3 tossai kohaku to critique and choose

[MCPS Mike]

I like the clean break and sharp pattern on no.2

[paulw]

Out of them all it would be no2 as the overall pattern is even and the body shape is good and looks like it could turn out to be big in good water.

[BickalDIYPond]

#1 for me, I think the pattern has a good balance. I also think the red spot on the nose gives it character.

I like #2,but the big gap of white near the tail stop makes it look unbalanced to me. See picture

[KoiKid]

#3, don't ask why, but it looks a bit brighter to me...

[BickalDIYPond]

Also, you guys were talking about red on the pec. Here is a picture of one of the kohakus I bought at Nogami's. With red on the pec. I liked it alot, and would love to see a strain of kohaku's that look more like Shiro Utsuris. So the red should stay on this one correct ?

[Pacificcoastkoi]

This is how I rate them. If I were going to go to a show tommorrow it would be #2,#3,#1.The white on #2 appears a little better to me right now, as well as the beni appears to be cut much cleaner, and it has a nice balanced pattern with nice shape to its head and body. #3 has alot of potential to me with the size and shape of it's head probably will become the largest. .the beni is still not as well finished as #2 is, and the front of the beni pattern is not as appealing as the other two's are.#1 is nice also ,but I see a small break in the beni on the right side of the fish that at this time is not very well finish in either color.
Now if I were purchasing a fish and I had to choose only one it would definantly be #3. I think that #3 has the best beni of them all. along with the what appears to be the largest growth potential ,and when it is full grown I beleive that it's pattern will fit it's body better than the other 2. At full size you will be able to look beyond the front edge of the beni on the face not beiong round,the rest of the fish will more than make up for this one minor flaw.

[Cowiche Ponder]

I like #1. I think it has a nice white background, I like the pattern and what I can see I think it will lay nicer as the fish gets bigger. I see a peek of white to the off side that I think will break it up very nicely maybe even to a 3 step?? Yup on the kuchibeni!!

I agree with Greg on #2 I don't like that bigger break. I do like #3 better than 2. gonna be a big fish!

Mary

[jnorth]

JNorth, I also like kuchibeni - lipstick. Some don't like it.

Thanks. I wasn't sure on the spelling at the time I posted so I went with lipstick.

[keokoi]

Going against the grain here..

First of all it is always hard to judge by photos nothing like the real thing baby..



Ok my first pic is number 1 The photo is definately low in light so I am taking that into consideration. So I am guessing the shiroji is clean or Dr. J would have not selected it. The body I am also taking into consideration as it is tilted. Kiwa is not sharp but I am hoping this will tighten up as it gets older for future fish. Pattern is good with kuchibeni then first step is bold going into shoulder area and then the hi spot near tail balancing out the pattern. Overall balance is good I like it.

Number 2 is my second pic as it shows good body color. Pattern is boring to me but hi is solid. Could be male with this type of color. Overall It would be a fun fish to take home but may not get more than best in size.

Number 3 I just don't like the body. Big head yeah yeah it may grow big but that tail is so skinny the bone structure is off. I think this one has a slight deformity. It is also lacking in length very stubby fish.

Ok Dr. J set us straight sir...

Oh yeah Happy Holidays to you and your family.

Keo
Ok for me number 1 , 2 and 3

I will explain later gotta go...


keo

[woodyaht]

#2 for the pattern

#3 for the size

#1's eyes are to far forward for me

[saltiery]

#2 has better balance... #1 is a nice fish as well but most prefer not to have "lipstick" on their fish... #3 looks bit awkward at this point... may get better conformation ith age.

[keokoi]

#2 has better balance... #1 is a nice fish as well but most prefer not to have "lipstick" on their fish... #3 looks bit awkward at this point... may get better conformation ith age.

The 30 th All Japan Show sure liked Kuchibeni......

[woodyaht]

The 30 th All Japan Show sure liked Kuchibeni......

Ooooooooooooooo, Keo, I like that one!

[Koin-Onia]

For now 2 looks the nicest

I think with my very limited knowledge in talking with breeders grow out on 1 and 3 will be better for future potential. I like 3 the best of those 2

[Daz 1]

I think 3,1,2.
Although 2 is a good looking koi now it pattern doesn`t seem to go far down to it`s lateral line when it gets bigger the hi will shrink and just be on top(i hope you understand what i mean, i having had job putting into words)
3 , has potenrial to be a big koi with a good hi pattern.
Dave.

[Dr J I Phillips]

Thank you all for the input. I did not think the thread would attract so much interest. We must all like choosing young Koi even though we know it is safer to buy older Koi which are less prone to change. I know I cannot resist young Koi.
Willem is an excellent Koi keeper and has developed an eye for Koi. He does not show his Koi although he is sliding into the Show Chairman’s seat for 2005. He was looking for one or two tossai Kohaku. He chose his and I was tempted by one he did not take.
I would like to mention how fortunate we were to be allowed to select Koi at our leisure that were basically ungraded. Billy had removed the obvious lower grade Koi. He also assisted with the selections. He allowed us to net and bowl those we were interested in. It is not etiquette to handle other peoples Koi without permission and I called Billy to handle his Koi when we needed closer inspection. He checked the basics including the undersides and mouths of the Koi. When you hold a Koi towards you, the mouth will gape and you can see any deformities. The mouth should open wide and I like to see big mouths in young Koi. The ones with big mouths seem to grow well. The mouth should be symmetrical and rounded. At this size you cannot really tell if you are getting a male or female, another reason for buying older Koi.
The shiroji (white) and hi (red) was considered good in all three of these small Kohaku ranging from 15 to 20cm with #2 being the largest and #3 just the smallest. It is difficult to say too much about body shape in such small Koi. They had been imported from Japan (Mr Hosino) and were in a Q facility so feeding had been minimal for some time. This tends to give the big head and skinny body look. After a few weeks of good feeding this normally corrects itself. Beware of young Koi with extremely big heads and skinny bodies. This can be a sign of disease as well as lack of food.
I was not concerned about the small split in the pectoral fin of #3. In good clean water this will heal completely by itself.

#1 Willem’s first choice. There are two scales of sashi and although the hi runs close to the tail it looks balanced by the red on the lips and nose. Willem liked this pattern. As Willem is not going to show the fish, he was not worried about the red in the dorsal. This will probably recede. The red on the lips and nose perhaps gives the impression of shortening the face. The eyes looked well placed to all of us.
#2 Willem’s second choice. This was the largest of the three and has lovely white fins. The pectorals are big and rounded. The body shape is a bit long for the girth but again, I think good feeding will set that right. Personally, I thought the pattern was a bit boring.
#3 My choice. One of the smaller Koi’s in the tank. Billy even offered a discount as it was small. There is always a concern that there is a reason the Koi is not growing. The fins were nice and white. The odome (white space before the tail) is about the right size for the Koi at this stage. The backbone looked strong with a good bend to it. The impression was that this Koi was capable of growth. I thought the somewhat diagonal marking at the front of the head added character. The red on the body did wrap below the lateral line near the start of the dorsal fin. Most importantly, the white was probably the best on this Koi. Also, the red was the thickest. Billy even bent the fish to look into the scales. This hi was thick. To my eye and Billy’s, this was the quality Koi of the 3. This is why it is so difficult to judge from photos, important elements such as skin quality cannot be seen easily.

My number one choice would be #3. The quality is there although the body shape is not right at present. The backbone looks strong, the mouth is large and I expect the Koi to grow well with some good feeding.
It is hard to fault #2 it is on the skinny side but again feeding should get that right. This is probably the safe choice as it was one of the larger koi in the tank showing it has growth potential. From a pattern point of view the fish does not “talk to me”.
#1 Probably has the most interesting pattern and is the cutest. If you were trying to choose a show Koi, you are gambling that the hi in the dorsal fin will recede.

Willem has agreed to give you updates on the progress of the Koi – photos and sizes.