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    Results 21 to 40 of 44

    Thread: What is an Atarashi Sumi Showa?

    1. #21
      Carl's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      Carl

      BINGO!!!!!

      My Avatar is one of these as well!

      Mike
      Well, "Bingo" is more than I expected and probably more than I deserve, but thanks.

      Unfortunately, this atarashi sumi is going to present more benching problems. The "type" of sumi has often been one of the distinguishing characteristics between showa and sanke, and it may blur the lines between sanke and showa even more where there are close calls. However, I do think improving the sumi in showa has been a universal and generally accepted goal. Time will tell.
      -- Carl --

      You are cordially invited to apply for membership in the WorldWide Koi Club,
      the parent club of Koiphen.


    2. #22
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      My understanding of Atarashi Sumi is as follows:-

      1. It is stable. I.e. it comes up in tosai and remains. Instead of disappearing and re-appearing at a later age.

      2. It is high gloss and has maruzome kiwa.

      We have had little exposure to this in the UK at present and no problems with it yet. Personally there was one koi with it at our 2006 show but it did not cause any benching difficulties. It can be seen on our website under the 2006 Show Results as it took Baby Champ. I saw another example whilst judging earlier that year and although there were some issues with the pattern the koi still said Sanke to me. I haven't knowingly seen a Showa with this sumi yet.

      Here's an article about it that was published in my club's newsletter.
      www.koi-clubs.com/SouthEast/HOT/Hotspot6.pdf - the March 2007 issue
      a small follow up article appeared in issue 7. Our source in the UK was Alan Coogan one of my fellow judges and a friend of Toshio Sakai & Shintaro where the original info originated.

      As for sources of this sumi. Along with Showa, we also put forward a Shiro Utsuri parent that Yamamatsu has, who's parentage was linked to Karasu lineage, but like other peoples comments on here, the man himself is saying nothing.

      rgds
      Bern
      www.koi-clubs.com/SouthEast

    3. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by Bern View Post
      My understanding of Atarashi Sumi is as follows:-

      1. It is stable. I.e. it comes up in tosai and remains. Instead of disappearing and re-appearing at a later age.

      2. It is high gloss and has maruzome kiwa.

      We have had little exposure to this in the UK at present and no problems with it yet. Personally there was one koi with it at our 2006 show but it did not cause any benching difficulties. It can be seen on our website under the 2006 Show Results as it took Baby Champ. I saw another example whilst judging earlier that year and although there were some issues with the pattern the koi still said Sanke to me. I haven't knowingly seen a Showa with this sumi yet.

      Here's an article about it that was published in my club's newsletter.
      www.koi-clubs.com/SouthEast/HOT/Hotspot6.pdf - the March 2007 issue
      a small follow up article appeared in issue 7. Our source in the UK was Alan Coogan one of my fellow judges and a friend of Toshio Sakai & Shintaro where the original info originated.

      As for sources of this sumi. Along with Showa, we also put forward a Shiro Utsuri parent that Yamamatsu has, who's parentage was linked to Karasu lineage, but like other peoples comments on here, the man himself is saying nothing.

      rgds
      Bern
      www.koi-clubs.com/SouthEast
      Thank you, Bern. We really appreciate your input.
      -- Carl --

      You are cordially invited to apply for membership in the WorldWide Koi Club,
      the parent club of Koiphen.


    4. #24
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      "1. It is stable. I.e. it comes up in tosai and remains. Instead of disappearing and re-appearing at a later age."

      I think the above statement by Bern is particularly helpful as that type of information should be known when selecting a sanke or showa with the atarashi sumi.
      -- Carl --

      You are cordially invited to apply for membership in the WorldWide Koi Club,
      the parent club of Koiphen.


    5. #25
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      the term itself,already defined as "new Sumi" is difficult to attribute to which breeder using it. Each breeder works on developing their own improvements. The newest I'm familar with is Toshio Sakai's "marusome" (marr-rue-zoe-mae)
      in which he has developed black to fill an entire scale. This along with the beni getting the same finishing is quite spectacular when both are finished.
      Dick Benbow
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    6. #26
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      What is maruzume kiwa? I have seen it mentioned multiple times in this thread...
      Emily

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    7. #27
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      maruzume kiwa has to do with the finish of the sumi if I remember correctly. Here is an interesting PDF article that explains alot...

      http://www.koi-clubs.com/southeast/HOT/Hotspot6.pdf

      Brad










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    8. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by BekkoIsTheBest View Post
      What is maruzume kiwa? I have seen it mentioned multiple times in this thread...
      Maruzome kiwa is when the color, sumi or beni for instance, follows the shape of the scale in a scalloped pattern as opposed to in a straight line across the scale.
      -- Carl --

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      the parent club of Koiphen.


    9. #29
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      Thanks!
      Emily

      "Love is an unusual game. There are either two winners, or none."

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    10. #30
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      Russ, I have never been able to participate in the grow outs because I did not have a QT but my QT/Hospital tank will be up and running shortly, so I would be very interested in participating when this one comes up. I love Showas.

      How soon do you think it will be? Any idea of price and shipping costs yet?




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    11. #31
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      Russ is gonna throw in a few Ochibas in the growout, right
      -Rain

      :I CAN'T BRING THIS SHIP INTO TRTUGA ALL BY ME ONESIES, SAVVY?:

    12. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by Aussies5 View Post
      Russ, I have never been able to participate in the grow outs because I did not have a QT but my QT/Hospital tank will be up and running shortly, so I would be very interested in participating when this one comes up. I love Showas.

      How soon do you think it will be? Any idea of price and shipping costs yet?
      Barb

      The purchasing stage of the growout is in progress.

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74425
      -- Carl --

      You are cordially invited to apply for membership in the WorldWide Koi Club,
      the parent club of Koiphen.


    13. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by rainblood View Post
      Russ is gonna throw in a few Ochibas in the growout, right
      I was thinking of sometime later but............I will e-mail Miwa Sakai and find out what she can provide. It may take a little bit to find out as they are dealing with Toshi Sakai's wedding this weekend.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    14. #34
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      this is my showa from Toshio

      she'll be 4 this may
      Attached Images Attached Images  
      Dick Benbow
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      member Team Purdin

    15. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by dick benbow View Post
      she'll be 4 this may
      Very nice, it looks like she still has a few years to go but that is what you want from quality.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    16. #36
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      An emphatic bump!

      -- Carl --

      You are cordially invited to apply for membership in the WorldWide Koi Club,
      the parent club of Koiphen.


    17. #37
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      An excerpt from an article from the March 2008 WorldWide Koi Chronicles:

      "The term Atarashi itself, which means "new Sumi," is difficult to attribute to a particular breeder. However, Mr. Sakai has been working on his new type sumi for over twenty years. He is now promoting it as it has been stable for over four years, according to Russell Peters of PSKOI. Mr. Peters has asked Mr. Sakai about his new type Sumi and what he did to create it. The response was just a smile. Later he shared with Mr. Peters that he has not even told his brother how he was able to achieve his Sumi.

      Until recently, there was always a substantial difference between sanke sumi and showa sumi. Sanke sumi originally derived from the asagi-magoi line, and was characterized by a glossy black that appeared above the lateral line.

      The showa sumi derived from the tetsu-magoi line and was characterized by a matte, black that wrapped around the body beginning under the lateral line. Sakai has improved the sanke sumi, which was already thought to be of superior quality than showa sumi, and then brought it to his showa line. In doing so, it appears that he made a greater improvement in the showas than in the sanke since he not only improved the showa sumi to sanke level, he improved the showa sumi to atarashi sumi level in an apparent two step jump in quality.

      According to Bernie Woollands of the South East Section BKKS, Atarashi Sumi is a stable sumi. Once it comes up in a tosai it remains instead of disappearing and re-appearing at a later age. It is a high gloss sumi with maruzome kiwa. Dick Benbow has commented that when the atarashi maruzome sumi is combined with maruzome beni, the effect becomes quite spectacular when both the beni and sumi are finished.

      Unfortunately, this atarashi sumi may present more benching problems. The "type" of sumi has often been one of the distinguishing characteristics between showa and sanke. The higher quality sumi now being present in showa may blur the lines between sanke and showa even more where there are close calls. However, I do think improving the sumi in showa has been a universal and generally accepted goal. Time will tell. "
      -- Carl --

      You are cordially invited to apply for membership in the WorldWide Koi Club,
      the parent club of Koiphen.


    18. #38
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      It's like he somehow bred in a Black Sharpie Pen with his line of showas.....fantastic!
      Ephesians 2:8-9
      faith is a gift, not a personal talent.


    19. #39
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      Stephen just won a major AKCA award with such sumi

    20. #40
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      does anyone in southern CA carry these showas?

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