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    Thread: Sodium percarbonate uses in fish ponds

    1. #21
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by sweetpea View Post
      I am presuming that water temps are not an issue?
      Water temps are not an issue. Sodium percarbonate is okay to use from 40 degrees to 95 degrees water temperatures.
      Started as a full time graduate student in Environmental Science in Jan 2019 at age 77 now to start a new career. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi. Have developed a package of age regression technology to become younger instead of older. Doing great!

    2. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by Roddy Conrad View Post
      The pond "numbers" do not have to be at any particular point to use Green Clean or D-Solv or sodium percarbonate. These three labels are all the same exact material.

      I used much more than the Green Clean or D-Solv bottle label advice for using sodium percarbonate to kill algae. It worked, and cleaned up the brown color of the water and cleaned the yuck up at the bottom of the pond. This is a great option for cleaning up the rock bottoms of Aquascape ponds, In My Opinion.
      I'm very interested in this artical. I have a rock bottom liner pond, I guess that makes it a aquascape type. It's earthquake proof and it looks natural.

      In the past I have vaccumed the 1" gravel rock on the horisontal surfaces. I can't really do much about the bolders against the virtical surfaces. The process is a major pain as I hook a 2" clear ridgid on the end of flex hose and hook that to my 3rd pump and then bypass the bio filter and UVs (just a canister at that point). If I break the seal on this hose assembly then I possibly loose the prime on the pump. But... it pulls tons of crap from the bottom.

      So now my Q: (I've always got some) Do you think this is possibly a replacement for the vaccume job? OR both would be better? OR maybe alternating one then the other?

      Brad










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      Bradley W. Olin
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    3. #23
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      When you drop the sodium percarbonate into the pond, the junk on the bottom rapidly floats to the top as it is being oxidized, so be ready to net it out as it arrives on the surface. This happened in both my water gardens, which are sort of like an Aquascapes pond but without the rock layer in the bottom.

      My point is that the sodium percarbonate should be an acceptable chemical way to clean up the rock layer at the bottom of the pond in a week or two of concentrated sodium percarbonate treatment combined with a net removing the junk which floats to the top with each sodium percarbonate application.

      It will take about 15 minutes after the application before the mess arrives at the surface begging to be removed by your fine net for pond mess.

      The process should save the "empty the pond and hydroblast the rock layer" approach to rock bottom pond maintenance.

      My local veternarian has been doing it this way for several years with his 9000 gallon Aquascapes koi pond installation. But he uses 30% hydrogen peroxide bought through his veterninary business instead of the sodium percarbonate. Either way works swell.
      Started as a full time graduate student in Environmental Science in Jan 2019 at age 77 now to start a new career. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi. Have developed a package of age regression technology to become younger instead of older. Doing great!

    4. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by Roddy Conrad View Post
      The process should save the "empty the pond and hydroblast the rock layer" approach to rock bottom pond maintenance.
      That's why I vaccume. I really don't like the what I think that process does, or it's cost. I have better ways to spend my $$$

      Thanks Roddy. You got my gears turning. (can you hear the squeaking?)

      Brad










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      Bradley W. Olin
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    5. #25
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      Roddy, I may have missed reading it, but do you through the dry material into the pond or do you desolve it in water first then dump it in.


      #7
      Rick

    6. #26
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      I dump the powder directly on stringy algae I am trying to kill.

      Don't drop the powder directly on the skin of a high quality koi, it is possible to have some "bleach effect" on the skin and reduction of desirable coloration. Of course if it drops on the white section of the koi, and sticks there for a while, you may have a superwhite section of the skin, LOL! I doubt you will actually see any bleaching effect, but it is a possibility.

      So that is the only meaningful caution I would mention, don't drop the powder directly on the fish. Drop it on stringy algae if possible. You will see the hydrogen peroxide form and start killing the algae within 10 minutes.
      Started as a full time graduate student in Environmental Science in Jan 2019 at age 77 now to start a new career. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi. Have developed a package of age regression technology to become younger instead of older. Doing great!

    7. #27
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by khoffman19 View Post
      Ordered.
      Now if there was an affordable alternative to Prazi........................
      I never use Prazi. Supaverm is a factor of 20 cheaper than Prazi for killing flukes, and is more effective than Prazi to kill flukes, and I never have any fish reaction problems with the Supaverm.

      I realize this is a controversial subject. But I couldn't let that comment go by on a thread I started without a comment.
      Started as a full time graduate student in Environmental Science in Jan 2019 at age 77 now to start a new career. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi. Have developed a package of age regression technology to become younger instead of older. Doing great!

    8. #28
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      I respect your opinion. No controversy here.

      Kathy in SC
      Lifetime charter Member #3

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      Hi Roddy,

      Thanks for the info on another method to fight string algae. I was wondering if the percarbonate has any effect on a mature bio filter? Second question - what would be the application rate for maintenance at the first sight of string algae. Last question - if you have a deep pond how would you apply the powder to the algae on the bottom. With pond currents you would need to turn off the pumps?

    10. #30
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      I do not expect the percarbonate to have a noticeable effect on a mature biofilter.

      Reduce the application rate for situations where there is less for the sodium percarbonate to control, probably to a few tablespoons per 1000 gallons per week instead of the 2 pounds per 1000 gallons per week I used to clean up my dirty water garden ponds here at the end of winter and the start of spring.
      Started as a full time graduate student in Environmental Science in Jan 2019 at age 77 now to start a new career. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi. Have developed a package of age regression technology to become younger instead of older. Doing great!

    11. #31
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      roddy,
      this great info. my entire bottom and sides are encrusted with aqua kudzu aka string algae. i'm planning on getting in the pond and spooning the percarbonate around. will that work? pond is about 3' deep. do i follow you that the s.p. has no reaction until it actually touches the s.a? also, will i dissolve or just get clean?

    12. #32
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      The stringy algae dies and in about a day starts breaking loose. You gotta net out the dead algae at this point or it will plug whatever your mechanical filter system may be. But it has a quite different character than live stringy algae and is much easier to net and remove from the pond.

      The sodium carbonate will become entangled in the stringy algae then start to hydrolyze making a high concentration of hydrogen peroxide at the strings of algae, and then the algae dies. This takes a few hours, and you will see "bubbling action" from the action of the hydrogen peroxide on the stringy algae.

      I did not bother using a spoon, I just poured the sodium percarbonate straight from the 2 pound jar onto the stringy algae from above. Worked for me in these two "water garden" ponds, deeper ponds may need a different solids distribution technique.

      The sodium percarbonate does not immediately dissolve, that is a good thing since you want it to hydrolyze and make the hydrogen peroxide on the stringy algae itself.

      You will see the pond water start to clear of the "clouds" of stringy algae by the second day as you remove the dead algae.

      Also, any dead crud on the botton floats to the top to be easily netted out of the pond. A good thing, IMO.
      Started as a full time graduate student in Environmental Science in Jan 2019 at age 77 now to start a new career. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi. Have developed a package of age regression technology to become younger instead of older. Doing great!

    13. #33
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      profuse thanks, kind and explanatory chemist. will post pix when it's being done.

    14. #34
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      Doc Roddy, do you have suggestions on the best way to treat
      a "green water" pond? The air defuser is on but not the bottom
      drain and filters. Should I mix in a bucket of water and then pour in
      the pond?

      Thanks!!
      sweetpea's angel
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    15. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by sweetpea View Post
      Doc Roddy, do you have suggestions on the best way to treat
      a "green water" pond? The air defuser is on but not the bottom
      drain and filters. Should I mix in a bucket of water and then pour in
      the pond?

      Thanks!!
      Bump!

      (I just went outside and in the last 3 days my pond has turned to pea soup but a little early to turn on pumps and UV.)

    16. #36
      sweetpea's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by FishOCD View Post
      Bump!

      (I just went outside and in the last 3 days my pond has turned to pea soup but a little early to turn on pumps and UV.)
      Mine went green last fall within a week of turning the uv off.
      It does every year but their colors are unreal in the spring.
      That's when I finally get to see them.

      Because of the weird weather this winter, I want to be able to check
      them out soon.
      sweetpea's angel
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    17. #37
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      I saw them last week and they are very bright (love that) but now... well TGFPO (thank goodness for platinum ogons) as they glow through the algae

    18. #38
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      Thanks Roddy.

      What a find. I just ordered 15 bottles. I use liquid peroxide that you buy at Wally world in my laundry, cleaning around the house, etc.

      This will be a plus to use to clean up things.

      Sandyd
      KOIPHEN ADDICTED


    19. #39
      Harveythekoi is offline Senior Member
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      Someone has to say it.......

      String algae and green water algae serve a purpose. They are mother natures way of regulating things in your closed system pond. If you just kill off either one, and this includes UV's there will be a reaction.

      Whatever these algaes were feeding on is now free to further pollute the pond. If it was handling ammonia production by direct consumption then an ammonia spike could occur. With bio being dormant in the colder weather and many having their mechanical shut down something has to consume the waste from fish and decaying plant material. In most natural ponds there is at least water flow to carry things away and even these will get string algae and green water, again mother natures way of handling things.

      I personally prefer to let the filtration clear things up, but I also understand being impatient. I can't even imagine colder weather places and having such a short time to enjoy the pond.

      But I would recommend this, do not try this until your mechanical is in full swing. Once the string algae is killed if not removed it will decay and lead to other problems even if you get the bulk out right away. This will also allow the bio to catch up as quickly as possible.

      The only plus I see is that besides killing the string algae the oxidation reaction from the peroxide created may help eat some of the decaying organics the algae was feeding on.

      For green water I would be even more cautious in that there is much less for this to react with, oxidants are indiscrimnant, if they can't react with plant or other organics it will with the fish.

      There are no magic elixers, there's a price to pay for everything. Roddy is a chemist and has a better understanding of these reactions than most. The average person should approach using any chemicals in the pond with extreme caution.

      Action = Reaction. Know what's at stake before you kick mother nature in the shins. She has a mean streak and will right the pond with anything in her power including a fish kill to regulate load.

      End of rant,

      Garrett

    20. #40
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      Quote Originally Posted by Harveythekoi View Post
      String algae and green water algae serve a purpose. They are mother natures way of regulating things in your closed system pond. If you just kill off either one, and this includes UV's there will be a reaction.

      Whatever these algaes were feeding on is now free to further pollute the pond. If it was handling ammonia production by direct consumption then an ammonia spike could occur. With bio being dormant in the colder weather and many having their mechanical shut down something has to consume the waste from fish and decaying plant material. In most natural ponds there is at least water flow to carry things away and even these will get string algae and green water, again mother natures way of handling things.

      I personally prefer to let the filtration clear things up, but I also understand being impatient. I can't even imagine colder weather places and having such a short time to enjoy the pond.

      But I would recommend this, do not try this until your mechanical is in full swing. Once the string algae is killed if not removed it will decay and lead to other problems even if you get the bulk out right away. This will also allow the bio to catch up as quickly as possible.

      The only plus I see is that besides killing the string algae the oxidation reaction from the peroxide created may help eat some of the decaying organics the algae was feeding on.

      For green water I would be even more cautious in that there is much less for this to react with, oxidants are indiscrimnant, if they can't react with plant or other organics it will with the fish.

      There are no magic elixers, there's a price to pay for everything. Roddy is a chemist and has a better understanding of these reactions than most. The average person should approach using any chemicals in the pond with extreme caution.

      Action = Reaction. Know what's at stake before you kick mother nature in the shins. She has a mean streak and will right the pond with anything in her power including a fish kill to regulate load.

      End of rant,

      Garrett
      Well said. I am particularly shy about doing anything at all besides water changes until it is warm enough to start the pumps and filters.

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