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    Thread: 3 tossai kohaku to critique and choose

    1. #1
      Dr J I Phillips's Avatar
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      Smile 3 tossai kohaku to critique and choose

      Which would you choose and why? I did not measure them exactly but the smallest is about 15 cm (6 inches) and the larger about 20 cm.
      You may only have one for Christmas!
      Attached Images Attached Images    

    2. #2
      mike is offline previously known as Aragorn..
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      hands down #2

      balanced pattern. (both from front to back and left to right) nice finish at the head


      #1 may have a chance but the angle of the photo isnt from directly above, but a little from the side (gives the illusion of imbalance)
      If you know how something 'works' ... you WILL know how to fix it.

    3. #3
      Dr J I Phillips's Avatar
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      #2 is the largest at 20cm. Breeder = Hosino

    4. #4
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      #3-wide shoulders, will get to be a big fish. more even color. nice odome. once the fish gets big the pattern will open up and more white will be seen.

      the others will not have the pattern wrap far enough for me when they mature.

      Carl
      pond-2,000 gallon, 20,000 gallon pond is now a pool. 700 gallon reef tank in the living room, my other obsession

    5. #5
      Dr J I Phillips's Avatar
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      Some very good comments so far. Keep them coming please.
      These Koi were bowled this morning from a tank of over 100 mainly Kohaku and Kinginrin Kohaku (Hosino). I was helping my good friend and Koiphen member Willem de Veer to choose two Kohkaus. He did not need help as he has developed a good eye. Two are in his pond. The other one, I could not resist and it is now in my 6000 litre Q pond.

    6. #6
      Lynn is offline Inactivated
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      Most likely it would be 2, I like the balance of the fish. Both in body form and pattern. Looks like a graceful fish for the pond, and I like larger areas of color and the white looks good in the picture. Only one, huh?

    7. #7
      Dr J I Phillips's Avatar
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      Yes, Lynn, the white (shiroji) is excellent on all 3 Kohaku.
      My good friend Billy Pretorius imported these for Pro Koi. He graded them by splitting the consignment in two. These were from the higher grade tank and are destined to go to his farm north of Pretoria for growing on in mud dams. He allowed Willem and I to select a few for ourselves. When confronted by a sea of red and white living jewels it is very difficult to choose. I start by concentrating on the white ground. I just see white and you begin to notice the really white ones. It is from these that I select kohaku for bowling.

    8. #8
      jnorth is offline Senior Member
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      I'll go with 2,1,3. I think 2 has the best pattern but 1 is very nice and has lipstick which I think is cool.

    9. #9
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      Dr. Phillips- you will tell us your pick and thoughts in a few days won't you?


      Carl
      pond-2,000 gallon, 20,000 gallon pond is now a pool. 700 gallon reef tank in the living room, my other obsession

    10. #10
      Dr J I Phillips's Avatar
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      Carloskoi, in a few days it is Christmas!
      I have seen these Koi so have more insight than what can be seen in the photos. I will tell you ones Willem and I chose and why tomorrow. These were from a short list of about 12 Koi that we bowled from the 100 or so. I wish I had a photograph of the whole bunch. They really were living jewels.
      JNorth, I also like kuchibeni - lipstick. Some don't like it.

    11. #11
      Graham's Avatar
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      3 2 1

      #3 big head probably going to be a big fish. The hi plates wrap down far enough on the body to that as the fish grows they'll still be proportion to the fish as they move up onto the dorsal area. The hi doesn't look to wrap down over the eyes but just to them. The sashi looks a little weak at this point but then it's only a little fish and that will develop with age. The kiwa looks good and will develop with age. Nice odome.

      #2 very nice fish at this size but I wonder if the hi plates won't be too small for the fish as it gets to full size…they may look too skinny going down the dorsal. Great looking sashi and kiwa and odome

      #1This might be the sleeper of the 3 fish……good body for a little fish, the sashi and kiwa will develop with age. The 2nd hi step is really small and may disappear with age and size or be just a minor distraction…

      All 3 fish have great white and hi.

      2 cents worth

    12. #12
      Dr J I Phillips's Avatar
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      Thanks Graham, an excellent 2 cents worth. All three Kohakus seem to have their supporters.
      One of the three has an obvious demerit - anyone spot it?

    13. #13
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      The only thing that I can see is the beni runs up into the dorsal on #1

      ??

    14. #14
      Dr J I Phillips's Avatar
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      Well spotted. A Kohaku should have pure white fins. Especially important when judging small Koi where pattern assumes more importance because of the similarities of body shape. What of the future though? Kokugyo 2 says that to a larger or lesser extent, hi in the dorsal fin will recede as the Koi grows. He shows an example where it recedes completely. There is a caveat though - as long as hi does not involve the leading edge or main bone of a fin it will recede. The hi on the dorsal of #1 does not involve the leading ray.

    15. #15
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      There is a caveat though - as long as hi does not involve the leading edge or main bone of a fin it will recede. The hi on the dorsal of #1 does not involve the leading ray.
      That I didn't know...learn something new everyday

    16. #16
      nancy m. is offline Senior Member
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      I like 2,3,1, The Hi looks really nice and the shiroji is excellent. I think that all 3 of these are very nice Kohaku's. Of course if they were perfect they would not have left Japan.
      [I]Competiton is Awsome!! Lets Rock

    17. #17
      Ray Jordan is offline The Rocket
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      At first glance #1 caught my eye. I like the kichibeni. The small amount of hi near the tail balances the kichibeni. Kiwa not a clean as I would like and hi in dorsal is not as elegant as all white fins. Nice white but hi appears a little uneven in depth. Nice conformation.

      #2 is a very nice two step but a little more skinny body but also seems to have nice large fins. It has a little more refined pattern especially the head insertion is nice. White seems very nice but the hi seems a little uneven n this photo. It may be only strong hoshi but I can’t tell.

      #3 seems to have the best conformation. Large head and shoulder width. It also seems to have the best hi and at least in this photo very nice shiny skin. Good Kiwa.I can’t see any barbels but I’ll assume they are OK.

      So with three close choices in quality I would stick with the advice to buy the red. In the photo’s that looks like #3 to me followed by #2 and then #1.

    18. #18
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      2, 1, 3

      Thank you! More!
      "Sarge"


      Disclosure statement: Don't read into where I post, or with whom I choose to call my friend. If you know me - you know me. All people are created equal and all humans have fault.

    19. #19
      Dr J I Phillips's Avatar
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      Thanks Nancy, as you say the best of the bunch are kept for growing on in Japan. Not all farms sell tossai in November. April seems to be tossai selling time in Japan.
      Graham I was only "quoting" or rather stating from memory what Kokugyo2 says. My experience is much more limited. I have bought a tossai Kohaku with hi in the central area of the dorsal fin and extending to nearly half way up. As sansai the hi has receded from the fin.
      Ray, as always some excellent and insightful comments.

    20. #20
      Dr J I Phillips's Avatar
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      The right pectoral fin is split on #3.

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