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  • Page 234 of 243 FirstFirst ... 134224231232233234235236237 ... LastLast
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    Thread: ki shusui project with a twist :)

    1. #4661
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      Orlando, thanks for your support!
      We are sure to have a pull in Oct. Assuming favorable conditions.



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
      Kichi loves company. Max


      K-POTY 2014

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    2. #4662
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      Pulling the BIG Pond today. :yahoo: Pics to follow

      Good Morning Team KI

      My first post about the Ki Shusui Project was September 2009.
      I had bought 27 koi that seemed to be right according to the formula available at the time.
      Shusui. Doitsu lemon Ogon. Ayawakaba. Midori. and one or two doitsu lemon hariwake -- that was the "twist."
      It was glorious fun because I had this brand new half million gallon mud pond, just dug.
      But the "twist" made metallic fish = and shusui is not metallic.

      I started again and in 2012 and that resulted in more midori that was humanly or fishly possible.
      Also a small percentage of real ki shusui.
      The folks at Yamanaka Ohya already knew what I came to learn - Midori was the key fish to use to get ki shusui.
      However that lesson was learned by me in 2014 when i had a trial intex spawn without the midori who had passed by then. The offspring were awful.

      But by then I knew and the 2012 ki shusui offspring that looked so good -- see in my siggy line --had produced a million midori and a few tada -- ki shusui.
      Those were my F1 generation.
      As Bindi told me at the time, I'd skipped two generations with this 2012 spawn and how and why are still a mystery that I credit to that original midori = see him in the line-up below.

      The steps that produced midori and from there ki shusui: s -- shusui x ogon = midori. midori x midori, also midori x shusui = ki shusui.

      So, I had rudimentary ki shusui in 2014, F1 gen, and was then looking at 4 yrs for the fish to mature and spawn.

      Russ and Marilyn came out here to Smalltown New York and sexed the best of those F1 ki shusui four or five years ago.
      That was a real learning experience for me; sexing koi and there's a link in my "obnoxious" siggy line thanks Mr. Rainblood and after that pull of the Big Pond, I had a group of
      Ki shusui oyagoi.
      I still have most of them and they are in the Big with original Japanese grandparents, muttagoi from these spawns that i watched to see what would happen.

      One thing that happened in 2017, May 18 or so was a spawn in the lower pond, aka "the nursery."
      John Clark who does the actual pulling and catching here once or twice a year, looked at that 2017 spawn and said, "I think you hit the motherlode."

      Whoo-hoo! Thousands of baby fish, too cute for words, schooling and performing and making happy sounds when i showed up to feed them. So I took pictures every day as they made fishy aquatic dances, waves, hurricanes, and they played in the aeration making Busby Berkley dances, a fountain of little fishies.

      That Fall, there were six thousand and several hundred little ki shusui and midori and similar types about 4 inches long.
      I sat in a chair in the pond as nets full of these babies were brought to me and I sorted them down to 750 babykins to grow on.

      John Clark took home 5,700 baby koi and I kept 750.
      None of this program is according to Hoyle but as an old optimist I was "following my bliss."
      I broke the 750 winners into three lots - The best 250 stayed in the Lower pond (nursery) and the next best 250 went to the Big and we will see many of them when I post today's pictures.
      The last 250 went into the "Learning Curve Pond" aka Middle pond which we are pulling on Oct. 20th.

      Today, when John arrives at 10:30 in his blue truck, "Northeastern Aquatic Fish Hatcheries" logo on the doors, we will wade into the Big and see how those 250 have fared and say hello to my old friends from F1,
      and original koi from Yamanaka Ohya.

      Rain is in the forecast, but good for the fishies. By four or so this afternoon, we will have reduced the fish load in the Big.
      And on Wed. the 15th, we will pull the nursery.
      We have reduced the numbers over the years to about 100 but these F2s will be 4 year olds in May 2021 and I wish to pick out my oyagoi now.
      The culls will be redistributed and many will go to John and I'm hoping 8 -10, F2 oyagoi will winter over in the lower pond, and get ready to spawn in the spring.

      It's pretty exciting because this is a very unorthodox method of line breeding and so far, good results and maybe better than that.
      So now you're up to date on the Ki Shusui Project with a Twist.

      In about four hours, John will drive up in his blue truck and there will be a few socially distanced folk who were willing to come out in the rain.
      I'll give you a wrap-up at days end.
      Wish us luck.

      It's Oct. 13, 2020 -- harvest day in the Big Pond.
      Cu later,


      Max
      Last edited by Koigrl; 10-13-2020 at 06:47 AM.



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
      Kichi loves company. Max


      K-POTY 2014

    3. #4663
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      Photos!

      Well, it rained, but still a good day to be ki. We pulled some 400 koi and uncounted little tiny ones. We pulled Rosey, last years's grand champ (b) at our virtual koi comp. I do love this fish. (Just look at my expression -- goofy in love) She lay peacefully in her tub, by herself, allowed petting and sweet talk from visitors, and was calm in my arms. She is about 11 y.o. now and i give all credit to her breeder at Hosokai that her markings, zip, and face have stayed so clean. Due to rain, we didn't take photos of more than a few individual fish, but overall there were quite a few clean ki shusui. Smudgy ones were rehomed, but we kept dozens here mostly, F2s from the 2017 spawn. I've shown a representative tub of them. We did give away or send home with John Clark about a hundred 3 y.o.s, which lightens the fish load in this pond and allows us to add in fish from the lower pond (nursery) which we will be pulling on Thurs. Oct. 15.
      Other people took photos and I will add the best of them as I get them.
      Please excuse the sideways pics and thanks for joining us in this space!

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      Last edited by Koigrl; 10-17-2020 at 07:19 AM.



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
      Kichi loves company. Max


      K-POTY 2014

    4. #4664
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      Very nice, you have a bunch of beautiful koi love the picture with you holding the koi

    5. #4665
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
      Very nice, you have a bunch of beautiful koi love the picture with you holding the koi
      Thanks, Orlando. I was sleepless thinking about the pull and all the pieces and parts but i hung in and got to hold Rosey.
      More fish on Thursday!
      See how the F2s are doing and if they made some F3s without telling me.



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
      Kichi loves company. Max


      K-POTY 2014

    6. #4666
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      Looked like Rosey was purring.
      --Steve



      Koiphen 2021 Koi Person of the Year!

    7. #4667
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      Looked like Rosey was purring.
      She was!!
      Steve, she let everyone pet her. Water was very cold!
      She's become an old hand at this drain and seine thing.



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
      Kichi loves company. Max


      K-POTY 2014

    8. #4668
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      Great photos Max! Rosey is a star! I bet she just jumped up into your arms!

    9. #4669
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Matt24 View Post
      Great photos Max! Rosey is a star! I bet she just jumped up into your arms!
      Hi, Matt,

      John showed me how he does it --- rests the fish on his forearms -- then he passed her to me. He can pull a 4 acre pond with a rowboat by himself! I'm looking forward to seeing how many other fish will let us hold them like that. Who knows what they're thinking? Maybe. "I smell pizza."




      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
      Kichi loves company. Max


      K-POTY 2014

    10. #4670
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      Quote Originally Posted by Koigrl View Post
      Good Morning Team KI

      My first post about the Ki Shusui Project was September 2009.
      I had bought 27 koi ....
      Max, thanks so much for this "Cliff Notes" history in post #4662! I found it really helpful in understanding the whole story better, and it will be helpful in understanding future posts as well. When I joined the forum, I think there had already been over 1300 posts on this thread. So this concise review is helpful for those of us who did not experience it all as it happened.

      Very much looking forward to the 2021 spring happenings!

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    11. #4671
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      Quote Originally Posted by Matt24 View Post
      Max, thanks so much for this "Cliff Notes" history in post #4662! I found it really helpful in understanding the whole story better, and it will be helpful in understanding future posts as well. When I joined the forum, I think there had already been over 1300 posts on this thread. So this concise review is helpful for those of us who did not experience it all as it happened.

      Very much looking forward to the 2021 spring happenings!
      Matt, I'm very glad for your company on this bizarre journey. And I don't know what possessed me to do the Cliffs notes but am very glad it gave you an idea of my byb mania from 2009 to today~!
      and so now I think I have

      B R E A K I N G N E W S

      Sighted by two fellows who got a head start on draining the nursery saw small fry.

      I did not see them, and too small is not that viable over winter, but I will know for sure tomorrow.

      If we do in fact have Fry, this means we've achieved F3 at year 11 and to the fishes, they did the dance with no help from me.

      So you know why this breaking news is a surprise:
      The Lower Pond Nursery is almost entirely covered with our special outsize 43% protein, 5% lipid duckweed ( ) but it's true. I believe the Blue Bird with his six foot wingspan made these fish just so uncomfortable that they stayed under the blankets and we haven't seen more than one at a time for over a month.
      Now I think I know what they were doing

      So do we have F3?
      are they big enough to survive what is likely to be a long cold winter?

      We will still go with the sexing/sorting program and leave the best 8 or so in the Nursery for the winter.

      Will report back late in the day.

      Matt, Orlando, Steve, thanks for the
      I'll save you guys some pizza.

      Last edited by Koigrl; 10-14-2020 at 09:08 PM.



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
      Kichi loves company. Max


      K-POTY 2014

    12. #4672
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      Back early in the year I had expressed to you over email that I was considering coming up to experience your pond pull, the reason I couldn't make it was about 6 weeks ago a blew a tire (ankle) at work, going in for an MRI here soon I just wish I could have been there, please save me a male for my river pond

    13. #4673
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
      Back early in the year I had expressed to you over email that I was considering coming up to experience your pond pull, the reason I couldn't make it was about 6 weeks ago a blew a tire (ankle) at work, going in for an MRI here soon I just wish I could have been there, please save me a male for my river pond
      Orlando, sorry to hear about your ankle. It's too bad you can't take a drive. I just don't know how to ship and for some reason its going to be in the 70s here tomorrow - probably 80s where you are.
      write if you have a thought or consider coming next year. i'm sure i will have spares since i seem to be running a no-cull shelter.



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
      Kichi loves company. Max


      K-POTY 2014

    14. #4674
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      Quote Originally Posted by Koigrl View Post
      Orlando, sorry to hear about your ankle. It's too bad you can't take a drive. I just don't know how to ship and for some reason its going to be in the 70s here tomorrow - probably 80s where you are.
      write if you have a thought or consider coming next year. i'm sure i will have spares since i seem to be running a no-cull shelter.
      There's absolutely no rush shout acquiring a male for my river pond for just males just don't forget about the back cross

    15. #4675
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      I don’t know how you have the energy to do it every year Max
      M.Nguyen


    16. #4676
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by OCkoiFan View Post
      I don’t know how you have the energy to do it every year Max
      mitchie, i crapped out at around 2:00 p.m. on Tues. We had sorted out the 400 fish into net baskets. 1. to take pics. 2. to give away. and everything in between, went back into the pond. John says he was ready to work until 9 p.m. taking pics of a couple hundred nearly identical pale blue koi with dark zips and varying spots of ki on cheeks, sides and underbellies. and I said, "Release the hounds into the lake." He couldn't believe it. But that's what we did. You''re right. Super exhausting but i was over tired and just couldn't. gave away some shusui that would please noobies, john took 50-something that were smudging, and the rest are relieved that it's over. Pond is 4/5 full already. yes!
      tomorrow, nursery -- so i guess i should pack it in for the night!



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
      Kichi loves company. Max


      K-POTY 2014

    17. #4677
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
      There's absolutely no rush shout acquiring a male for my river pond for just males just don't forget about the back cross
      Hi, Bud.
      We tried the back-cross last year. Added in 3 fine F1 females thinking the boy fish would be pretty happy. No action. Then I had a realization. Check me on this. Given that the selected fish are siblings or more probably cousins, in that i am doing multi-fish crosses, not just two boys and a girl, but dozens, i'm as good as back-crossing. In other words, there's no guarantee any two fish in the line have the same parents or even grandparents. the japanese originals were not related. their offspring were related -- there's the line -- but any of them could have one, or two parents in common or maybe parents who were siblings or half siblings. so i think i'm getting the effect of back-crossing. When you see the photos, you'll see how similar the F2s are, yet not nec. direct sibs. but def. of the same line. This is part of the reason I just looked at a basket of 200 fish and said -- don't need to photograph them. you'll see what i mean. John still put a half dozen in a plastic tub so we could compare. See last pics in my post of the pull. ki shusui. related? yes. same parents? doubtful.
      goodnight all. CU tomorrow.
      Last edited by Koigrl; 10-15-2020 at 12:29 AM.



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
      Kichi loves company. Max


      K-POTY 2014

    18. #4678
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      Big fat koi ;) Results of the Lower Pond Pull -- Part 1

      It was gorgeous today here in Smalltown, NY.
      We had a small group of guests, all very enthusiastic about the fish under the microscope: F2 ki shusui hatched in May 2017.

      I think I've been a little too rough on my cameras all these years, because none of three worked flawlessly.
      However,
      Photographer Mary Moeller was in our company and she shared 21 images and more to come.

      David Farren manned the clickers and here's the count
      There were 113 koi in the Lower Pond.
      There were NO FRY.
      Of the 113, 16 were returned to the Nursery for further consideration as Oyagoi next May 2021.
      About 8 were rehomed.
      The remainder --80 something- were sent to the Big Pond where they will meet their parents, grandparents and assorted other koi with genetic elements of Ki Shusui.

      John Clark did one pull of the pond and I'm sure he got them all. John
      Sean and Monty, Liam and Sage, took pix, filled buckets and tubs, made this hard work possible. Thanks to them, too.
      Here are a few of Mary's photos.


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      Last edited by Koigrl; 10-17-2020 at 06:41 AM.



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
      Kichi loves company. Max


      K-POTY 2014

    19. #4679
      Matt24's Avatar
      Matt24 is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Koigrl View Post
      ... There were NO FRY. ... 16 were returned to the Nursery for further consideration as Oyagoi next May 2021. ...
      Sounds like a really fun day! I'm interested in which ones are the "Shusui 16" if you have their pics? Mostly those in the black tub? Any thoughts on why there were no youngsters?

    20. #4680
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      Matt and all. The ki shusui 16. Part 2

      Matt and all.
      In this post and previous, the sixteen are in the tub alone. The singles in the above post are also of the sixteen.
      The full tub -- those are the 80 or so that were sent to the Big.
      Of the 16 -- I will see how they look next Spring.
      They can change in a snap!

      Why no babies..... I don't know. John suggests they didn't get enough light due to the duckweed.
      On the good news side, these kids are only 3.5 y.o. I've been told better for the girls to be 4 y.o. so crossing fingers for next spring. Our plan is to pull the pond first week in May, delete much of the duckweed and John Clark will lime the pond. The 16 will be kept aside while we refill he pond and winnow 16 down by half. Then refill the pond put the best 6-8 back into the nursery with our best wishes for a good frisky time.
      Will let you know right here if we see splashy-splashy.

      The turtles were sent to the eco pond; it's un-netted, where we put turtles and its a watering hole for wild things who wish to have a drink.

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      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
      Kichi loves company. Max


      K-POTY 2014

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