Khv Facts

[Michael Cox]

OK, here are a few things that people are missing or just not aware of.

First off it's our responsibility to QT our Koi. If you get a virus or a disease you can not blame the dealer. I am not saying the dealer has no responsibility but let's face it at the end of the day we are all adults and it is our responsibility to take care of our own homes.

I don't care how much you like your dealer or how honest they are, you are simply foolish if you do not QT.

I have spoken to several dealers/breeders and have suggested they get each and every fish they sell blood tested and roll the cost into the price of the fish.

When you or I adopt a pet we have to pay for things like neutering/spaying, first shots and the like. Why should it be any different with Koi?



1. Just QTing your Koi will not insure that your Koi are KHV free.

2. Heat cycling is not always going to show the KHV virus.

3. If a Koi has been introduced to an outbreak, it may very well be a carrier from that point. Meaning it may not show any signs of the virus until much later.

4. The ONLY way to know for sure if your Koi is KHV free is to blood test.

5. Heating your Koi between 74F and 82F will help encourage the virus to show its self. However, if the koi was just recently introduced to the virus its anti-body count can be so high that it shows no signs of KHV even for years. Meaning the body is fighting off the virus so it is not able to break out even under heat cycling.

6. When heat cycling if you go over 86F it does not fix the KHV it simply suppresses the virus temporarily from being able to grow as it were. Same thing happens at temps below about 72F.

7. If you do take the heat above the 86F it has been said that the virus has been fixed. Simply not true. Going back to the Koi that was in an out break but did not break with the virus its self. This Koi can fight off the virus for many years but at some point and time the Koi will get older and its immune system will weaken and when it does it will break out with the KHV virus.

8. Once again the only way to be positive is to blood test.

9. When blood testing you can get a false positive. In this case you will be asked to supply another sample for further testing.

10. It is very possible that you have a fish that will test border line even after retesting. You will have to decide what to do at that point.

11. There is also a rumor that Koi can only cause out breaks twice. This is also not true. The Koi in questions immune system would simply become stronger against releasing the virus into the water. But eventually the immune system will become complacent against the virus thus making it more susceptible to causing another outbreak.

Also I know some of you do not get KOI Nations but there is an article in there from Mike Snaden at Yume Koi discussing his battle with the KHV virus. So if you get a chance have a look at that article Mike had trail by fire so to speak.

[Maryanne]

What about false negatives if the fish shows no outward sign of disease?

[Michael Cox]

What about false negatives if the fish shows no outward sign of disease?

Hello,

I touched on that at the end. It is a judgment call on your end. I will not tell you to destroy it or not to.

What I would suggest is that you QT it maybe with a couple of CLEAN canaries and retest it every quarter. I would also suggest that you heat cycle it several times on different occasions to see if you can get the virus to shed.

Hope that helps.

[dick benbow]

I like the article written in KN about what it was like to be a dealer and be involved with the disease-Mike Snaden. Suggest you get your copy out and read it, lots of good info for better understanding....

[*Ci*]

Hello,

I touched on that at the end. It is a judgment call on your end. I will not tell you to destroy it or not to.

I think the poster meant - can you get a false negative on the test? In other words a fish that has the virus but tests negative anyway.

In other other words - is the test really reliable for finding the disease in every koi that has it?

[Michael Cox]

I think the poster meant - can you get a false negative on the test? In other words a fish that has the virus but tests negative anyway.

In other other words - is the test really reliable for finding the disease in every koi that has it?

Hello,

OK I honestly think this is a question that Vickey or one of the Doc should answer.

However, My understanding is this the test that UofG does is looking for anti-bodies. If they are present than I would say no you could not get a false negative.

PLEASE, understand this is just my thought on it for this specific question we will need to contact Vickey.

[Maryanne]

I think the poster meant - can you get a false negative on the test? In other words a fish that has the virus but tests negative anyway.

In other other words - is the test really reliable for finding the disease in every koi that has it?

Exactly.
Thank you.
Point being is it cost effective to test every fish in one's collection
...specificity, sensitivity, disease prevalence, etc.
Epidemiology at its finest.

[Maryanne]

The specificity of a test is the probability that the test will be negative among patients (or fish) who do not have the disease.

Specificty= True Negatives/ True Negatives + False Positives

The sensitivity of a test is the probability that the test will be positive among all patients (or fish) who have the disease.

Sensitivity = True Positives/ True positives + False Negatives

I would like to know if anyone is aware of any such studies as these as regards serology for KHV.

Thanks.

[Michael Cox]

Exactly.
Thank you.
Point being is it cost effective to test every fish in one's collection
...specificity, sensitivity, disease prevalence, etc.
Epidemiology at its finest.

In the end this comes down to an opinion doesn't it?

I personaly would say yes it is cost effect to test every fish in your collection.

Another way of looking at it is. Is it cost effective to NOT test every fish in your collection?

Given the amount of money spent on our ponds and fish I would think the test cost is miniscule. It does not matter what level you are at in the hobby regardless if you are buying $50 Koi or $50K Koi when we add it all up I think most people will be surprised at how much they spend.

Also if your Koi has anti-bodies it has been exposed at some point. Now I am not saying if you have fish that you have had for 10 years you should go out and test all your fish. I am saying any new purchases should be tested for the piece of mind. That way when one does get sick you know the dreaded KHV is most likely not the cause.

If it concerns you on how, who and when do I do all this talk with your dealer/breeder and have them take care of it for you and you simply pay for the service.

Remember I am not telling you or any one else to do any thing but we are the end user and I believe we should be the ones to put some type of protocol together so that when new people enter the hobby we as hobbyist are preaching the same thing (about health anyway).

Hope this helps....

[Skitals]

This made me think... I wonder how many people have KHV in their ponds and DONT KNOW IT! It's the same way HIV/AIDS is so effective at spreading... it takes so long for the symptoms to show up, by the time it does you could spread it to many other people.

[Just Jessie]

Ok, then how about a list of vets that do KHV testing. I have called every vet in the county and they don't know what I am talking about. Can we get a protocol for drawing and preserving a blood sample and where to send it for our vets in order to educate them and make testing available to more hobbyists?

[dick benbow]

most of the vets I know are more than happy to increase their service to the community. I even had one that was so sick of traveling to national aquariums
to do his work, he took a year off to work with koi. End result? He starved to death and went back to traveling "because no one would pay him for what his time was worth ".

[Michael Cox]

Ok, then how about a list of vets that do KHV testing. I have called every vet in the county and they don't know what I am talking about. Can we get a protocol for drawing and preserving a blood sample and where to send it for our vets in order to educate them and make testing available to more hobbyists?

Jessie,

The only thing you will need a vet to do is draw the blood (they have to take responsibility for it) do the centrifuge part and send it off to the lab for testing.

I am not a Dr. and I don't play one on TV but I'm sure you can find a vet that will assist you in this. The other thing that you can do is contact Drs Jason and Jamie Sulliban. I am sure they will be glad to assist in anyway they can. They will at least be able to tell you how to find a vet in your area that will do it.

[WinginSue]

He starved to death and went back to traveling "because no one would pay him for what his time was worth ".

I think this is one reason why it's hard to find vets who work with fish. Once the average mindset is that it's worthwhile to spend some $$ on koi to keep them healthy like we do dogs and cats, there will be vets willing to invest time and $$ into expanding their service. Unfortunately, many folks (and I know a few) figure it's easier just to go get new fish than to spend money on keeping the ones they have healthy.