• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
    Results 21 to 40 of 42

    Thread: Brett, Brady, LETS TALK BENI (red color for you noobz)

    1. #21
      Brady Brandwood's Avatar
      Brady Brandwood is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2004
      Location
      Monroe, NC
      Posts
      785

      Lineages,...

      "But we must not think that in 2004 there is a single fish that is pure tomoin or yagozen. Each line has contributed to kohaku but none are created in a vacuum."

      As usual JR you have added some wonderful words to the mix! Yes, definitely important not to take Koi bloodlines too literally,... more of a descriptive language. I generally say "Tomoin type", or "Sensuke type" when describing a Koi because it has characteristics that resemble those characteristics its anscestors were known for. In fact there is no such thing as "pure" Tomoin or Yagozen,... but rather certain characteristics a breeder produced and showed to the world regularly and consistently were "trademarked" or became the breeder's calling card.

      Understanding the "characteristics" that came with the famous earlier bloodlines in Gosanke gives us a baseline in which to work from in our understanding of Koi traits and Koi development. These "types" of Koi generally develop consistently from fish to fish to fish, regardless of the breeder.

      Best Wishes,
      Brady Brandwod

    2. #22
      JPR is offline Inactivated
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      New Jersey
      Posts
      2,182
      Amen brother Brady, amen--

      JR

    3. #23
      JPR is offline Inactivated
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      New Jersey
      Posts
      2,182
      Hi Keo ,

      well it certainly wouldn't be right for me to post pictures of someone elses fish- especially if we are using it as an example of some trait.
      But I think I can protect the fish and owner by just showing this much-

      Notice how 'different' this koi's ginrin is from the usual ginrin. Look at the softness of the shiroji and the nature of this kiwa.
      Attached Images Attached Images  

    4. #24
      Graham's Avatar
      Graham is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2004
      Location
      Halifax Nova Scotia
      Posts
      5,418
      If I said it wasn't gin rin but just excellent skin quality what would you say.. Iv'e got fish from Ark that are total crap but look really good...... trick pics
      '
      G

    5. #25
      JPR is offline Inactivated
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      New Jersey
      Posts
      2,182
      I'd say " would you like to borrow my reading glasses?" JR

    6. #26
      savannahrobinson's Avatar
      savannahrobinson is offline Master Photographer of Glare and Bubbles
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2004
      Location
      Danbury, TX
      Posts
      11,649

      Another shot of fish from Brett

      This shot was taken of freshly seined fish at Brett's when the San Antonio koi club came to visit about a month ago.

      (I've been looking for photos contrasting the persimmon fish with the candy apple red fish).

      The little kohaku in the center of the photo is a sibling to the two step off to the far right. They have only one summer, so gender determination is more difficult.
      Attached Images Attached Images  

    7. #27
      keokoi Guest - Time to Register
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Quote Originally Posted by JPR
      Hi Keo ,

      well it certainly wouldn't be right for me to post pictures of someone elses fish- especially if we are using it as an example of some trait.
      But I think I can protect the fish and owner by just showing this much-

      Notice how 'different' this koi's ginrin is from the usual ginrin. Look at the softness of the shiroji and the nature of this kiwa.
      I respect you for not saying what fish or who's it is. But after looking at the example I can rest easy now and know. Yes I have seen this fish in person it is quite nice .... Keo

    8. #28
      Brady Brandwood's Avatar
      Brady Brandwood is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2004
      Location
      Monroe, NC
      Posts
      785

      Slashes,...

      "Brett mentioned the "hoshi" (stars) in the center of the scale. Is there enough knowledge to make a short listing of type of center mass on scales or between scales to make an educated guess as to the lineage of a koi? The start is one, there also see to be darker red centers that are not star shaped, there are also dark red scalloped edges of scales (not good). Can one of you elaborate please? Preferably with some nice macro pictures."

      Hi Jeff,

      The look of the hoshi star doesn't change much from line to line or type to type. These can be "read", and can tell us a lot about what we are looking at,... BUT we often need some additional info. to help us piece things together, such as age, the size of the Koi at that age, and details of where the Koi was raised over the past few years.

      The primary info. we gather from hoshi is "Yes" this Koi has more future potential, or 'No" it doesn't. It's a little like a fuel guage, that tells us if we have fuel or not. With so many other factors that can influence beni or hi, such as environment, genetic tendencies, light, hormonal influences, it's not reasonable to try and judge future thickness or overall quality of the hi plate by looking at these slashes in the center of the scales, BUT we can get a good idea of the future "tint" or "Hue" of the beni we are looking at.

      This pic is of a 4 year old female Kohaku from Dainichi Koi Farm (valued at at $6000 in 1998). This is an older pic I happen to have around here. The ink circle is not related to this thread, but is circling the "flaw" in the fish.

      Best Wishes,
      Brady Brandwood


    9. #29
      Brady Brandwood's Avatar
      Brady Brandwood is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2004
      Location
      Monroe, NC
      Posts
      785

      Looking,...

      This pic is of a male Nisai Kohaku of Yagozen type lineage. In this close-up we see the color yellow when we look into the beni (a good thing), we see the beni is reasonably thick for an 18 month old Koi, but we still see the slashes in the center of the scales, telling us the Koi has more to show us. If we look at the sashi of the hi plate just behind and below the dorsal we see that it is only about 1/2 scale thick, very nice,... though this is a photo, we see a shine, or glow about the skin, when we look across the beni plates we see an overall evenness, no light "islands" within the red,... this is a look I like to see in a young developing Kohaku, Sanke, or Showa.

      Best Wishes,
      Brady Brandwood

    10. #30
      Blammo's Avatar
      Blammo is offline Senior Member
      is Pretty !
       
      Feeling:
      Crazy
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2004
      Location
      Casa Presidente, Caracas
      Posts
      6,091
      GOOD GOOOBLEEEGOO
      I'm glad you quoted "flaw"
      Look at the skin and conformation on that fish !
      WHOAAAAAAAAAA

      Thanks for " kickin it up", Bro
      PURA VIDA
      COSTA RICA

      They hate our freedom....

      "Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken


      "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."
      - Dom Helda Camara

      "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
      - Bertrand Russell

      "Untouched by the breath of God, unrestricted by human conscience, both capitalism and socialism are repulsive."
      - Alexander Solzhenitsyn

    11. #31
      Jeff R. is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2004
      Location
      Dallas, Texas
      Posts
      2,873
      Very insightful and incisive, thank you very much.
      F'ubba

    12. #32
      Clay is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      Wisconsin
      Posts
      1,148

      Dictionary

      Sashi is the front edge of a spot of color. In a kohaku that has three steps and the first formation of color is on the head we will use as an example. The color on the head is not covered with scales so no sashi applies to this area. The second step in the pattern is covered in scales and shashi refers to this front edge. Many times when a pattern is not finished the red scale that is under the white scale can be seen. This is a characteristic of how deep the red scale goes. In a young fish it is a sign of further development is in order and the fish will get better as it finished.

      Kiwa refers to the trailing edge of the patch of color that is covered by scales. This edge should be sharp and clean and not a fuzzy edge. On good kiwa you can see the color of each red scale as being distinct and then the next scale which would be white is all white. No mixing of the colors on the trailing edge.

      Nissai means two year old fish. Toasai is one year old, nissai two, sansai three, yonsai 4.

      Shimi is a small speck of black on a kohaku. Most often the condition happens in hard water with a high pH. There is currently a thread on KP on removing shimi and how to go about it.

      Hoped this helped some.

      Clay

    13. #33
      gonecadd's Avatar
      gonecadd is offline Super Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      East Tennessee
      Posts
      19,229
      Yes, thank you.
      ,Karen
      Charter member #57
      My motto: Trust No One

    14. #34
      Dr J I Phillips's Avatar
      Dr J I Phillips is offline Our Esteemed South African Koi Judge
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2004
      Location
      Johannesburg, South Africa
      Posts
      897
      Thank you all. Most educational. Great examples.

    15. #35
      Sarge's Avatar
      Sarge is offline Good Ole Country Boy
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2004
      Location
      Clarksville, TN
      Posts
      10,414
      Interesting thread that merits more discussion.
      "Sarge"


      Disclosure statement: Don't read into where I post, or with whom I choose to call my friend. If you know me - you know me. All people are created equal and all humans have fault.

    16. #36
      koiingaround is offline Extra Special Memberness....our favorite
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      South Texas
      Posts
      8,366
      Quote Originally Posted by Sarge
      Interesting thread that merits more discussion.


      ESTEEMED STATUS IN THE KK ORG
      Charter Member 16!!!

      PROUD MEMBER OF THE SCC

    17. #37
      Noahsnana's Avatar
      Noahsnana is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      So. MD
      Posts
      51,046
      So more discussion Blammo?
      The will of God will not take you where the grace of God cannot keep you. .....
      "I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." -Winston Churchill Zone 7a
      I believe it can happen... Koi World Peace
      "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher

    18. #38
      dick benbow's Avatar
      dick benbow is offline "The Koi Coach"
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Mar 2007
      Location
      Seattle, Wa
      Posts
      4,795
      I'm always hesitant to join in these discussions because it takes photos to have to illustrate and i don't keep anything of a library. One of the beni's mentioned but not elaborated on was sensuke. It's what Sakai of hiroshima used to build their kohaku bloodline. But instead of keeping it "pure" they mixed in different bloodlines to redden up the color. Some of the old purists
      were disappointed in the change but the people seemed quite happy about it.
      Sensuke bloodline koi had a markedly orange base that matured to red orange.This waas considered by man as a "safe" beni. Their body line was long and solid. On the opposite side of the pros
      was the con...that they often would develop secondary Hi. You could see the red suddenly appear under the skin but it would never surface.
      This has been an educational thread and I want to thank the breeders and our resident Judge for sharing with everyone of their time and knowledge.

    19. #39
      Blammo's Avatar
      Blammo is offline Senior Member
      is Pretty !
       
      Feeling:
      Crazy
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2004
      Location
      Casa Presidente, Caracas
      Posts
      6,091
      Quote Originally Posted by Noahsnana View Post
      So more discussion Blammo?
      Well... That certainly was " Da Good Ole daze"
      I think about now is a good time for newbiezzz to begin studying,saving and preparing-building for their winter habitats for fish and plants.
      Set it up for a Friday night in a few weeks....we'll see how it goes.
      PURA VIDA
      COSTA RICA

      They hate our freedom....

      "Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken


      "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."
      - Dom Helda Camara

      "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
      - Bertrand Russell

      "Untouched by the breath of God, unrestricted by human conscience, both capitalism and socialism are repulsive."
      - Alexander Solzhenitsyn

    20. #40
      cindy's Avatar
      cindy is offline Supporting Member
      is has 2 new tosai
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      Mt. Wash. KY - 7 miles outside Louisville
      Posts
      64,623
      So we have a Friday night date?

    Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •