of to help them understand the serious nature of this effort. I have invited his family and his vet techs to my fish room to participate in drawing blood when new shipments have arrived. The change in attitude and understanding toward koi health has proven to be most valuable as they have begun to understand the situation. I frequently consult with them. They know me. Their employees know me. By being a source of information I have become somewhat valuable in their practice. I know. It isn't something that is accomplished overnight. But it can be done.

      My offer stands.
      Karl Schoeler, founder: EIHIOICGI

      Certified: AKCA Better Health Practices December 2008


    16. #16
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      This will be, of course, most interesting to follow. I am a bit curious to know - considering how careful you are my dear CC - how you have so many from various places to consolidate. Doesn't matter an iota to the final outcome, but just wondering.
      For the love of Koi
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    17. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by Joey S View Post
      This will be, of course, most interesting to follow. I am a bit curious to know - considering how careful you are my dear CC - how you have so many from various places to consolidate. Doesn't matter an iota to the final outcome, but just wondering.
      Not unusual but certainly of concern. I hope for a positive(negative) outcome. That is why proper testing is so important.
      Karl Schoeler, founder: EIHIOICGI

      Certified: AKCA Better Health Practices December 2008


    18. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by CHICHI View Post
      Hi Karl ..

      Why Thank You Sweetie I`m speechless

      It is as Steve as Stipulated though Prohibitively Expensive to get a Vet here to do anything without an Exorbitant Fee

      No Exotic Fish Vet here would process the Blood there was only one "Fish" Vet in England and she sadly Died recently which is probably why Mike "Centrifuges" his own Samples ..

      Noteworthy also is that the Koi are all small with the biggest only 15" and Brave as I am re Surgery and Gill Snips etc Drawing Blood from such small Babes would be Hazardous in the Extreme for both myself and them
      There is nothing hazardous about drawing blood from "such small babes". I've drawn from 6" koi on several ocassions. Nothing to it. In fact maybe a bit easier than those larger. I have held 6" koi in one hand and drawn blood easily. The most difficult problem is overcoming the human stress rather than the fish stress. Sedated fish don't know the diference.

      Educate your veterinarian. If that doesn't work, find a new vet. I firmly believe that there are veterinarians out there who WILL listen.
      Karl Schoeler, founder: EIHIOICGI

      Certified: AKCA Better Health Practices December 2008


    19. #19
      CHICHI's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Joey S View Post
      This will be, of course, most interesting to follow. I am a bit curious to know - considering how careful you are my dear CC - how you have so many from various places to consolidate. Doesn't matter an iota to the final outcome, but just wondering.
      Hi Joey ..

      The oldest are the Original 3 Garden Centre Koi which other Half foisted upon our small Goldfish Pond which started the "Koi Pond" venture in earnest 5 1/2 years ago .. Japanese I think but anyones guess really Two Butterflies came from China with the UK Bred Babe gifted from a Friend
      One Magnoy and 3 Japanese Koi Babes were added during 07 prior to any Knowledge of KHV I`m afraid

      The Systems have all been "CLOSED" since 07 whilst I considered what I could do to minimize any risk to future Purchases once/if the "New" Pond is ever completed ???

    20. #20
      KoiValley's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by CHICHI View Post
      Hi Joey ..

      The oldest are the Original 3 Garden Centre Koi which other Half foisted upon our small Goldfish Pond which started the "Koi Pond" venture in earnest 5 1/2 years ago .. Japanese I think but anyones guess really Two Butterflies came from China with the UK Bred Babe gifted from a Friend
      One Magnoy and 3 Japanese Koi Babes were added during 07 prior to any Knowledge of KHV I`m afraid

      The Systems have all been "CLOSED" since 07 whilst I considered what I could do to minimize any risk to future Purchases once/if the "New" Pond is ever completed ???
      Draw blood. Process it and send it in. Provide yourself with some peace of mind. It isn't that difficult. I'll walk you through it.
      Karl Schoeler, founder: EIHIOICGI

      Certified: AKCA Better Health Practices December 2008


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