DIY # 3 Piping

[geraldlim]

Hi Bill,

I want to follow the plumbing shown in this picture using the ALTERNATE FEED PIPE ROUTE. I asked if that would work (see my post on page 2) and Kent said “it will collect air bubbles at the high point”. This seems to work (based on water level vs. pump location). What do you think? I am presently following the ALTERNATE FEED PIPE ROUTE from the BD directly to the pump (for the last 2 months without any issue) and I want to inset a S/C between the BD and the pump (like the one shown in this picture).

Thanks,

No. IMHO Kent is right - will collect air bubbles in the high point. You may get away with it if direct to a pump with enough power to pull the air bubbles down, but gravity feed - I doubt it (unless there is a huge draw down). Of course, you could always prove us wrong.........

[birdman]

Yes,it will collect air and stop flowing. If you have to up,over, and back down then it has to be piped direct into the pump suction. No vortex.

[sworley]

Self Priming Pumps are designed to be installed above pond water level, and to be able to self prime and suck the water up hill. What we need to do is install a swing check valve in the suction line going to the pump to hold prime. Always use a full flow swing check. Never use a spring check valve. The spring check has a spring in to to force the flapper shut, while a swing check the flapper opens with flow and shuts with water pressure. Also make sure the swing check has a hole and flapper the same size of the pipe. Some cheap swing checks might fit 3" pipe but will only have 2" flappers.

It's best to install the swing check as close to the source as possible, right off the bottom drain or right off the skimmer.

For the pump to self prime the priming pot needs to be full of water. We can fill it with a garden hose, but with out a swing check it will just drain back into the pond. With a swing check installed, as we fill the priming pot, air will bleed out and the entire line will fill with water, making priming instant as soon as we start the pump.

I wondered where I was suppose to put that swing check valve!Can it be added to the skimmer line closer to the pump?

[boggen]

swing check valves need to be placed below water liner of the pond.

all valves, (check, ball, knife) valves should be accessible. so if you ever need to replace them you can. check valves can and do get stuck open, and they do go bad eventally. so making sure you can service them can be important.

[action21]

Skimmer piping is a little different. Most of us run the skimmer to some kind of mechanical/fines filtration, in many cases, Sand/Gravel filters hid behind the water fall. And many of us in colder climates want to shut down out waterfalls for the winter as to not chill the water.

So if we shut down the waterfall filter, we need some way to drain the line for freeze prevention. This is one way I do it, complete shut down. i will show a bypass later.

Your pump will be the low point for draining all skimmer circuit lines. So the piping from the skimmer has to run down hill to the pump, and the piping to the waterfall filter has to run up hill to the filter so it can be drained out the pump low point.

When winterizing, lower the pond level below the mouth of the skimmer. Then simply pull the pump and bring it inside for winter storage. Now you can drain both lines into your filter pit. Here's another reason I recommend a gravel floor vs concrete in your filter pit, for drainage. As long as you keep your pond water level below the mouth of the skimmer the lines will stay drained and not freeze.

Is this based on an external pump? I don't see the logic behind putting shut off valves next to pump if this is submersible. I'd have to get into the pond everytime.

[mudcatslim]

Bird Man is the bomb isn't he? As usual, a wealth of why did I not think of that's. Everyone contributes a lot of good info on this site. That is why I bookmark it and always return to it. You guys rock! O.k. enough with the butt kissing. lol

[maaxx]

If you put a check valve in the bottom drain and it is set in concrete, what do you do if it becomes defective. Couldn't you pur the check valve near the pump.

[Steve511]

Forgotten on my list was a check valve.

Great thread!

[birdman]

If you put a check valve in the bottom drain and it is set in concrete, what do you do if it becomes defective. Couldn't you pur the check valve near the pump.

Put it in an accessible spot, as far away from the pump suction as possible.

[reefcartel]

following

[TooManyPets]

Hi, I am a newbie with a stupid question. I am planing on building an in ground koi pond with an in ground settlement chamber. What exactly is the settlement chamber bottom drain get connected to to get rid of the accumulating muck? I keep seeing mysterious "waste" on all the diagrams. What exactly does that mean? I am not sure there are any drainage pipes 3.5' underground to dump into. If I try to bring the muck up to the plants on the ground level, wouldn't the muck end up accumulating in the pipes? Any help clearing this up would be greatly appreciated!

[RichToyBox]

Waste is where the waste is dumped to. Some have the benefit of a sloped yard, where they can put in piping going to the ground level and sending it out onto flowers or woods. Some install a sump pit with a sump pump that is used to pump the waste to some place higher than the previous. Some have tapped into their sanitary lines, not sure that that is legal, and some have sent it down storm drains. Determine where you want the waste to go, and then figure a way to get it there, either by gravity or by pump.

[LoriP]

When installing a Retro Drain many people can't go through the liner, or just don't want to. So the piping will have to go up over the edge of the pond, then back down into the filter pit. This will not work. The high point loop will trap air and the pump will never prime.

So to fix this, all we need to do is install a high point bleed with a valve. If you installed your Retro Drain correctly you also put a Swing Check valve right out of it.

Normally to prime your pump you would fill the priming pot with a hose, but in this case we have to fill our high point air bleed. Start by opening the valve going into your pump, and close the valve going out of the pump. Now with your hose fill the high point bleed. Water will go back wards to the BD and air will bleed out. Water will also do down to the pump and the air will bleed out. Once you have this line completely full and all the air out, close the bleed valve, open the pump discharge valve and start the pump.

When going through the side wall instead of up and over, due to the pond having a bowl shape with sloped sides is it also problematic if the pipe is sloping downhill as soon as it exits the liner outside the wall in order to meet the same angle as the pond wall so the bulkhead can be flush rather than proud of the wall? If the pipe is set level the upper part of the pipe has to protrude further into the pond than the bottom, creating what seems to me, stress on the liner,or at least the need to leave slack that creates a fold in the liner over the top half of the pipe. Is air lock not going to be an issue if it's all gravity, open system to gravity filters? So if the pond is ever drained and gets below the level of the exit pipe, being open would allow it to vacate air as the water level rises back up? Seems right but I don't want to find out I'm wrong after I've back filled. Thanks