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    Thread: What do you look for when picking Kujaku?

    1. #41
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      You mean to say they breed Kujyaku X Kujyaku? I would think they would try to add something to the mix. How else could they try to "improve the line" if so much inbreeding was going on?

      Mike
      You mix the best with the best.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    2. #42
      FLABOY08 is offline Inactivated
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      What about the colors on the fins? I like that trait...

    3. #43
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      Quote Originally Posted by FLABOY08 View Post
      Are the orange or kin colors okay in Kujakus or do they want Benis only? Smooth heads means no black marks?
      You've got the basic idea and Russ added about the Ki, orange and beni (red) to elaborate further. No, there shouldn't be any color but white on the pec fins and, IDEALLY, though hard to find an adult, with no sumi on the head. It is considered "acceptable" in some circles if the nostril and eye area are black. But, unless the rest of the fish is really outstanding, it would lose a tie-breaker to the fish with a totally clean head. Personally, I like either, just no "smudges" of sumi on the forehead.

      Mike

    4. #44
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      You've got the basic idea and Russ added about the Ki, orange and beni (red) to elaborate further. No, there shouldn't be any color but white on the pec fins and, IDEALLY, though hard to find an adult, with no sumi on the head. It is considered "acceptable" in some circles if the nostril and eye area are black. But, unless the rest of the fish is really outstanding, it would lose a tie-breaker to the fish with a totally clean head. Personally, I like either, just no "smudges" of sumi on the forehead.

      Mike
      what about a smudge of ki/beni on the forehead? And before you tell me it won't turn out good Russ...I already know. The fins are orange and grey and the head is dirty and the back half has a slight color to it(over the matsuba) but not enough to be considered a pattern. It is still sorta unique and that makes it cool in my book
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    5. #45
      Super Kindai is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Hirogoi View Post
      So which ones do they normally look to keep from the first cull? Just the yellow and black?

      Yes, as Russ said, See post #42.
      In addition to that ("Just the yellow and black"), Hikari/sheen appeared on the eye lids, top of the mouth, etc at this stage.

      Overall, Kujaku probably is most difficult variety to produce among Hikarimono group.....
      As we know generally, Hikari/sheen has conflicting nature/ character about beni and sumi .
      As for Kujaku, vivid red color beni is (preferable) better than yellow, orange color.....( rareness of red, Beni Kujaku....)

      it is based on a good body, quality beni as usual and then good Hikari is a minimun requirment because its a Hikarimono......
      In addition to these, most importantly, systematic Mame (=bean) / Kujaku mon (= matuba' reticulation, small bits of black) in each scale makes Kujaku' singularity among other variety...

    6. #46
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      You mean to say they breed Kujyaku X Kujyaku? I would think they would try to add something to the mix. How else could they try to "improve the line" if so much inbreeding was going on?

      Mike
      Kujaku X Kujaku...
      As far as I know a little about Kujaku breeding, major Kujaku breeders in Japan do not mix others.

    7. #47
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post

      Yes, that is the MAIN goal is to keep Goshiki beni "clean". In the older, original phenotype, the beni had the matsuba netting within it, very similar to Ai Goromo as both were coming from the same parents.

      Mike

      I am wondering if real Ai Goromo were coming from the same Goshiki parents...

    8. #48
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      Quote Originally Posted by Super Kindai View Post
      Kujaku X Kujaku...
      As far as I know a little about Kujaku breeding, major Kujaku breeders in Japan do not mix others.
      Thanks, very interesting bit of info.

    9. #49
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      Quote Originally Posted by Super Kindai View Post
      I am wondering if real Ai Goromo were coming from the same Goshiki parents...
      That's my understanding from how both varieties came about. I would think that "real" Ai Goromo these days have a bit more Kohaku influence within the genetic background, yes?

    10. #50
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      Quote Originally Posted by Luck View Post
      what about a smudge of ki/beni on the forehead? And before you tell me it won't turn out good Russ...I already know. The fins are orange and grey and the head is dirty and the back half has a slight color to it(over the matsuba) but not enough to be considered a pattern. It is still sorta unique and that makes it cool in my book
      Hi Luck ..

      Mine began with a perfect Orange "Tancho" Spot without any of the Blue hue just a lace-like veiled black body with orange smudges and is allegedly Butterfly but has since developed the Blue-ish tinge - little idea of what it is at the mo - with so many variations on the theme

    11. #51
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      So who has examples of exceptional tosai and nisai Kujyaku?
      Beat 162 posts in less than 20 minutes and it's yours:
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    12. #52
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      Quote Originally Posted by Hirogoi View Post
      So who has examples of exceptional tosai and nisai Kujyaku?
      Post #47 has the Tosai. Here are some Nisai.
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      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    13. #53
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      Pick one....................


      Let me do it first.........at this time,,,
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    14. #54
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      Quote Originally Posted by Super Kindai View Post
      Pick one....................


      Let me do it first.........at this time,,,
      Yes, that one is the best one. Kaneko himself said it was the best of the group. Needless to say it sold right away. It is going to Kentucky.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    15. #55
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      Yes, that one is the best one. Kaneko himself said it was the best of the group. Needless to say it sold right away. It is going to Kentucky.
      Wow...... Good one is going out from california !!

      That one looks to me a wonderfull Kujaku indeed.... I have not found that' level at my local dealers during the past a few .... or maybe several years.

    16. #56
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      You know what confuses me a little... Diotsu Kujaku. I have seen some people on some sites call it a diotsu kujaku and other sites call it a kikokuryu (were only talking about the beni or kin ones), the fish looked the same on the other sites. I know the kikokuryu patters change like the kumonryu through out its life span. I would tend to believe that the Kujaku's patterns didn't change but rather maybe some color enhancements.... Thoughts?

    17. #57
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      a kikokuryu is the metallic version of kumonru NOT kujaku
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    18. #58
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      Quote Originally Posted by saltiery View Post
      a kikokuryu is the metallic version of kumonru NOT kujaku
      yes, but they can look similar sometimes
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    19. #59
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      Yeah, and you can look at one site and they say it is a doitsu kujaku but a nearly exact replica on another side will be called a kikokuryu? I know metalic - it's supposed to immulate metal. However, the ones that I have seen immulate red (beni) or orange (kin)?

    20. #60
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      This is a Beni Kikokuryu. Notice the "gun-metal" color shading on the sides of the body? Kujyaku don't get this. You are right however, they can be confused when they are young. Also, the black on the face develops better on Kikokuryu and is considered an important part of the patterning on them versus Kujyaku.

      Mike
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