• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Page 24 of 24 FirstFirst ... 1421222324
    Results 461 to 474 of 474

    Thread: opinion on bakki showers posted on NI

    1. #461
      JPR is offline Inactivated
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      New Jersey
      Posts
      2,182
      Some facts about foam.

      As I mentioned, foam is a combination of organic and inorganic molecules that are attracted to the surface of water- this surface tension can also be created by rising bubbles or the action created by water pounding the surface, such as a TT, water fall or wet/dry like the bakki. The physical evidence of DOCs and POCs is seen when conditions are right. But changes in water temperature, sunlight, pH and barometric pressure will cause a rise, fall, disappearance and recreation of foam. So even in a foam fractionator, you will notice an ebb and flow to the performance ( foam production)- feeding time and early morning being the most productive periods. Foam can be of a dry consistency or a wet one depending on the above factors and the organic content of the water.

    2. #462
      kingkong's Avatar
      kingkong is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jan 2005
      Location
      Miami, Florida
      Posts
      1,826
      Quote Originally Posted by JPR
      Water surface tension is best understood as a measurement of molecules ( mostly organic) that are attracted to the laminar water layer closest to the atmosphere. Based on surface movement, TOC ( total organic carbons/compounds) and DOC, a variable amount of foam is formed. In this case I’m talking about ‘white rafts’ of froth often seen on water surfaces that have high surface tension. These are very stable foam formations and can float for hours binding up both DOC and POC. In scientific terms the water would be said to have high bulk solute concentration. And this creates a surface that is fundamentally different that the body of water at depth. Specifically the viscosity of the surface water is high. The surfactant produced by the fish is a function of rate and composition. But water change or a semi open system design takes the edge off this formation via dilution ( water change) or fractionation ( and removal of foam waste).
      Hi Jr, Can water surface tension be the effect of water molecules attracting each other alone without the organics. Unbalanced molecular cohesive forces at or near the surface of water resembling an elastic membrane of sorts. The bubbles from the turbulent water flow over the TT, then making an ideal collecting spot for organics. Organic waste liking the air/water interface forming a skin around the bubble to connect among others to form foam. In other words, isn't surface tension a property of water alone? Thanks

    3. #463
      tewa is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2004
      Location
      australia
      Posts
      319
      hey Maurice

      Thanks for showing your pics and showing how well the systems run outside of momotaro. 99% of these people have never tried the system yet bag it especially when they only keep low level stocking rates. GEE

      Keep up the goodwork.

      KK
      Thanks for the informative entertainment segment on samurai. You hit JRs pitch right out of the stadium for a homerun. Surface tension can have nothing to do with DOCs.

      JR
      Surface tension can be easily affected by whats dissolved in the water besides DOCs. The surface tension is mainly effected by surfactants forming micelles at the air water interface. These micelles are constantly broken down and formed. They have a hydrophobic region and a hydrphillic region the latter being exposed to the polar natture of water molecules.

      In pure water the surface tension is dependen on temperature and other factors along with the actual surface area of the body of water in ratio to the volume of water. ie if you have a great amount of water with a small surface area the surface tension is greater than the same volume of water with ten times the surface area.

      You could easily flow through water to waste and make it look like the photo you posted. i could cover the water surface in a cup with a layer of liquid paraffin and make it look shiny and clear without any bubbles and increase the surface tension a thousand fold. Ask SMG where her DOCs go in her experiment.


      Finally some information

      FAR INFRARED RADIATION(FIR) EFFECTS ON WATER


      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Far infrared(FIR) electromagnetic waves are found above the microwave band and below the red spectral lines of the visible light band.



      Functional water processors such as the VITALIZER PLUS™ use low level far infrared(FIR) radiation to infuse special properties into water. Constituting the greatest amount of the sun's output, FIR exists in photons of light energy, and has been found to be useful in a wide range of commercial, military and medical applications when synthetically generated by special laboratory processes.

      In the early 1970's the United States NASA organization developed some of the original technology to generate and utilize FIR. Without adquate funding and a lack of vision and directives to pursue commercial or medical applications of this new science, the technology went basically unused until it was stolen by the Soviet Union shortly thereafter.

      The Soviets recognized the tremendous utility of such a technology and spent literally billions of rubles building an exotic research and development facility outside the city of Tashkent in the country of Uzbekistan.

      A group of scientists under the direction of Dr. Rustam Rakhimov then developed a wide range of applications for this highly specialized area of physics - the scientific name which today is called "photochemistry".

      In the following years, this technology was stolen once again, this time by the Japanese who have since integrated FIR technology into everything from hand warmers and blankets to water processors and devote significant financial and human resources to the advancement of this particular science.

      In practical applications (go HERE to see some current, domestic applications of this technology), FIR is generated by gently heating highly structured crystals which are produced in sophisticated, high temperature conditions only available in a limited number of industrial facilities worldwide.

      Photons of light energy radiating in the 4-14 micron band from these crystals can produce dramatic effects on the body's cells, water and a variety of "target" materials.

      Water molecules are resonant at 10 microns and when radiated with FIR energies can react in a variety of manners. Since has memory, as discussed elsewhere in this functional water section, a portion of the FIR energy is absorbed by the water and then can be used, according to various Japanese sources, to detoxify the body's cells by vibrating toxins free from water clusters which may contain these toxins.

      Compared to the Uzbekistan scientists, the Japanese fortunately have no known resources which can produce extremely narrow band FIR energy which can have far more pronounced effects of water molecules. The Japanese(and Korean) FIR energy devices are more "broadband" as illustrated in the figure at the top of this page and thus elicit less cellular response compared to the narrowband FIR capabilities available to the Uzbekistan scientists in Tashkent.

      Research I have personally conducted with the Uzbekistan scientists conclusively proved that narrowband FIR energy at 10 microns will literally explode water molecules. This was determined by producing distilled water when radiating that water from a distance of a few inches with FIR at 10 microns.

      FIR energies are promoted by manufacturers of various water "structuring" devices. These energies are at significantly low levels so as not to endanger human cells which contain countless water molecules. Only in a strictly controlled medical environment is it recommended that the high power, narrowband FIR energy bands be utilized.

      The important thing to remember about FIR is that it has observable effects; unlike scores of processes which use "subtle energy" effects which are difficult if not impossible to measure or observe effects, FIR has physical parameters which can be measured. The effects are dramatic as well - from the evaporation of water to the near-instantaneous destruction of microbes to the rapid cooking of foods, processing of wine, drying of paint, and more recently the successful termination of diabetes in several Malaysian hospitals.

      FIR's effect on water is still being studied, primarly in Uzbekistan, Japan and Korea. Its application to water treatment and to functional water production is presently limited to a secondary role since far more dramatic effects such as hexagonal water clusters, surface tension, oxygen levels and other physical characteristics of water tend to be more important in bodily absorption of water


      ELECTROMAGNETIC EFFECTS AND FUNCTIONAL WATER


      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      There are several categories of "electromagnetic effects" that water scientists(and pseudo- scientists) study and attempt to integrate into functional water capabilities:

      (1) conventional electromagnetic effects that produce highly visible/measurable changes in the physical characteristics of water(i.e. reduced surface tension);

      (2) the use of electromagnetic "information" which can be imprinted or "cloned" into the electronic "memory" of clusters of water molecules(Dr. Lorenzen's clustered water is an example); and

      (3) so called "subtle energy" effects caused by both conventional and non-conventional electromagnetic radiation eminating from non-standard sources such as human brainwaves, earth's electromagnetic field as well as the electromagnetic effects of distant planets and stars.
      The first two categories have a wide range of empirical data to substantiate their effectiveness as viewed in a positive space/time domain. Electrical and electromagnetic forces operating in this positive domain for the most part can be characterized(and measured) with known equations which have as their dimensional properties space(distance) and/or time.

      The third category is promoted by individuals motivated by non-conventional scientific conventions which are best characterized as "alternative science" or the body and soul of New Age, parapsychology and metaphysical thinking

      Few if any solid empirical data exist on the third category which the conventional scientific community places any currency in. Yet, all three categories can be found in the promotion of a wide range of water products on store shelves and on the Internet.

      CONVENTIONAL ELECTROMAGNETIC EFFECTS

      The structural-effect of various ions in dilute aqueous solutions has been studied by Nuclear Magnetic Resonance(NMR) and it has been observed that by increasing the magnetic field, the short-range hexagonal membered bonding and surface tension are changed. Similarly, an increase of water structure can be achieved by adding structure making ions or lowering the temperature.

      Additionally, it has been demonstrated that the use of far infrared(FIR) electromagnetic radiation can influence not only the structure of water but also the viability of micro-organisms subject to that type of radiation.

      The FIR technology was initially developed by NASA in the early 1970's and subsequently stolen by the Soviet Union for use in highly classified applications in the following years. NASA frankly didn't know what they had on their hands but in the Soviet Union, tens of billions of rubles were spent on developing an exotic research center that can be seen to this day just outside of the city of Tashkent in Uzbekistan.

      Research and products developed at this center, the Physics Sun Institute, by individuals such as Dr. Rustam Rakhimov have conclusively proven not only the science of photochemistry but its enormous utility in the fields of water treatment, medicine and a dozen other areas ranging from agriculture to paint drying and food processing (see www.aquatechnology.net/Far_infrared_technologies, html) for details of several practical applications of these advanced electromagnetic effects on water and other materials.

      Ultimately, the Japanese stole the FIR technology from the Soviet state of Uzbekistan and have been attempting to employ FIR in various water processing technologies with varying degrees of success.

      The Japanese efforts have been hampered by their lack of a processing facility such as that in Uzbekistan but that has not stopped them from employing "watered down" versions of FIR in various water treatment devices such as the Nikken PI-MAG water system discussed elsewhere in this website.

      Over the years, research in the United States regarding the use of electomagnetic effects on water and on human health in general have been severely stifled by the pharmaceutical companies and medical organizations seeming more concerned about profits rather than viable medical techniques.

      In reality, there is more evidence that electromagnetic effects are more pronounced in water and in biological entities(human cells) than there is evidence for the viability of stem cells in alleviating maladies such as Alzheimers.

      Ironically, today in many parts of Asia, reputable scientists and medical professionals are successfully using electromagnetics, both at low and high frequencies, to cure or rend cancer cells dormant, alleviate Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and other diseases.

      Industry observers suspect that many "skeptical" Internet websites which bash advanced water research are covertly supported or financed by the orthodox medical and pharmaceutical communities to deny 1st Amendment rights to those whose research must be then taken overseas to find acceptance and produce results.

      One seriously wonders if the medical community really has the patient or their own pocketbook at heart. If, as is being discovered, functional water can play a significant role in the alleviation of various mundane as well as serious medical conditions, the medical community should be the first to embrace such advances.

      Work with electromagnetics will continue, even with the open castigation of scientists who discover alternatives to conventional drug and surgery approaches to patient care.

      TEMPLATE AND IMPRINTING EFFECTS

      A growing body of recent scientific evidence is assisting in the understanding of water's role as a mediator or transducer between the energetic(electromagnetic) and material(organic/inorganic) worlds and its function as an accumulator, transmitter and transducer of energy patterns and information.

      As noted above, Dr. Lee Lorenzen's process is characteristic of this second category of electromagnetic "water conditioning".

      The process begins with extremely pure distilled water and, while it is exposed to special ceramics, treats it with lasers and extremely strong magnetic fields to create water "clusters". Most water is in organizations or clumps of 60 or more water molecules (H2O).

      Processing organizes the water molecules into clusters that are very mobile, therefore entering the cell system very rapidly and replenishing inter-cellular water.

      Concurrent with the water clustering process is a "templating" process whereby primarily hexagonal water rings or clusters are collapsed around organic complexes such as proteins, amino acids and other compounds. Once again, electromagnetic effects are aplied to this water-protein complex using the latest in ceramic and laser technology.

      Prior to the end of the Process the protein base is removed.

      The result is a semi-liquid crystal that resonates at a designated and predictable frequency. The specific frequencies in each crystalline Clustered Water solution are designed to be amplified by the cells of the human body, and transferred through resonant paths to tissues in need of "tuning".

      Most present day medications react with the body chemically, very often with complicating side effects and lengthy periods of prescription. According to Dr. Lorenzen, the goal of the Clustered Water Template Induction Process is to create nontoxic water solutions that favorable impact biological systems through completely safe coherent energy transfers, using cell systems themselves, much like a fiber optic cable transfers data.

      This process thus exhibits two major advantages:

      (1) the clustering process reduces the grouping of water molecules to smaller numbers, principally hexagonal in form which permits more rapid and efficient hydration through the cellular membrane; and

      (2) the use of water itself, with its now unique frequency or resonant energies, as a carrier of information destined for the interior of the cell(s). This eliminates the pharmaceutical issues of prolonged and most likely overdose and side effect characteristics of conventional drugs.
      It is virtually impossible to watch the cable or network TV today and not see some pharmaceutical company hawking a new drug which seems to have more side effects than the malady it purports to be eliminating. Technology such as high efficiency hydration coupled with the templating process may be tomorrow's answer to overdoses and side effects from both over the counter and prescription drugs.


      Using bioimpedence, as noted below, it has been shown that these solutions cause significant cell water turnover more rapidly than distilled, R.O., oxygenated or regular water.

      In 2003 the Chinese Health Care Science and Technology Society organized an international cooperative research project to compare distilled water (DW) and one kind of US patented Microclustered Water (MW), called "VIVO", which was awarded by the US National Nutritional Foods Association as the "Best Nutritional Beverage in Year 2002".

      Recent Bioelectrical Impedance Analysis (BIA) studies also showed that diabetics had a lower ratio of intracellular water (ICW) / extracellular water (ECW). A total of 336 type 2 diabetics (blood sugar level >7.0mmol/L) from 5 hospitals were recruited in a randomized, double-blind trial.

      In this study, about 45% of the subjects (147 patients) had relatively higher blood sugar levels (>8.3 mmol/L). All subjects received 250 ml of MW or DW twice daily for 4 weeks. To avoid over-dose absorption, subjects were advised not take medications within 30 minutes after drinking the test solutions.

      BIA (RJL Systems, USA) and other clinic markers were performed weekly. It was observed that MW consumption improved cell water distribution (ICW/ECW), basal metabolic rate (BMR), phase angle (PA) and cell capacitance (CP) during the 4 week test period.


      In the beginning of the study, there were no significant differences between DW group (75 subjects) and MW group (72 subjects) comparing four BIA physiological baseline parameters (P>0.05).

      However, at the end of the experiment, the P values (MW vs. DW) of ICW/ECW, BMR, PA and CP were 0.025, 0.022, 0.007 and 0.009, respectively.

      Oxygen-17 NMR half value spectra of MW are 64 to 67HZ, values approximating normal saline, plasma and fresh natural spring water, while DW half values exceed 115 HZ. The relative small size of the water cluster may be one of the mechanisms which lead to improved cell structure and function.

      SUBTLE ENERGY EFFECTS

      When one hears the words "subtle energy(SE)", most likely those words are used in a context similar to how Einstein used it, that is, to describe a type of energy that is at present not fully understood or measurable with today's equipment.

      The term Subtle Energy (SE) is of recent origin. SE could mean a physical energy, such as electromagnetic or acoustic, that is of such low intensity science currently has no means of measuring its presence. Conventional electromagnetic sensors are not sensitive enough to directly discern these fields. In short, SE is a physical field which is of very low magnitude.


      Several scientists in the United States (Tiller, Bearden, Rein, Putoff, Green, Srinivasan) have studied SE and its effects. Though each has developed his own nuanced theory of SE, in general they all tend to concur that SE phenomena is related to a type of unified energy, and is not just a physical field of very low magnitude.

      Furthermore, these theories vary in their definition and conditions which must exist in order for SE to be generated and observed. Some of these scientists view SE as a "fifth force" operating on the galactic and inter-galactic scale which is even more difficult to detect than gravity and which has zero effects on biological systems.

      Others believe some of these forces have the potential to affect biological systems. Finally, there are are the mystics and clairvoyants who attempt to relate these energies to Hilbert Space. These views fall into the New Age and metaphysical domains which are of no interest to this discussion


      Contemporary quantum physics has mathematically described and predicted the presence of a unified energy which underlies conventional transverse electromagnetic (EM) vectors. The concept of a subtle energy underlying EM fields was first introduced by Bohm and Aharonov in describing quantum potentials as an implicate order "embedded in" our normal 3-D space. SE proposes that an additional implicate order is embedded within the quantum potentials.


      According to the SE apologists, this higher-dimensional space is composed of an energy which has been called time-reversed waves, non-Hertzian waves, longitudinal waves, scalar waves, or zero-point energy. Chi, Tachyon, prana, orgone, and other names are commonly found as descriptive of these supposed electromagnetic characteristics.


      The classical EM fields have been under investigation since the laws of Maxwell were established more than 150 years ago in England. Science knows all about these physical fields; we can generate, manipulate and use them for purposes such as long distance communication, computer applications and measurement techniques that are proliferating all around us. However, detailed knowledge regarding SE fields is virtually non-existant and expanding slowly.

      There have been hundreds of studies trying to determine the purported existence and effects of SE. As would be expected, these studies range in quality from being of very high quality in terms of design methodology to those which are seriously flawed and utterly worthless. Note we used the descriptive "design methodology" versus "results".

      The issue at hand is whether or not such energies exist and can be imprinted or placed in water and then, when ingested, perform some type of bioelectromagnetic process on the body's cells.

      Many individuals firmly believe this can be done. They sometimes describe their methodology of determination to be "intuitive" rather than scientific.

      As we said above, one can find all types of subtle energy devices and products created therewith on the Internet. Serious practitioners in the functional water area stick to the electromagnetic processes described in either (1) or (2) above.

      Happy reading

      tewa

    4. #464
      sundan's Avatar
      sundan is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2004
      Location
      Lake Wales Fla
      Posts
      2,090
      Hi JR,

      I appreciate that putting molasses into the pond is basically putting a compound into the water that becomes dissolved. But, this is an intentional addition. As for the foam you saw... do you really think that that much foam would appear in a pond that had only been running for a week?

      I understand your concerns, but you haven't tried the systems, so all you can do is stick to your theories... fair enough.

      Lets forget Momotaro's ponds for the moment, and remember that there are ponds in England running on Showers, and recap...

      DOC's will register in a TDS reading. Most closed circuit ponds will have a TDS reading that is far higher than the fresh water that is being added to the pond. This indicates that the pond is overfed, overstocked, or just lacking in maintenance.

      Accumulated waste in a system will breed bad bacteria, create excess ammonia, and cause faster depletion of KH levels.

      So, first lets look at Colin Hughes pond. He lives in Swansea, Wales. Mains water TDS is about 50ppm, and pond TDS runs between 70 and 80ppm. Prior to switching to Bakki Showers, Colin could not maintain a stable pH, and KH levels kept falling, necessitating the addition of Bicarb, and the use of Lithaqua. Ammonia levels (albiet low) were always present. Since the big switch, Colin has never added Bicarb, and has removed the Lithaqua. His KH level now sits at 1.5dh, which is only a little lower than the mains water, and Ammonia levels are now undetectable. Water clarity is better than ever, and there is no colour at all to the water. There is no skimmer, and there is no foam on the pond, despite the showers returning as two waterfalls.

      Ian Graham... he had two trickle towers before on his pond, in addition to two parallel filter systems. One of the towers also had an add-on extension. Ian used to experience many health problems with his Koi. He now runs three sets of Showers, and no other filtration. Health problems are a thing of the past according to Ian. Even when Koi jump out and hit his statues into the pond (during a power cut), the Koi needed no treatment for injuries, they just mend themselves. Ian's surface skimmer is broken since the Koi snapped of the flap. So, he now has no skimmer. Yet, he has no foam or brown water either. Ian is so happy with his pond, that he now now built a new pond for growing Tosai. This pond is 3800 gallons, and has two sets of Showers connected directly to the drains (no settlement). The pond matured within five weeks. (ammonia an nitrite cycles). Neither pond has a UV.

      Cliff Neale put two sets onto his 18,000 gallon pond. He was so happy with the improved water quality and clarity, that he added two more sets. He was so happy with that, that he then built an 8000 gallon pond running solely Bakki Showers. He was so happy with this that he then built another Bakki Showered pond of 2000 gallons. Cliff's ponds have no foam, and no brown colour to the water. He has no UV's on the new ponds.

      Craig Attwood put a set onto his 5000 gallon pond. He was so happy, that he added another set, and removed his previous filtration. He has no foam

      Keith Harris put a set onto his 1700 gallon pond, as sole filtration. He had constant nitrite problems with his filter system. This system matured within 5 weeks, has no skimmer, no foam, and no brown water. The pond is open air.

      James Cater saw Ian's pond, and was so impressed that he built a 10,000 gallon pond, solely Showered. Jon Mak did the same. Bothe are ecstatic with their ponds. Both have no foam or brown water... but it's early days.

      Maurice has a set. He was hoping to create bubbles just like the ones he saw at Momotaro, as he thought that he could bottle it and sell it to children. So far, Maurice is devastated.

      My 4400 gallon pond has two sets. It also has no UV, and no skimmer (I took thge collar off). It also has no foam. TDS rund at 115ppm at present, and Koi have consistently grown at 1cm per week in this pond. Current stocking level is about 250 Koi of up to 34cm, from about 20cm. This year, I have not injected a single Koi. And, in the event of a Koi jumping out, I just throw the Koi back in... it heals every time. If Koi become damaged by netting, or hitting the showers, I just watch them for a couple of days until the damage fixes itself.

      Clearwater Koi have a set. Wayne loves it. I have no more info than this though. Sorry.

      Mark Gardner has a set, but it's to soon to tell.

      Dave Palmer put a set onto his 13,000 gallon pond, as he was fed up with green water, blanket weed, and not being able to see his Koi. He is a happy man, and can see his Koi. Blanketweed receeded quickly after fitting the system, but I would expect that with any trickle filter.

      Bob Hancock came to see me saying that he was fed up with keeping Koi and was thinking of packing in. He fitted a simple trickle filter to his pond with 20kgs of media, and is now enthusiastic again.

      Numerous people have used the media submerged, even just placing it on top of existing medias. All have reported that appetites are dramatically increased, waste form in settlement has changed from solid faeces, to becoming as pile of dust.

      Every person that has used the media has noticed an increase in appetite, not just in showers.

      Mr Chen from Taiwan, who in my eyes iis the best dealer in the World outside Japan, tried other medias in Showers, including a Chinese equivalent to Bacteria House. Mr Chen told me in October that the oother media didn't work, only Bacteria House worked.

      As far as FIR goes, I can post up other links to web sites, including NASA. But, there is no point in this, as I am not a scientist, and cannot prove such widespread claims. All I can do, is tell people what my experiences with the systems are... sorry to disappoint.

      Momotaro. All I can say is that they have produced the biggest Tosai, Nisai, Sansai, Yonsai, and Gosai of any breeder, year after year. They have thoroughly tested this media, and it has cost them an absolute fortune to change to it. Would they really sacrifice even one centimetre per year for the sake of making money from this media? Maybe. But, they also add OMX (lactic acid bacteria) to their ponds, which costs them a fortune. Do they sell it?... no. Could they sell it?... probably.

      So, all I can say is that if I cast aside all of the theories that people have about filtration, do the systems work? Ask those that use them, or try them yourself to prove them wrong.

      One last note in ref to Cliff Neale. He bought a Momotaro Sansai Kohaku from me last year (March) at 61cm. This Spring, he expressed his disappointment that the Koi hadn't grown. In Autumn this year, I took a group of "Koichat" member's to Cliff's pond. We measured Koi, and the Kohaku had grown to 63cm. Three weeks later, it was 65cm. We also measured numerous other Koi that had never grown... thay had all grown! Cliff then put some five year old Koi (previously non-growers) into his new 8000 gallon showered pond. Two weeks later, he pulled three Koi up... all had grown 2cm. Spooky stuff isn't it, must be the aliens.

      Ian, Cliff, and Colin are now striving to grow a Go-Sanke from Tosai, to over 80cm in their Showered ponds. One of these Koi will be over 80cm before it's 6th Birthday, and I promise to prove it.

      Best regards,

      Mike.
      __________________
      www.yumekoi.com



      http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/showth...omotaro+photos

      Click for Lake Wales, Florida Forecast

    5. #465
      ShiroMujiGirl is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2004
      Location
      Top secret location: AREA 51
      Posts
      125
      " Ask SMG where her DOCs go in her experiment."

      Tewa, they went over the side. Just like all my submerged filter ponds DOCs went over the side with the outflow water, off the surface. This is a part of any biofilter's maturation. When the filters matured they handled the DOCs. This takes at least a year.

      Now, when I turn off the flush water in the Bakki pond, there are no DOCs anymore. Just like there are no DOCs on the mature submerged filter ponds.

      There may be FIR. But lava rock must have it too since it gets the excact same results.

      Maurice would get the same results if he had used lava rock I'll bet. But England is a limestone island, is it not?

    6. #466
      stephen's Avatar
      stephen is online now Koiphen Member
      WWKC Lifetime Charter Diamond Member #2
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2004
      Location
      Koiphenville
      Posts
      33,020
      Mike Snaden



      Nisai

      http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/image....&dateline=2004

      Join Date: Dec 2003
      Location: Bristol, England, UK
      Posts: 101





      Another opinion....................Copied & pasted from Koi Bito





      Hi all,



      Have just been reading this thread, having spoken to Tewa a few days ago.

      I can't really understand why people here are getting so hung up over the FIR aspect, as though it is all that matters?

      To my mind, the only point of any importance, is the 'real world' results. Theory, and science are nowhere as important as the the 'actual' results of running Showers. We have had Showered ponds running for long enough now, to know that there are no long-term problems or disadvantages.

      The people that buy Showers are most influenced by the 'maintenance-free' aspect. But, to my mind, the single most important factor of the Showers, is the condition of the Beni in Showered ponds. Why?... think about what generally happens to Koi in the hands of a breeder...
      Generally, a Koi will always have it's best Beni condition when harvested from the mud pond. It may appear a little pale, but this is because of the nature of the waters effect on the pigment cells. What I am saying, is that to some extent you should imagine the pigment cells as being like coral, in that they stand up in good water, and populate strongly. Put them into lesser water, and the will then tend to lie down, perhaps to try to protect the Koi? This makes the colour much redder, but also damages the Teri (lustre) of the colour. But, when they are in this state, some of the cells then don't fourish as well, and hence die off, making the colour look redder, but thinner. A Koi kept in a breeders pond will slowly deteriorate in this way, and can quite often do this to the point where some of the scales will have no colour pigment at the tip of the scales, making the scale tip appear transparent. This won't generally bother a breeder too much, as he will be safe in the knowledge of knowing that this kind of deterioration will be easily fixed up again when the Koi is put back in the mud pond for the next season.
      Now, consider what happens to most Koi that are kept in hobbiests ponds... can you see any similarities in your Koi? I think that most people would say yes, if they were to pull up every Koi and inspect them closely? But, if I compare my 8000 gallon pond, to my Showered ponds, it is clearly evident that the Beni of the KOi is in the absolute best condition possible, and maintain this look despite extremely fast growth. I feel that this is the Bakki Showers absolute best benefit, particularly when you see the same thing with other peoples Baki Showered ponds. I feel that the increase in appetite, and hence growth, is the second best benefit.
      To further this... take a look at Cliff Neale's twice GC Sanke, measuring 85cm as six years old in 2003, and now 93cm as eight years old. But, despite the ageing, and growth, the Beni of this Sanke is at it's best ever, and will probably improve further, whereas most previous Show winners usually re-appear at the Koi show the following year in a far worse condition. Bearing this in mind, what do you think will happen when you try and raise a Koi from Tosai, to become a potential Gand Champ? In most cases, this would be so challenging, that it wouldn't be worthwhile trying. But, people like Cliff Neale, and perhaps a dozen or so others in the UK, are now capable of raising small Tosai (24cm ish), to become Nisai of extremely high quality, and 68 ~ 71cm.
      So, the bottom line with this is that yes, Bakki Showers and their running costs, are expensive. But, if you on the other hand put in moderately priced Koi (perhaps average £500 each) into the pond, and then achieved wonderful results, then the costs of a Showered pond become pretty insignificant.

      I can't understand why someone would want to devise some oddball way of 'testing' Bacteria House, where the 'real World' results woudn't be apparent, or why people test this media in a pond, and compare with another media, when they haven't even stuck to any of the 'rule of thumb' running principles in the first place? There is only one way to test it, and that is, to build a pond that is correctly utilising the media, and then run that pond with real Koi, with real potential, with an aim of getting 'real results', as opposed to trying to prove that it won't work!

      Any doubters here should take a trip to England. I will happily arrange and pay for your accomodation, and take you to see every Showered pond I know of. You can then speak to the owners, and see the Koi for yourselves, and then decide if it's all just 'hype'!? I'm not joking here, I'm serious!

      Best regards,

      Mike.

      Heck, I'll go out an photograph some Tosai I have raised myself if you wish, and then we can all comment on what we think of their futures?
      __________________
      www.yumekoi.com




    7. #467
      JPR is offline Inactivated
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      New Jersey
      Posts
      2,182
      Mike, I think you will become the new waddy!

      As stated a dozen or so times now- yes wet/dry and TT action can bring additional benefits to ponds. And depending on where the newbie is starting from, the benefits can be more or less remarkable. In other words, it is relative to former conditions.
      I will be over for the Northern ZNA show in two weeks so maybe I can take you up on that offer?
      The reason for testing BH ‘differently’? To understand how it really works and where the media limits are and where the hype and misunderstandings begin. Why do we ever test anything really?

      Tewa, thank for regurgitating back to me what I've said about FF, the charge of water and organic molecules and water tension. Now I say, snow is white and the skies are blue—I await your argument---
      JR

    8. #468
      JPR is offline Inactivated
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      New Jersey
      Posts
      2,182
      Kong, I agree that water surface tension can be strong or weak and a lot of descriptions of 'GOOD WATER' by advanced hobbyists and world class breeders revolves around the look of a water's surface. A very fluid surface with a silky shine is usually observed in good water. So as tension builds and a skin forms to water surface, we also observe other things. Bubbles, yellowed water, 'thick water' are all common observations when water is 'off'.
      Since the thin layer between the air and water is the zone that gets so charged, organic molecules are 'sticky' when it comes to physical properties. This is what gives that water surface the strength to hold a bubble in place. And you if collect these bubbles as one does in a FF scum cup, you will see and smell the actual collected materials once they are concentrated over time. IT is true that temperature and barometric pressure play a roll. But this means that the best( least) surface tension is exhibited under certain conditions and not an absolute comfirmation of the absence of DOCs. When oxyen is high and the pH/carbon dioxide model is in a certain phase, even DOC rich ponds will have bubble free surfaces. JR

    9. #469
      kingkong's Avatar
      kingkong is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jan 2005
      Location
      Miami, Florida
      Posts
      1,826
      Thanks JR, just help me thru this a little more. Dissolved organic carbon (doc), like soap and detergents can come under the heading of a surfacant, compounds whose surface is defined as active. The (doc) seek the surface and air interface due to balance and alignment of hydrophile and hydrophobes molecules. Active because the (doc) will tend to migrate to the pond surface binding to air and water. This would now reduce surface tension in water producing a measurable change depending on the concentration. Would the water appear dull? more capable of bubble formation? And could you feel this layer of (doc) between your fingers as slightly greasy? A pristine water surface with no surfacant compounds and strong surface tension would then be wet and shinny?

    10. #470
      JPR is offline Inactivated
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      New Jersey
      Posts
      2,182
      I would suggest that surface appearance would be different depending on ‘species’ of DOC that was dominate? DOCs can be protein based, carbohydrate based or lipid based. Fish food byproducts ( either passed through the fish or broken down by bacteria), fish slime, algae contents all make up a mix or chains of molecules. But when visible to the naked eye, we are usually looking at POCs on the water surface. Since DOCs are by definition ‘dissolved’ they are not usually visible until this foaming action is encouraged. I have seen ponds with really poor circulation and over crowded conditions that actually form slicks of lipids combined with particulate matter floating on the surface. And many of us are familiar with the yellow stain in water rich in protein and natural dyes produced by algal and bacterial action. If the water foams you have the combination but if it is yellow and doesn’t foam you are looking at organic dyes.
      This brings us back to the idea that pond water- water in a closed system- is in a constant state of deterioration. Desirable things are being lost and undesirable things are being built up. The only reliable intervention for long term insurance is a water change. In between, sump flushing, moderate feeding matched to the limitations of a given pond, foam fractionation, carbon or resin use, clay etc. will help keep the water ‘sweet’.
      The mystery of bakki shower marketing is – where does this DOC and POC go? If the answer is it is in circulation and removed by constant water change then fine! We should be able to measure that. Bacteria count will reveal some of the answer. Foam fractionation study should provide more evidence. I’m using a POWERED Euro foam fractionator at some point to measure foam content. An expensive unit at $2000 but a super performer. JR

    11. #471
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
      Roddy Conrad is offline The Koiphen Chemist
      is At age 78, doing well as a
      full time graduate stud
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      Charleston, WV, USA
      Posts
      3,282
      The 10 gallon stacked aquarium shower filter test is pointless if distribution plates are used to block any decent filter media degassing. A spray bar would give it some chance for success, using a distribution plate guarantees the test will perform no better than the poor cycle time seen in typical submerged media filters.
      Started as a full time graduate student in Environmental Science in Jan 2019 at age 77 now to start a new career. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi. Have developed a package of age regression technology to become younger instead of older. Doing great!

    12. #472
      Bill OTMS's Avatar
      Bill OTMS is offline Most Illustrious Koi Dude
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2004
      Location
      Loch Liam
      Posts
      4,412
      1. What Are Far-Infrared Rays?

      Infrared radiation accounts for over half of the energy emitted by the sun. The remaining energy is emitted in the form of visible light.



      Infrared radiation comprises wavelengths from 1 millimetre to the longest wavelength of visible light, from 5.6 microns to 14 microns wavelength. This range, also known as radiant heat; was discovered by the English astronomer Sir William Herschel in 1800. Herschel found, by putting a thermometer at various points in a prismatic spectrum, that ordinary light transmits some heat but that the effect is even more marked beyond the red end of the spectrum (Far-Infrared).

      Infrared radiation is readily absorbed by many kinds of matter and is thus effective in warming the substances on which it falls. Because it is more penetrating than visible light, such radiation lends itself to many kinds of practical application, one of which is drying.




      2. Traits of Far-Infrared Rays

      ...

      A. Radiation

      Radiation refers to the aspect of FIR (or any wavelength of light in general) in which energy (heat energy in this case) is emitted in the form of particles and waves, transmitted, and absorbed by matter. This ability to exist as both particle and wave is called electromagnetism, manifested in FIR as well as all other spectra of light.

      Other types of light, such as microwaves, travel as heat energy. However, in order for FIR to have a heating effect they must hit matter and reflect off its surface. This phenomenon is responsible for the cold temperatures at high altitudes. On mountain peaks, for example, surface area decreases greatly, and there is less matter for infrared rays to reflect from, or for "resonant absorption". Thus heat is not emitted.




      B. Deep-Reaching Effects

      Ordinary heat (or lack of heat) does not affect our internal bodily organs or functions because they lack the ability to deep-reach. Our average body temperature of 36.5 Celsius is not affected to any substantial extent by fluctuating environmental conditions. Even extreme conditions such as the -42 Celsius environment of Alaska or the 50 Celsius water of a hot tub do not cause our internal body temperature to approach either -42 Celsius or 50 Celsius.

      Unlike environmental temperature conditions, or even visible light rays or close-infrared rays, FIR rays have the ability to penetrate deeply (up to 1.5 inches) and permeate thoroughly into the hypodermic layer of a person's skin. Thus, it is possible to revitalize human cells and tissue by warming the body from the inside. Again, this warming is made possible by the heat energy transfer of the far-infrared radiation (previously discussed). ....
      Attached Images Attached Images  
      Truth Is Truth. You Can't Have Opinions About Truth.
      You cannot ask a fish not to swim.
      It's the only thing that makes him him - Tony Curtis
      Sign up today at




    13. #473
      okra is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2007
      Location
      SoCal
      Posts
      371
      Why discuss FIR's legitimacy when BHM only claim a few percentage higher FIR than other media? Don't they know that trapped craps in those BHM decompose, generating heat, and that higher temperature = more FIR?

      Why don't they build shallow ponds, to heat up the water more, to get more FIR? Why don't they add more FIR from the sun by aiming some mirrors at the BS to heat it up? IF they want more FIR for the pond, why shade it?

      Assumption hurts! If they can't take the pain, they shouldn't be making claims. Why feel sorry for the name calling?

      I made comments about hideous looking 8' tall TT some weeks ago, before reading this thread today. I didn't realize it's so common. The more I read on this board, the more I realize that this board lead people to using poor techniques. To be fair, this board has some great info.

      I can't believe that so many people get caught up in FIR. If they want FIR for themselves, why not go lie in the sun, naked? FIR underwear...

      Do you want me to go on and on about more PHO?

    14. #474
      jjlanotte's Avatar
      jjlanotte is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2007
      Location
      ohio
      Posts
      114
      Wow this was a long read.. i think im gonna use lava rock
      Keep your chin up, learn from your mistakes, and never give up on your passions.

    Page 24 of 24 FirstFirst ... 1421222324

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •