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  • Results 1 to 6 of 6

    Thread: Train Your Eyes

    1. #1
      Jeff R. is offline Senior Member
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      How can they train their eyes?

      Hey Tim:
      Thanks so much for the thread, they are always wonderful pictures! Does anyone have ideas on how those going to Japan can "train their eyes" by the unique experience of looking at some of the world's finest koi? Surely this is something they all want to derive the most benefit from. For those who have been Tim, JPR, Ray Jordan, Steve C., Keokoi and the multitude of others who have been there; what can the Koiphener's do to "train their eyes" and get the most education from this experience? I look forward to your assistance for them.
      Thank You,
      Jeff R.
      F'ubba

    2. #2
      schildkoi is offline Inactivated
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      Jeff.....

      first step is to do what you have been doing....going to a lot of Koi shows and looking at the winners, asking questions andgetting explainations on the finer points of the Koi. This helps train your eyes to quickly recognize the quality aspects of one Koi over another....keep it up grasshopper!

      Steve

    3. #3
      keokoi Guest - Time to Register
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      I have to agree with Steve. Jeff you are on the right track going to shows from what I have been reading and talking with the right people. Besides Japan shows are the best to look at high quality koi in person. So looking at a lot of fish exercises your eye the best.

      It also helps to have a few good mentors to follow and take time. I think this is where I am lucky as I have 2 awesome mentors close by me who have been in the hobby for quite some time.

      So Jeff judging by some of the posts you are on a good track. Hope to meet you one day at a show.


      Keo

    4. #4
      Tim Waddy is offline Super Deluxe Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Jeff R.
      Hey Tim:
      Thanks so much for the thread, they are always wonderful pictures! Does anyone have ideas on how those going to Japan can "train their eyes" by the unique experience of looking at some of the world's finest koi? Surely this is something they all want to derive the most benefit from. For those who have been Tim, JPR, Ray Jordan, Steve C., Keokoi and the multitude of others who have been there; what can the Koiphener's do to "train their eyes" and get the most education from this experience? I look forward to your assistance for them.
      Thank You,
      Jeff R.
      Jeff,
      Its experience mostly.
      Im in a great position of seeing world class koi all the time.
      But I also see bad koi, this is where me and the Judges argue.

      You really have to get over there as often as you can, JR goes every year and knows that he going to learn, He has said many times that just as you think you are getting somewhere, the breeders slap you down a few notches! Happens all the time.
      Japan spoils you for quality, Some fish make you actually speechless, I saw a koi last year and the start of my trip, I couldnt shake that koi out of my head for a month.
      Its like the Sandan Kohaku thats the current All Japan Champion, To me this is the most perfect koi I have ever seen, My favorite ever in my life and in my opinion the best koi I have ever seen, But that koi is done, its finished, the hard part is over, someone else did all the work for me to admire, Could I have picked that koi out at Tosai? Not a chance, thats the skill!
      Knowing a high quality fish to me is easy, Knowing a bad fish is even easier! But knowing that high quality fish when its less than 1 year old is almost impossible, People may say its luck, but when a breeder breeds over 10million fry and then gets left with 100 tategoi, I dont think it is. Its pure skill!!
      Thats what I get my kicks from, Thats the experince factor!

    5. #5
      Bob Winkler's Avatar
      Bob Winkler is offline Tooth Carpenter, Wine Drinker, but always Koi Kichi
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      Quote Originally Posted by Jeff R.
      Hey Tim:
      Thanks so much for the thread, they are always wonderful pictures! Does anyone have ideas on how those going to Japan can "train their eyes" by the unique experience of looking at some of the world's finest koi? Surely this is something they all want to derive the most benefit from. For those who have been Tim, JPR, Ray Jordan, Steve C., Keokoi and the multitude of others who have been there; what can the Koiphener's do to "train their eyes" and get the most education from this experience? I look forward to your assistance for them.
      Thank You,
      Jeff R.
      I think the others have put it very well. Experience....no short cut to getting it the first or 5th time....well, maybe the 5th And yes, most definately, continuing trips to Japan are the best way. I would say that at the beginning of my first Japan trip, I had a hard time telling the difference between a $500 koi and a $5000 one. By the end of the trip, I could do that. But at that point, telling the difference between $5000 koi and a $50,000 koi (no typo) was not possible for me. Now after many trips, I can do that. Can't afford 'em, but I can see what the difference is. In fact, I became a koi judge to learn this very thing. I didn't really want to be in the judging "position", but I thought it would help me learn. And it has. But the trips to Japan have helped more. Being a koi judge has helped give structure to my learning process, while the trip "education" tends to come in waves. The hobbyist on that best trip said to me then, it took at least 5 trips to Japan looking for koi to become really knowledgable. He meant that for judges and for hobbyists. I think he was right. But like others who have been much more than that, the learning always continues no matter how many trips one takes. But the quantum leap is often in the first 5.

      Go with a good guide and a good "group"....a guide who has a great eye and has been many times. Prove that with your own eyes by seeing what they have in their collection or at their place of business. They have to have a relationship with the breeders, because costs qouted can vary greatly. I have seen the same koi qouted while I was in two different groups on two seperate trips and the price was a bit different. Also a history of providing champion koi, if they are a business. A good group, IMHO, has only a few people in it, and all are very knowledgable. The learning that way goes on the whole time. Talking koi. My best learning trip had just 5 people total. 2 were "guides" for a dealer that fits my description, one was another koi dealer, and the last was a world class hobbyist. No wasting of time at all. The worst group had 10 "buyers" and two guides. It was chaos, and very frustrating. We actually "left" the group and just hung out at several breeders that were in walking distance to each other. We bought most of our koi that trip then. Not with the group.

      Ask questions of the breeders. So you have to have someone in the group who speaks Japanese and English. Some breeders like this more than others, but I may have that feeling because of the language barrier. But don't be shy or think they are going to think you are stupid. If some one asks a question(s) and they obviously love koi, and wanting to learn, it is usually welcomed. It is not good etiquette to bowl up koi you don't plan to purchase, but one can have koi bowled if one asks the question right. Again, if you want to learn, many breeders will take the time to teach. They want you to see the difference in their craft.

      You CAN get alot of this info at koi shows. Recognize you are getting some of the info "3rd" hand, but if you get to see quality koi a number of times, it will be more clear. Ask some of the same questions of the owners. If you see the same people with the best koi time after time, those would be whom I would be hanging out with . And I don't remember ever having a disagreement about a koi with Tim, other than that one time in Chicago when he was wrong and bribed another judge to agree with him JK.....about the bribing...LOL

      Hope that helps.

      Best Regards,

      Bob Winkler

    6. #6
      keokoi Guest - Time to Register
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      Good point Mike K, That is a game we play while in Japan. We don't do 6 but do the top 3. We pick top 3 and ask breeder which is number 1 if he isn't so busy. Mainly breeders we know.

      Something I'd like to add (and the list can keep going) is When looking at a group of koi Concentrate on only one. Look at it study it and if it does not do it for you then onto the next. I find this to make my descision easier. Keo

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