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  • Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
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    Thread: Here's my question of the Guru Guys who breed and import

    1. #21
      Bill OTMS's Avatar
      Bill OTMS is offline Most Illustrious Koi Dude
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      Good reasons, Roddy. Thanks. Others? And if we could, discussion rather than debate. We could do a debate aspect on another thread.
      Truth Is Truth. You Can't Have Opinions About Truth.
      You cannot ask a fish not to swim.
      It's the only thing that makes him him - Tony Curtis
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    2. #22
      Koin-Onia is offline Koi Kowboy
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      Ok I will thrown in my two cents worth

      I am learning more and more each day. The first thing I want to say is this Buy the koi not the breeder if the breeder happens to go with it then so be it.
      I have been asking quite a few questions lately to a better educated person and he is helping me slowly pound some developmental associations with koi into my head. Kind of the what to espect type of thing.

      Out of all of the breeders I have personally noticed the following

      Matsanoske - very beefy and healthy koi

      Omasako - awesome shiro utsuris of the ones I have seen

      Hosakai - Asagi that are consistent in the groups I have viewed

      Momotaro I really have mixed feeling on

      I have kind of noticed as well if you select lets say a group of 6 koi that you are interested in all worthy of being in the same group. The thing that I have been kinda noticing is the one that just jumps out at you and shows this powerful pressence is probably the one you should really consider getting.
      This is of course if everything else looks good before you get to pattern. I.E.
      Confirmation skin quality health lack of flaws...........
      The Great Smoky Mountains Koi Club

    3. #23
      LeeFamilyKoi is offline Senior Member
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      I dont prefer any breeder........I prefer good/Healthy fish..
      Lets put it this way...I have recieved sick fish from the best breeders...some of them have great koi, but the koi have poor vitality, dont travel well etc etc...
      Evry breeder has the ability to produce good koi, and every breeder also has culls...Some breeders work harder at producing great koi consistantly........But great koi can come from any breeder...

      I dont care too much for Name Throwing when it comes to fish sales...
      There was a guy who bought 28 fish from my auction site two weeks ago..I did not list any breeders names on the auction.....

      3 days later he turned around and listed every koi he had bought from me on E-BAY.......
      Except he Made up names and lied when he listed the koi for sale...He was saying that some of the showa were ...........from Matsunaske..some of the kohaku were from Torazo, etc, etc...

      and in FACT...HE DIDNT EVEN KNOW WHO THEY WERE FROM...
      Point is...Unfortunately, Some people use a name to sell fish...And I wouldnt be suprised if many more people Lie about who the real breeder is.

    4. #24
      CarolinaGirl is offline Inactivated
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      Mr. Lee, that is a prime example of why you should know and trust your seller. As tempting as it is sometimes, I would be really afraid to buy fish from an Ebay seller. I would rather pay more and get fish from someone who I know and trust.

    5. #25
      mike pfeffer is offline Senior Member
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      If you get the opportunity to go to Japan- then buy the breeder AND the koi before you. When I go to Japan, I buy a limited number of koi- 2 to 3. I have an excel spreadsheet where I keep information on 145 breeders, about 2/3rds of which I've never visited and about 95 percent whom I've never bought from. There is no way I could make a recommendation like Bob Winkler did. I don't have that many fish I've had in my pond long enough to know if that particular breeder's fish will stand the test of time in my pond. If I'm buying a kohaku, besides the fish before me, I want to have some assurance that the fish won't shimmie in my pond/water. I like Torazo but the Manzo bloodline tends to shimmie in fairly hard water.

      Back to my statement- buy the breeder also. My personal favorite breeder is Marudo(Mr, Hirasawa). Since I don't intend to spend $5000 or more for fish, I'd rather spend the majority of my money with a single breeder and establish a relationship. I hope that is what I'm doing with Mr. Hirasawa. I bought a Sanke last October, before the earthquake. I asked Mr. Hirasawa to grow the koi for me for 2 years. The Sanke survived the earthquake and with all the turmoil in Nagaoka, Mr. Hirasawa still agreed to grow the fish out for me. I also bought a couple other fish during the same visit. I thought I received some really good value on those purchases- quality fish at good prices. I think that comes with the relationship I'm establishing.

      If you're limited to buying fish from a dealer- buy the fish before you- not the breeder. I have to agree in those circumstances.

      Mike Pfeffer
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    6. #26
      Bob Winkler's Avatar
      Bob Winkler is offline Tooth Carpenter, Wine Drinker, but always Koi Kichi
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      Nice choice and Comments Mike. Marudo/Hirasawa is a good one
      Best Regards,

      Bob Winkler

    7. #27
      mike pfeffer is offline Senior Member
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      Thanks Bob.

      Actually, I'm pretty sure I screwed up. You always hear that your best opportunity to make the "right" selection is in person. However, after I looked at the picture I took(see below) of the four "grow out" Sanke to choose from, I missed selecting the fish that should have been the obvious choice. The fish was even called out by the breeder as the tategoi. But the sumi on the Sanke I selected was so nice I was blinded into the wrong choice.

      Mike
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    8. #28
      kingkong's Avatar
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      Maruten Sanke #2 from left ? I would have fallen for the strong cherry blossom sumi as well. Do you travel to Japan on your own Mike or meet up with a dealer on the West coast? Sorry to here about your bad luck Bob.
      Gary

    9. #29
      mike pfeffer is offline Senior Member
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      Yes, the Maruten Sanke. I'm still kicking myself.

      I travel to Japan and meet up with Mark Bodycott. Every trip gets more enjoyable and my wife is hooked now too.

      Mike

    10. #30
      kingkong's Avatar
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      Thanks, sounds good indeed. That is a trip I would like to do someday. Those koi bowled seem all nice. Are they from Marudo? Did it take you long once you arrived in Japan, to find the quality of koi you were looking for with Mark's help?
      Gary

    11. #31
      junglegeorge12 is offline Senior Member
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      Doesn't part of whether you buy by appearance of a particular koi or breeder depend alot on whether you just want a good koi, or if you are planning to breed them? DNA is the key to breeding success, from what I know, and keeping blood lines pure, much more than just how a particular koi looks. Am I wrong?

    12. #32
      kingkong's Avatar
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      Eluethera JG, am I warm? If I had to do it all over again? I would purchase koi just like dogs, or any other pure bread animal. Show me Ma and Pa and will go from there. The hit and miss, pretty pattern search on 16 inch koi days would be history. So far so good. Planning to see a brood stock the next time I have the feeling to add koi.

    13. #33
      koidoc's Avatar
      koidoc is offline Here Comes The Judge!
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      Mike and Bob,

      Mike makes a good point about buying what you see. I have bought some of my favorites frm breeders that are not in the Koi Kichi Book or on the maps. Just friends that my Sensei Mr. Nagata knows. His knowledge and friendship with all the breeders is priceless to me. We are going again in October. And the positive is he knows where all the breeders have gone to and who has what still.
      If you want to see brood stock before yoy buy then you may never buy a Koi in Japan. They ae many times not kept in the same area and breeders will not disturb them for just anyone. I have seen very few breeders and been there 8 times.
      But even though you buy what you see you still get your favorites that you go back to check each time. You also learn price ranges and where you can afford. If you are looking for particular varieties you have to go to certain places. So you go where you know and then buy what you see.
      Kohaku- Hoshakin, Nogami
      Sanke-Marudo, Marujyo, Gontoro, Torazo
      Showa- Isa, Suda, Yagenji, Torazo
      Shiro- Yagenji up north, Used to be Seki, Tanaka
      Asagi- Hosaki
      Kujaku- Miyatora, Tanaka, Gontoro
      Koromo- Marujyo, Miyatora
      Muji-Isamiya

    14. #34
      koidoc's Avatar
      koidoc is offline Here Comes The Judge!
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      In that Case

      Scott Purdin in Louisianna.
      Gosanke

    15. #35
      kingkong's Avatar
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      Now were talking. Had the pleasure of seeing his kohaku and showa brood.
      Very polite and interesting man. Truely engrossed in his breeding.

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