ki shusui project with a twist :)

[Koigrl]

I had an idea to try to breed the "elusive ki shusui" in my new mud pond.

I purchased my brood stock and after eight and a half months of quarantine in the basement for the winter, i liberated them in July into the freshly dug mud pond, spring-fed, about 400,000 gallons in full sun.

The first nine fish: 1 female shusui, 4 midori, 2 doitsu lemon hariwakes (their markings are predominiantly platinum with a splash of yellow) 2 aya wakabas.

heres all i knew about the genetics of my stock.
shusui x ogon = midori
midori x shusui = aya wakaba.
What makes ki shusui?
so, i figured adding the hariwakes would give me some yellow to help the ki in the ki - shusui.

I introduced these fish to the pond on 7/3 and they spawned three days later. i put the breeding media into a net basket to protect the eggs, and when the fry hatched, they swam into the pond.

since the pond was brand new, there may not have been enough microscopic pond life to support all but the hardiest. some fry did survive.
And then I added more fish. To be cont'd shortly.

(Note to guests: If you see only 28 pages on this thread, click on the ki shusui link just below in the signature line to be taken to the full version of this thread.)

[Koigrl]

I became enamored of doitsu lemon hariwakes. i fell hard. I purchased four new hariwakes and another shusui for the project, and after quarantine, added these five to the "lake."

In three days, these koi also spawned and again, i took out the spawning brushes and kept them safely in a net basket. This spawning flourished.

[Koigrl]

There was a third spawn -- don't know when -- and i think it produced more hariwake babies. very little evidence of shusui involvement, you you tell me. Here are some baby pictures taken yesterday.

so, no ki-shusui. a heck of a lot of babies who look hariwake, possibly platinums and yellow ogons and a few random reddish colored babies.

and now the big question: what to name all these fish?

[Koigrl]

if anyone has thoughts on what i have, bone structure, coloration, and can offer advice on how to choose the keepers, i'd appreciate it. i'm thinking i will let them all winter over in the mud pond and seine them next spring.
thanks, all.

[Koigrl]

more babies...

[Koigrl]

and there are still a lot more where these came from ...

[Tommygug]

Nice Fry....I'll take some of the doitsu lemon hariwakes!! It looks like you may have some kohaku also. I find culling the hardest part of raising fry. The first pass get rid any fish with deformities, any fish with no color, poor patterns or bad scale patterns. If you don't, it gets tougher as they get bigger. Good Luck

[Koigrl]

tommy, you're not too far away from me. stand by.
we'll seine the lake next year.
i haven't seen one with a deformity and since they are swimming free, i'm kind of spared the hard awful work of culling, at least for now. i guess the winter will do some culling for me, after that, i'm not sure what i'm looking at apart from the hariwakes. all of them appear to be doitsu.
have you ever seen a midoriwake? i think i have the first one on earth!

[Marilyn]

Looking good Max! All those cute little bobblehead babies. Gotta love 'em.

[Koigrl]

mar, i'm obsessed with them!
how am i supposed to be a god-like personage and decide to kill any of them?
isn't that midoriwake a scream?

[DebbieKSW]

I bought a doitsu hariwake this year.A little one.A lot of yours seem to be keepers so far.
On post no 4 there is one with a blue line down its back..shusui I think.

Keep an eye out for those too.

[Koigrl]

hi, debbie, i like that little critter. i have also seen some two-tone guys with a zipper. the ayas and midoris are part shusui, so i'm not surprised to see the shusui traits show up, but it sure seems that the hariwakes have been busier.

[Tommygug]

Nice, the first of a new type!!! The Japanese breeders will be jealous! good luck with them...I will wait and be patient. I have brought a few hariwaki's but I don't seem to have any luck with them....yet. I have about 300 hundred fry I am trying to move before the winter gets here...little by little

[Marilyn]

mar, i'm obsessed with them!
how am i supposed to be a god-like personage and decide to kill any of them?
isn't that midoriwake a scream?

They all are Max and I'm so glad you're enjoying the journey part of this.
The best you can do is "remove" any with obvious defects and deformities. It's your pond and you get to decide how god-like you want to be.

[Koigrl]

mar, they all have ten fingers, ten toes.
tommy, you said colorless ones are not keepers. how do you know if they are colorless or plat? rather, how old do they have to be for you to know?

[tnthat]

Good work Max. Just finished the new book. Good fast read.

[Koigrl]

Thanks, Tom. Glad you liked it!

[Tommygug]

mar, they all have ten fingers, ten toes.
tommy, you said colorless ones are not keepers. how do you know if they are colorless or plat? rather, how old do they have to be for you to know?

I wish I knew how to answer that...I breed Sanke and Kohaku's thinking they would be easy...not so.. My first spawn, two years ago had a lot of platinums but not doitsu's. The fry were bright white almost from the beginning, mine were mixed with a bunch of flatter colored white fry. When they got larger you could tell for sure they were not platinums... I hope that helps...

[JUDELT]

OOH! Pretty . These (lemon Hariwake) are my dream fish to aquire!

[Koigrl]

possibly breaking news -- or maybe the sound of a breaking bubble -- but i'm happy tonight. this little guy certainly resembles "the elusive ki-shusui."
jud, i've got a lot of those little hariwakes. stand by, lol.
i'll post pictures another day.