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Tommygug
06-24-2009, 10:16 AM
This is my first post, so hopefully I will get it right...I am new to this forum but not new to koi...I been hooked for about 10 years, 3 ponds later. Last year was the first year I attempted to raise the fry from my koi. What a learning experience!!! This year I did a controled spawn. I used my better Kohaku's and Sanke's. Everything went perfect, the eggs, the daphnia(Billions) the date 5/16. I now have thousands of fry 5/6 weeks old showing promise! Sorry no pictures, but I will get some later today if the sun ever comes out again!! NY!!!! My question is about culling...I don't have a clue, I have been reading everything I can get my hands on, which is what lead me to this forum. So far the I have separated the tobies, removed as many deformed fry as I find. The Kohaku's are just starting the get their Hi, the Sanke's seem to fall into two groups, both groups have sumi...perhaps to much on most! Some have turned white and some have not. I do have a lot of peach colored fish as well. My thought were these should be the first to go but thats where my lack of experience shines...Any help or direction would be appreciated

rainblood
06-24-2009, 10:54 AM
Welcome.

Follow Junichi's thread http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96301

Culling depends on what you are looking for.
For Kohaku - you cull anything solid color (no pattern) and/or no tail stop.
But if you are just looking for "nice fish", just cull deformities and rehome the rest when the time comes

Tommygug
06-24-2009, 11:03 AM
Thanks, I will read his thread. Last year I didn't cull, I had around around 800 fish 3/5 inches. I kept 5....I don't think I have enough friends to give all the culls away this year..I estimate 2/3 thousand right now. Do i cull now at 5/6 weeks or wait until they are older/larger 7/8weeks?

rainblood
06-24-2009, 11:37 AM
What? You can't give away 2-3K culls? You need to network more :harhar:

There are a couple of other big guns breeding this year -

http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94755

http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93884

lukef
06-24-2009, 11:43 AM
t
you have not addressed the most important aspect of successful koi raising...the amount of water you have to raise the fry. Since you failed to post that i feel as though you are destined to fail as you are not aware of the basic tenant of fry rearing...massive amounts of good water for each fish.
Seriously??????????????? you need to feed all the fry to the koi except for a couple of hundred... reduce the number of fry to one per 15 gallons of water. If you had a green mud pond you could have 1 per five gallons.
If you do not do that you will have slow growing, stunted deformed fry.

Tommygug
06-24-2009, 09:43 PM
I have been reading the other threads you suggested, great info...At least I know which direction I am headed....thanks

I went through my 300 gal fry pond, taking all of the larger fry 3/4 to 1 inch out and lets not forget the tobies. I moved them to a 600 gal tank overflowing with daphnia. If anything, I have learned how to grow daphnia!! I have added a few pics to this post. The two females I used, plus some pics of the fry. They seem to be coming along nicely. Much nicer than the mass spawn fry from last year...will try to post some pics....
I still have not attempted culling yet, perhaps in a week or two

Tommygug
06-27-2009, 12:03 PM
Hopefully, my photography skills will improve...Over the last few days I have been going through my fry tank. I have been moving the larger fry to their new digs...a 600 gallon, my QT pond. I have removed all of the tobies, and culled anything that was deformed or way too dark.... Has anyone ever had a quality tobie? I took a few more pics. The fish are growing nicely, my daphnia production is no longer keeping up with the fish. I will go and buy some flakes today reluctantly, any suggestions as what to buy? I am beginning to see some hi on the larger fish...It's like waiting to see what my wife brought me for my Birthday...The suspense is killing me...
Tom

Tommygug
06-28-2009, 10:45 PM
Here are some much better pictures, The fry seem to love flake food...I did some water changes 50% in each pond. The fish with sumi I'm assuming are Sanke. I am hoping the hi comes in soon. I spawned Kohaku's and Sankes but I have noticed quite a few fish with a lot of blue in them!!

Midorigoi
06-29-2009, 02:13 AM
You are going to get some NICE FRY!!!! Those two females you posted are great!

Tommygug
06-29-2009, 10:46 AM
Sorry Lukef,
I just saw your post or I would have responded earlier...Last year, I was able to raise about 100 fish to 3/6 inches by October but knew enough to only keep about 10 to hold over the winter.
I currently have a 600 gal & a 300 gal grow out ponds...I just ordered a 1000 gal Intex but it will take at least three weeks to cycle and have it full of daphnia. I do a daily water change on the small pond 50/60 gal. The larger one I trickle in 75 gal a day. The water in both ponds test well, nitrites way down, no noticable ammonia, ph 7.3/ 7.5. I have not added any salt but I will be doing that slowly over the next week...
I learned about density levels last year by accident! Several fry (6) managed to get into my upper pond 2000 gal/10,000 lower pond. I have an algae scrub where I grow Iris(hundreds) They survived with no food/2 of them without any light. In October, they were the largest of the spawn. One of the fish that grew in total darkness was dirty white/gray in the spring. It is now almost a decent shusui, everyday the quality of the color improves. It may wind up to be the nicest fish from that spawn.
I am having a difficult time culling, I have removed almost 500 fry so far. The kohaku's are just starting to show some hi, so I feel I need to wait a little longer before I go through them. The sanke's are going to be even more difficult because the sumi on a small fish can be quite misleading. I will remove some of my "promising" fish and post their pictures and ask for some advice. My hat goes off to the Japanese breeders, my guess is they would keep 10 of my 3000 to grow out...my pain which ten!!!

Tommygug
06-29-2009, 06:53 PM
Here are a few more pics of some of my nicer fry....the fish in the small bowl have only been fed daphnia since birth 5/16 except for the Beni Kumonryu looking one. He came out of the main mix. The ones fed just the daphnia seem to have more color and much nicer growth. I will continue to feed just Daphnia until they get too big for it. My big guys saw the camera and wanted me to snap a pic of them as well!!

ODA195
07-03-2009, 03:34 AM
Daphnia arrived today, any advice how to grow them? BTW, you have very nice fry I sure hope mines will be as nice as your.

Tommygug
07-04-2009, 12:27 AM
I use old water, rainwater, pond water...Never anything that comes fresh out of the tap....a little air. and feed them yeast and/or spirulina once a day or when the water gets clear....Let them multiple a lot before you start harvesting them. I use a kiddie pool or my 300 rubbermaid tub.

Super Kindai
07-04-2009, 02:16 PM
The two females I used,


I am curious to know about a combination of the parental koi.
it was Kohaku x Kohaku (male) and Sanke x Sanke (male) or other combination?

Tommygug
07-04-2009, 11:44 PM
This year, I had planned on a controlled spawn. I was going to pair a female Kohaku to a male Kohaku and a male Goshiki. Then pair the Sanke with two male Sanke's. After empting 3/4 of my pond, to get those six fish into one of my spawning tubs it was really late. I was going to separate them in the morning thinking I still had a few weeks till they spawned....Last year they spawned on 6/7 this year 5/16. The six of them spawned that night. The fry are mixed, getting nicer every day....I am going to start culling, I will post some pics in a few days

Tommygug
07-19-2009, 10:51 PM
It's been a few weeks, I have culled most of the fry. Compared to last years mass spawning these fry are a lot nicer. I wish my camera skills improved as my as the fry!! I have attached some photo's. Tomorrows photo's will be clearer...I hope

rainblood
07-20-2009, 09:25 AM
What exactly are you culling for? Just deformities or a specific variety?

Tommygug
07-20-2009, 10:31 AM
I am removing all deformed fry, bland fish. I am going to start removing the fish with a lot of black on top. This is more of a learning experience for me, I am hesitant to cull to quickly because I want to know I am disposing a fish that should be disposed of, not that I think it may be no good. I will take some better pictures tonight of the nicer koi. Right now I have three growout ponds going with about 2000 gallons capacity. Some of the fish are 2 inches already! I am feeding them daphinia and flake food 3/4 times a day. Water changes daily...

Tommygug
07-20-2009, 10:01 PM
Finally, I taken some downloadable pictures....these fish have been feed mostly Daphnia and in the last two weeks flake food has been added. I am interested in what you think about the fry...

Tommygug
08-19-2009, 08:27 PM
After seeing all of the new fry pictures being posted I figured I should see how mine are developing. My water is green and I only catch glimpses of them when I feed them. I went half through my 600 gal tank....Over three hours... I was amazed at the size range, from 3/4" to one decent kohaku at 4 1/2". I put that one in my pond before I snapped a pic...Newbie!!! I would have purchased her 2 years ago!!!!I didn't see any GC's(yet). I took some pictures of what I thought are promising. Overall ,I think they are much nicer than last years mass spawn but I would love to here everyones' opinions. My wife's was "nice...when are you going to clean the dog!"

DebbieKSW
08-19-2009, 08:55 PM
Hi mate,
they look really well and have grown nicely too.
If I were you,which I am not,I would be thinking just what do I want to aim for with these.
Mainly Kohaku pattern,not too much sumi,maybe one or two "different" looking ones.Good body shapes as well but be picky.I guess it is hard...

Tommygug
08-19-2009, 09:39 PM
I have decided to only keep a few....maybe 10 just to see how they grow out next year. I will be selling them in the spring to a local pet shop to help offset the cost of raising them. Next year, I will be more careful when I spawn them. I wanted to spawn Kohaku and also Sanke. I wound up with a mass spawn of the two types...

Koijazz
08-25-2009, 03:20 PM
My thoughts are how I envy the size of your fry! Do you know how old the female was? I'm thinking the fact that my female was only two has some effect on their size.

JasonG
08-25-2009, 07:25 PM
I have decided to only keep a few....maybe 10 just to see how they grow out next year. I will be selling them in the spring to a local pet shop to help offset the cost of raising them. Next year, I will be more careful when I spawn them. I wanted to spawn Kohaku and also Sanke. I wound up with a mass spawn of the two types...

Thanks for posting all of these photos...I really appreciate it! Following the whole process has been very cool and I can't wait till one day I end up with a spawn to raise. Even if they were all junk fish it would still be exciting for my first time.

Thanks again for posting, it has been fun to follow and I think you have some beautys in there.

Jason

Tommygug
08-25-2009, 09:55 PM
My thoughts are how I envy the size of your fry! Do you know how old the female was? I'm thinking the fact that my female was only two has some effect on their size.

Both my females were born in the spring of 2006 which makes them 3 year olds. I have noticed the older females produce many more eggs than the youngsters. I have separated the fry by sizes as they were growing, some are 4/5 inches and some still very small 1". Some of the nicest fry are still less than 2". It seems the ugly mutts grow the fastest!

Tommygug
08-25-2009, 10:02 PM
Thanks for posting all of these photos...I really appreciate it! Following the whole process has been very cool and I can't wait till one day I end up with a spawn to raise. Even if they were all junk fish it would still be exciting for my first time.

Thanks again for posting, it has been fun to follow and I think you have some beautys in there.

Jason

your welcome....I have found the entire process of raising koi extremely rewarding as well as challenging. Going through thousands of fry in the beginning and choosing a thousand to grow out a little was tough but interesting. Months later with no GC's in sight, makes you appreciate top quality fish even more!!! You realize the odds of getting one...My friends love in too, Free fish all summer long!!!

Koijazz
08-25-2009, 10:15 PM
It seems the ugly mutts grow the fastest!

I second that!

Koijazz
09-23-2009, 12:17 AM
Any updates?

Tommygug
10-10-2009, 07:14 PM
What a day! I finally got a chance to do a final cull for my spawn this year. Overall, I am very happy with the results. My guess is every one I gave fish to was happy also. Next year, I will cull earlier now that I have a better idea what to look for. I would like to thank everyone on Kiophen who has contributed to my new found knowledge. I will do this in a few posts...Please let me know what you think! First, these pics are the keepers from the large pond of Kohaku's and Sanke's I bred this spring (5-16-2009) The last few in the black bucket are the ones I think have the most promise.327422

327423

327424

327425

327426

Tommygug
10-10-2009, 07:19 PM
This next batch was from the same spawn but a different growout tank. these were grown in a 300 gal tub. The tancho and bekko are very nice. The darker bekko maybe to nice this small so i saved some others that aren't as finished right now.327427

327428

327429

327430

Koijazz
10-10-2009, 08:25 PM
I like them! What are their size range?

Tommygug
10-10-2009, 08:43 PM
There was a huge spread in the sizes...a few were only an inch and a half. In one of the ponds I had a few fish close to eight inches long...They were the ones who had daphnia the longest. Most were 3 to 5 inches

EricT
10-10-2009, 11:44 PM
very nice Tommy.

You did a great job with them.

-Eric

vernon619
10-16-2009, 03:26 AM
very nice!