View Full Version : Brady Chat - Edited

Jeff R.
12-23-2004, 10:30 AM
What follows is the Brady Brandwood Chat from 12/5/2004. This version has had the dates and chatty things deleted to ease your reading through some wonderful material. I found it helpful and hope you do as well.

Brady_Brandwood: What would you all like to talk about?
Also, how many of you are naked right now? Be honest!
kntry: Brady, tell us about Showa and their development
from say 6" to finished.
L5Vegan: Brady, The top right showa. Male? Looks very
Brady_Brandwood: L5, I'll have to pull that pic back up.
kntry: I'd like to know about color development in
Showa from small to finished.
Sarge: Teach us oh great one!!!
Brady_Brandwood: Okay, yes, Showa in top right is a
male - Nisai 18 months - showing MORE finished colors than most there,
but still immature.
danm: Ok Brady, when can good skin quality become
apparent in young koi?
kntry: When looking at an immature Showa, how do you
know how much color it will have and where the color will be?
Brady_Brandwood: Dan, good skin is apparent at 45 days
in the first cull, and should be there at any age.
danm: thanks, so ALL yours have 'good' skin?
Brady_Brandwood: kntry, showa can have a lot of
surprises - colors lurking under the skin, so it's difficult to predict,
but the underlying shadow areas will help.
Pacificcoastkoi: Brady, if a koi at young age doesn't
have good skin then should we discard it ever improving?
Brady_Brandwood: Dan - no, not ALL, but the ones that
do get saved and are paid more attention.
sunshine_kathy: 3rd fish top row of showa, faded
colors why???
kntry: So at a young age, you really can't tell if the
colors will be the deep wet paint colors?
Brady_Brandwood: Pacific - we keep Koi for so many
reasons - if your goal and desire is to win at shows and have the BEST -
then you have to make room for only the very best - because every Koi in
a pond takes something away from the other Koi.
TomO: Brady, I purchased a nice showa, one year old, at
two most of the black faded to gray that can be seen strongly under the
skin. Will the black ever return?
sunshine_kathy: what do you mean by that Brady???
kntry: On the second row of Showa, fish 3 & 4 how very
little sumi and there isn't much under the skin. Will they lose the
little they have now?
Brady_Brandwood: sunshine - 3rd from top showa is one
of my 3 very best of that group.
sunshine_kathy: why is that the best with the color
luke-gr: Brady, I'm learning...Are all the fish in group
C Showa?
Pacificcoastkoi: the color is coming up not fading
Brady_Brandwood: sunshine - the Showa is only 18 months
- and is female - the color is coming - a great fish for a long journey
- 8 years to be finished and show ready
Ruth: Hi Brady - you're talking about the 3rd one on
the top row right
Brady_Brandwood: yes Ruth
Brady_Brandwood: yes, all in group C are showa
kntry: On the second row, fish 3 & 4, will the little
sumi they have disappear?
kntry: No sumi below the skin if visible.
Brady_Brandwood: the 3rd to right is Art Lembke's Showa
- I'll grow her for him another year here then she goes to his new
indoor pond
sunshine_kathy: why the fading
kntry: Why is the last male on the top so much darker
at such a young age?
dasofsky: Brady, do you think food can affect coloring
of fish?
Brady_Brandwood: yes kntry, at this age the showa that
is visible will be replaced with more mature sumi later
Ruth: Hi is different shade can you elaborate for
everyone why this is important?
Brady_Brandwood: kntry - males will color up more
quickly, and are a great choice for people who are not patient to wait
for females to mature.
ma_barker: Brady,...which of these showa is YOUR
favorite...for the future?
Brady_Brandwood: dasofsky - yes, definitely food can
affect color - I don't recommend ANY color food until 3 to 4 years old
kntry: If you have a female, would it look more like
the faded out fish here?
Brady_Brandwood: Ruth - hi of different shade has more
to do with bloodlines
Pacificcoastkoi: Brady do you ever try to slow the Sumi
from maturing too early so the entire fish will finish at the same time
sunshine_kathy: I thought mine was female! cool!
Brady_Brandwood: ma barker - the 3rd on top
Brady_Brandwood: pacific - no, I let the genetic
quality take care of that
kntry: Why would you choose the 3rd even though it's faded?
L5Vegan: pic a, top center, beautiful fish, Will the hi
in they pec stay, spread, or go?
Brady_Brandwood: kntry, because it is not faded, it is
immature, and has the world in front of it - bottom left is also a favorite
kntry: Will females darken as they mature?
danm: layer like paint
Brady_Brandwood: yes, females darken with time - later
though than males -
Let's go to the Kohaku. Which would be your
favorite and why?
ma_barker: Brady...taking fish to Orlando?
sunshine_kathy: I like 2nd row 2nd fish,,uniformity of
Brady_Brandwood: L5 - the hi in pec of A top center
will pull in toward the body as the fish grows and be much less noticeable
Canadian_RedNeck: newbie basic question....body
shape.....different development stages, ages...male and female?
Pacificcoastkoi: Brady what is the age of this group
Brady_Brandwood: L5 - top center Kohaku pic A - the hi
in pec will pull in toward the body and be less
danm: I like bottom left of 'b' and upper right of 'a'
kntry: When looking for a Kohaku, what pattern is best?
Brady_Brandwood: pacific - kohaku are tosai 6 months -
showa are nisai 18 months
Brady_Brandwood: best pattern is what is described in
judges guide
kntry: What do you mean by judges guide?
luke-gr: Brady, your thoughts on Group B, bottom left.
I would think it would be judged a bit "broken up", but I'm partial to
that fish. Dramatic to me. I see Danm agrees!
Dale: Brady, I've always wondered....is the hi (red)
more stable in sanke or showa? My limited experience has been showa more
stable than sanke.
Keiko,_The_Killer_Koi: Brady, do all Showa have black
inside of their mouth?
Pacificcoastkoi: It is much harder for me to discern
the better of the group from the Kohaku than it was with the Showa
anyone else have the same idea?
Brady_Brandwood: ma, yes will be at Orlando - not sure
with fish - I'm about to announce something new and very exciting!
Brady_Brandwood: luke B bottom left is manzo line -
will pull together and tighten up a lot in the next year
danm: GREAT shiro
Brady_Brandwood: keiko, no not all showa - my new age
showa have no black in mouth
kntry: Do the Old Style Showa have black in their mouths?
Brady_Brandwood: yes, danm, shiro is very important
like a paintings frame
Canadian_RedNeck: okay....all your pics show varying
body shapes/types...is that a factor at the ages of koi shown....as
important as color at that age or not....?
sweetpea: What is the difference in a new age and the
old world showas?
Lynn: Brady, Are you finding that showas are your most
popular fish?
Brady_Brandwood: Canadian - the body shapes are a
bloodline trait and come from the varying parent stock - i work with 3
males each female
Pacificcoastkoi: The bottom middle kohaku,do you like
hi in the pecs. at this age does it show that the hi is deep when the
koi is this size,and that as it grows will it pull back off the pec. fin
GoFish: Okay Brady if one is planning on buying a 2 yr
old female showa, do you buy for the kohaku pattern and the red and wait
for the black to come? or what do you look for in a young showa?
kntry: When buying a young Kohaku like this, would you
look for the 3 step?
Brady_Brandwood: yes, will pull back off peck fin -
just a pattern thing though, no sign of stronger hi - in my opinion
Brady_Brandwood: gofish - i don't look for kohaku
pattern in showa - the black can fill in areas that would look lost on
GoFish: so what do you look for?
Brady_Brandwood: kntry - i prefer stepped patterns with
a nice shoulder accent personally
kntry: Let's say you're going to buy your first Kohaku,
what would you look for?
Brady_Brandwood: Gofish - i look for quality white,
quality red, quality sumi, and the potential for a good balanced pattern
to emerge - and a GOOD body shape
sweetpea: Could you elaborate on the difference between
old world and new age showas?
Dale: Asking again......Brady, in your experience is hi
typically (red) more stable in sanke or showa? My limited experience has
been that it is more stable in showa's I have had. Yours?
Brady_Brandwood: the Koi i call my new age showa has a
modern hi plate - a milk white and sumi that resembles sanke sumi - falls
in the white areas primarily n the body
kntry: They also don't have as much sumi, correct?
Brady_Brandwood: dale - i see the hi on sankes as more
refined - the hi on traditional showas is different all together
-develops differently - but i don't see any relation to more stable
Brady_Brandwood: i'll have to get a photo of new age
showa up - just a sec.
danm: Is the 'new age' your innovation, or an overall
trend in the hobby?
Clay: More spotted than banded Brady?
Lynn: wouldn't spotted be more indicative of a sanke
than a showa?
Brady_Brandwood: dan- some breeders are doing thir own
versions - they are unique to the breeders and what they are using as
Clay: Kindai showa have more white than traditional
showa. Would you consider your new age showa - kindai?
Brady_Brandwood: yes clay, more big blocks of sumi
falling just below the lateral line
kntry: Is the hobby trending more toward the new age?
Pacificcoastkoi: Brady considering the Showa are black
fish with white and red are you concerned that by breeding the Sumi out
of Showas you may end up with Showas of a poor quality Sumi?
Brady_Brandwood: yes clay more kindai - but my goal is
a better modern hi plate and better sumi on smoking white ground
kntry: What is the hi plate?
Brady_Brandwood: kntry - I think the hobby swings back
and forth on trends
danm: how far along on the goal?
Clay: I've been on your website drooling. I see the
quality that you are producing - nice fish and nice of you to share your
experiences with us - thanks
sunshine_kathy: I would like to know if getting that
painted look to the pattern is just genetics or is there away to
stimulate development of that type
Pacificcoastkoi: Should I put my clothes back on
Clay: Kntry, the Hi plate is the area on a fish that is
kntry: Thanks, Clay.
TomO: My question, again. Will black that has faded to
grey on a showa ever return to black?
luke-gr: Clay has a new pic up
Brady_Brandwood: which koi sunshine?
Brady_Brandwood: I just posted New Age Showa in photo D
luke-gr: How is it different from Sanke?
sunshine_kathy: some sanke i have seen and other koi
have this beautiful deep almost painted on pattern
Brady_Brandwood: tom - yes it can - depends on the
quality of the Koi and the age - if older than 7 possibly not
Bill_OTMS: Interesting. I like the tancho effect.
kntry: That looks more like a Sanke to me.
Bill_OTMS: It is. It's the head character that has the
danm: looks good for the future
Brady_Brandwood: yes looks like a little bit sanke & a
little bit Showa - but larger sumi than sanke
kntry: When choosing a pattern on a Kohaku, should the
Hi end at the tail or does it make a difference which color is at the
tail stop?
Pacificcoastkoi: what is the age on Showa D
Bill_OTMS: looks young
Clay: Brady, I notice in photo D that the red on the
head is much deeper because it has no scales to go through. Can I assume
that the fish is on the younger side and that the body beni will deepen
with age?
Brady_Brandwood: Pacific - born in '01
luke-gr: Good Q, Clay. I was assuming the same thing.
TomO: I got knocked off...so have a stupid question.
The new age showa is stunning. How is this a black fish...with white and
red? It looks like a white fish.
Bill_OTMS: Thanks, Clay. That was my next ??
Brady_Brandwood: kntry - ideal tail pattern is red
stops just before tail leaving white break at tail
Brady_Brandwood: yes clay that's a very nice red - but
just out of mud and still young
Clay: That's called odome - where the red breaks and
has a white section just before the tail.
Brady_Brandwood: tom - it is not a black fish - that's
why i call it new age - very different than traditional showa
Pacificcoastkoi: In new age showa, do you look for black in the pecs? Or does it matter
luke-gr: Brady, then how id a showa diff from Sanke? I
m confused...
Brady_Brandwood: pacific - some have - and some do not
Clay: Brady, when people talk of color of beni they
want an even color across the whole fish I believe. Then people speak of
fukurin where you have nice skin between each scale. Should the fukurin
and the scale match in color?
Brady_Brandwood: luke - overall appearance of the sumi
- it falls below lateral line & should be on head too
Brad_Koikichi: Whats the difference between your New
age and Kindai ?
luke-gr: So the diff is mainly in location of sumi??
Sorry, Im learnin'
Brady_Brandwood: tosai new age showa up in photo E
Brady_Brandwood: yep luke - good questions
Brady_Brandwood: yes clay fukurin and scale will match
Keiko,_The_Killer_Koi: Brady you don't have any pics of
your bream
kntry: Are all new age showas Tancho?
Brady_Brandwood: HAAAAAA keiko - I do have some
IMPRESSIVE brem - and d=tadpoles too.
Keiko,_The_Killer_Koi: I saw them
luke-gr: Id always thought that showa was a "black"
fish. Never made sense..
Brady_Brandwood: kntry - many of them are maruten head
pattern - a consistent pattern style with them
kntry: I thought the same thing.
Dale: I was WONDERING when you were going to mention
your tadpoles!!!
sweetpea: So in pic E. the grey will eventually
deepened and extend down below the lateral line?
Clay: As mentioned before sanke is large spots of
black. True old style showa is bands of black like Utsuri. I also see
tancho used often tancho is when there is no red on the fish except the
head. Mauruteen sp?
Dale: We seined as many tadpoles and crayfish when I
helped Brady harvest 3 ponds in October. All were QUALITY stock.........
Brady_Brandwood: sweetp - yes i have more pics
Clay: continued: Mauruteen is when tancho on the head
and some red in the body.
GoFish: What foods are you using?
Brady_Brandwood: gofish - many foods and suppliment
with fresh vegs
Dale: Do you feed fresh vegs raw? I've heard of
steaming sweet potato and other vegs. What vegs do you feed?
Brady_Brandwood: another pic of tosai new age on photo F
kntry: Brady, When picking out a young Old Style Showa,
what would you look for?
Ruth: Brady will you keep these fish indoors for the
winter or do they go back in the mud?
luke-gr: Im gonna have to compare some showa and sanke
pics. pitiful when I cant tell 2 of the big three apart...LOL
Brady_Brandwood: kntry - i look for good sumi, and not
too much of it - a good hi pattern with white red and black on the face
Pacificcoastkoi: Brady will this Sumi deppen up and
turn to lacquer, like people are use to seeing in Showa
Brady_Brandwood: Ruth - all my Koi stay outdoors - but
in filtered tanks for the winter - it's mild here
Clay: They see better sumi on sanke and I think that is
what Brady is achieving
Brady_Brandwood: pacific - yes - laquer like on sanke -
has a shine and also thick
Dale: Brady, I believe you were posting a picture when
I asked a question about vegetables you feed your koi. What vegs do you
feed? Raw or steamed? Cut up or whole?
TomO: Brady, say more about food. What vegtables...raw
or cooked, etc.
Brady_Brandwood: dale - both - they like most all
Pacificcoastkoi: Brady,is picking new age Showa at
young ages more difficult than old style Showas at the same age?
Dale: Both vegetables? both steamed and raw? what vegs,
Brady_Brandwood: sweet potato - peas - greens - citrus
fruit - boiled barley
Clay: I would like to pry out of you what you really
feed for a pellet. It is almost a religion surrounding food, but I and
others would really like to know.
allen42: mine wont eat veggies
Brady_Brandwood: pacific - i see it as easier - more
predictable sumi
Clay: They are not use to veggies, but they will eat
when given time to warm up to the new offering
Brady_Brandwood: clay - i have a LOT of fish - and I
don't finish them for shows here - pellet is in bulk
Pacificcoastkoi: allen, I did the same thing
kntry: Do you feed any type of meat?
Clay: Let's try the prybar one more time - so what
pellet in bulk? If you really don't want to share I'll understand.
Brady_Brandwood: those who show their Koi should use
highest quality pellets they can fit in budget and add vegs
luke-gr: Brady, do you wholesale out? Or strictly cull
and sell yourself? Just curious...
Brady_Brandwood: luke - i do both
allen42: what ya think about Muzuri feed Brady ???
Brady_Brandwood: kntry - yes - shrimp - worms - clams -
Pacificcoastkoi: how many culls before you sell your
youngest fish?
allen42: mine loves worms
Clay: Bigger prybar - so what 2 or 3 pellets do YOU
consider high quality?
Brady_Brandwood: allen - i think mazuri is a good
staple diet - gets a bad rap from some hobbyists - will yellow skin some
but is one i have used for years among many
ma_barker: Clay...I'm in NC..want me to go spy for ya?
Dale: Prybar won't work, Clay. Not to pry out the best
high quality feed.
allen42: whew , cuz thats all mine get , cept the stuff
i won @ the show
Clay: I'm trying to be dipomatic. Thanks for putting up
with my harassment
Brady_Brandwood: clay - hai feng is good and not
expensive - chlorella - nozomi - izeki paste
sunshine_kathy: Why does it yellow them?
Clay: Thanks Brady. You're a great sport.
Brady_Brandwood: sunshine - likely because of the
grains used
Brad_Koikichi: do you have any concerns with the corn
in Mazuri
luke-gr: hmmmm, corn is yellow
Blammo: no concern with corn !!
sunshine_kathy: Thats what I thought you were gonna say!
Clay: Come on Blam, you're not shy - speak your mind.
Brady_Brandwood: brad - no concerns - i have used it
for many years, and I have some Koi that are 14 years old and very
healthy and look wonderful
Brad_Koikichi: Thank you
Brady_Brandwood: brad - we should always suppliment any
pellet food with fresh food
allen42: i buy muzuri for 18 dollars for 20 pounds
Brad_Koikichi: Oh yes
Blammo: Brady, Brett and I feed the same.... It works
sunshine_kathy: Have you used Kiegler
allen42: Blamo , ya use Murzi too ?
kntry: When you feed shrimp, clam, etc. is it fresh and
whole or ground up? Do you feed shrimp shells?
Brady_Brandwood: yes by fresh i mean fresh vegs and
live foods
ma_barker: Do ya'll hate Rangen too?
allen42: < never used it either Ma
kntry: Live Shrimp?
Brady_Brandwood: yes - shrimp in shells - i cut the
sharp spline out of tail then cut shrimp in pieces and feed
kntry: Oh, ok!
Brad_Koikichi: does rangen make koi food ?
Brady_Brandwood: boiled shrimp
Clay: I do - gave that massive Zhit producing stuff
away to an aquaintance. Wouldn't give Rangen to a friend.
kntry: Ma, what's wrong with Rangen?
sunshine_kathy: Will blood worms make them redder????
allen42: lol any shrimp around here gets boiled ,
****** if the fish gonna get it !
Blammo: Ohh Yeah.. Rangen too. I',m playing with
Zeigler with my.. ummm. Longfin hybrid Indonesian carp, as per Vance
ma_barker: I don't hate it...but some do
Clay: Kntry, tons of waste
Bill_OTMS: Brady, What do you use to keep mineral
balance in your ponds (Ca, Mg, etc)?
Brad_Koikichi: I thought it was Trout / Catfish chow
sunshine_kathy: Where do you get your feed Blammo
kntry: Great, I just bought 150 lbs. of it to try with
4 others.
ma_barker: Gene feeds it
Brady_Brandwood: hobbyists with high end Koi should
feed a better quality pellet than rangen or mazuri - but both are decent
for feeding lots and lots of fish for budget reasons
ma_barker: so do I
ma_barker: never noticed anything bad....but I'm new
Blammo: Thanks, Br
kntry: So to get less waste output, feed Hai Feng,
Chlorella, Nozomi or Izeki paste?
allen42: but they get red worms & muzuri
Clay: I have 9 fish left as of today - culled two more
out of the collection - it's easy to afford to feed better food to a
smaller collection like mine.
Brady_Brandwood: if i were a hobbyist again - i would
feed primarily vegs and meats
Brady_Brandwood: yes definitely the way to go clay
ma_barker: is imitation crab meat okay?
Blammo: Brady,, Meats ?? Elaborate
Bill_OTMS: So what's high end food?
Pacificcoastkoi: do you let the meat goet a little
funky before you feed it?
Dale: Brady, I feed mazuri, buyt it is less than 50% of
what they eat. Vegs, clam meat, shrimp, worms, bugs, etc. Is a decent
low end pellet ok in a diet mix like this? Or should I spring for better?
Brady_Brandwood: immitation crab is processed stuff -
it has some protein content but shrimp is better
kntry: What about beef heart?
Blammo: I use softshell blue crab.. allot
Brady_Brandwood: dale i think better is better :0 but
your ratio is pretty good, and your Koi look GREAT!
kntry: What type of bugs?
allen42: crickets
kntry: Do you feed them live?
Brady_Brandwood: yes Dale some fine looking tadpoles!
Clay: Shrimp, prawns, haddock, anchovie, crab etc for
good meats. I use to do the homemade paste food. I live Hi-Silk 21 mixed
with Hikari, but I don't know if that is thee best stuff - but
affordable in the small stable that I keep.
ma_barker: mine are afraid of crickets, lol
Brady_Brandwood: yep clay!
Blammo: Bug zapperz. Buy one and hang it over the tank
allen42: good idea Blamo !!!!
Dale: Bugs - lots of crickets, grasshoppers, flys if
you can swat 'em. They'll eat any bug.
Clay: Anything that lived in water should be cooked so
that you don't pass along anything nasty - my opinion.
Dale: Kntry......you don't need bugs diring the
winter.. The koi don't EAT during the winter.
kntry: My koi do. I live in the deep South!
kntry: My water rarely gets under 55F.
allen42: SOME breeders , milk the eggs & sperm & mix it
up !
Clay: Koi eat in heated indoor systems in Wisconsin too.
Brady_Brandwood: yes pacific - all here in NC
ma_barker: you can get crickets at the bait shop
Dale: Sorry.......I'm like Brady. My koi shiver a bit
in the witner.
kntry: Thanks Ma. They sell crickets everywhere here
but not grasshoppers. I've tried worms and they won't eat them.
Clay: There are kits to make your own worm farm and
they are very high in protein.
Blammo: BS
kntry: Are you talking earthworm or red worms?
allen42: mine eat redworms , my daddy raises em
kntry: I have tons of earthworms but the fish let them
sink and die.
Bill_OTMS: You don't need a kit to do a worm bin. If
you're interested, PM me i'll send you DIY plans. piece of cake to make
Clay: Red or nightcrawlers would be great. Nightcrawler
I would think give you more protein for the investment in time since
they are larger.
sweetpea: OMG, throw a couple worms and watch the frenzy!!
Dale: Kntry, I have NEVER seen a koi refuse a worm.
What have you done to them?
Bill_OTMS: Nope. The big guys you see after it rains
Ron_C: Night crawlers are worms
kntry: I spoil them!
Clay: My fish after not eating shrimp for a while will
get picky - but something is pretty much instinctive about a worm -
never a hesitation there
kntry: In this here part of the country their called
kntry: I guess they got used to Cajun food!
Ron_C: Not that I have ever heard
Bill_OTMS: It's better to leave the NCs in the ground.
They're better for your soil than the koi. Breed the red wiggelers.
Blammo: Brady.. effect of sunlight on hi
developement.Yall ! quiet
kntry: Sweetpea, I live in Southern Louisiana
cmungo: I've never tried to feed anything but pellets.
It sounds like I need to rethink that idea.
Brady_Brandwood: yes blammo - needed - lack of sun
reverts hi back to weak
Blammo: sunlight in relation to hi/beni in tosai
Pacificcoastkoi: if you put them back in the sun will
the color come back?
Brady_Brandwood: yes color will come back - a friend
who sells koi keeps them in a barn & they become more red a couple weeks
after taken to an outdoor pond
kntry: So would a diet of 50% live bugs and shrimp and
clams and 50% veggies be optimum?
Bill_OTMS: Back to high end food. What brands???
Brady_Brandwood: sounds great kntry - a good diet
sweetpea: no pellets needed?
Dale: Kntry, that diet would be better than most people
in 3rd world countries!
Brady_Brandwood: I think chlorella is good - nozomi is
good - izeki paste is good
Pacificcoastkoi: does anyone have Izeki?
Brady_Brandwood: I think hai feng wheat is a great food
- also hikari is not bad
Dale: Brady, what do you think of bil's paste food
recipe that a lot of people mention?
Brad_Koikichi: I have Izeki
Brady_Brandwood: I haven't tried bils paste food
Bill_OTMS: I've been very impressed with the HF Wheat
kntry: What is in the paste food?
Brady_Brandwood: i like the list of ingredients though
Brad_Koikichi: heard there was a shortage and stocked up
Dale: Kntry, I've fed only 50% pellets for the past 2
years with a lot of the other stuff mentioned here to make up the rest.
Brady has seen my fish, I think he'll vouch for their color, sheen and
body shape.
Dale: Kntry, I believe bil's paste food recipe has been
posted on koiphen. Do a search. It's also on koivet.
Clay: Sorry, couldn't copy and paste here. Will put it
on Brady's discussion with the photos if anyone is interested.
Dale: Let's hear from the folks who read to their koi.
Pipe in underwater music. Swim with their koi. I know you're out there
cause I've met some crazy people in this hobby. Just none of those
sunshine_kathy: What about that deep painted pattern I
was talking about earlier?
Brady_Brandwood: yep sunshine - i don't understand what
you are mentioning
Brady_Brandwood: example sunshine?
sunshine_kathy: be back
Clay: I talk to my koi when I feed them. I have been
striving for the Pavlovic response. I talk - they associate the sound
with food and come running
Brady_Brandwood: i have to admit i talk to my koi - all
50,000 of them
Dale: Clay.....I knew there was one out there!
Dale: Two!!!!!
Brady_Brandwood: how many swim with their koi?
dOHd: I do
Blammo: Blammo
sweetpea: me,when I clean out the pond
Clay: Brady, back to Koi D. Does that fish have black
inside of it's mouth? I know a sanke when I see one and a showa when I
see one but D is close. Gofish - it must be the cheese
Michael_K: I'm not putting my rear in the same water as
my koi.
Brady_Brandwood: I was afraid I would get bad karma if
I laughed too much.
Brady_Brandwood: clay - no black in the mouth
sweetpea: I do put the waders on.....well most of the time
Clay: Hey, I often say you must listen to your fish for
they are talking to you. Maybe not in words, but if you are listening
they can tell you of possible problems that you will notice with your
fish that no one else would find.
Brady_Brandwood: i'll get up a pic of D at Nisai
Pacificcoastkoi: I swam with the fishes when the top
came off my bottom drain
Ron_C: I get in my pond all the time.
Clay: No Black in the mouth, no black on the pecks on
tail and none on the head. The bands of black would be it. Hard to bench
in a show???
Brady_Brandwood: yep clay - not a show fish - but a
brood fish
sweetpea: I think that it's a good thing to get in the
pond.....bird's eye view of the fish
sunshine_kathy: i posted a pic with some of what i mean
on your thread
kntry: I'd love to get in my pond and get up close and
personal with my fish. But I'm afeared of the snakes!
luke-gr: sunshine just posted a pic, What is it?
Brady_Brandwood: Oh,... those may have been my tadpole
catchers then.
Clay: There really are nasties that you can catch from
fish - would never recomend swimming with our koi.Besides soaps on your
body or left in your clothes would not be good for the fish.
Michael_K: OK Brady, (and I hate to bore everyone here
for a moment) Tomoin versus Yagozen, if left un-*******ized, what are
some basic differences to a trained eye?
Michael_K: Not a loaded question.
sunshine_kathy: some koi have an almost painted look
like. Its not all over that koi but the red is it hu? looks almost
painted on
kntry: Clay, what's the difference between swimming in
the koi pond and swimming in a river? There's fish there also.
Pacificcoastkoi: koi pond is a closed system and a
river is not
Clay: Have you ever heard of swimmers itch. I might be
wrong, but one of the things that JR said you can catch from swimming
with your koi I thought was TB. There are other pathogens that can
invade the human body. Maybe Brady could help list some of the -
Brady_Brandwood: tomoin is more like Dainichi or the
Kohakus the Matsunosuke (Sakai) brothers produce - big bold with big hi
patterns - Yagozen is more elegant - smaller patterns
Clay: continued: things that could affect us.
Canadian_RedNeck: okay....sorry for being such a
newbie, brady, but here goes...what are the important determining
factors when looking at a koi for identification purposes only....and in
order if there is such a thing?
Brady_Brandwood: Tomoin goes from orange to red -
Yagozen starts red and dips a little at 3 to 5 then goes red again
luke-gr: yeah, seems like I saw an order of things to
look at for classification...
Brady_Brandwood: the whites are different also -
yagozen white has snow like tiny glitters in it
Michael_K: OK, thats close to my understanding up to
this point. Do you see any difference in beni depth/color?
Michael_K: Got it, thanks.
Brady_Brandwood: yes - we would have to look into a
bowl together to compare well - yagozen and manzo reds look close
Michael_K: Yeah, always thought the old photos of Manzo
and Yagozen looked quite similar.
Brady_Brandwood: canadian - body first -is the body
good - then overall impression of the whole package
Brady_Brandwood: yep - beni is close but body is
different - and face too
Canadian_RedNeck: i guess was i am looking for is a
reference that says if a is this...then go to b...and if b is
this....look at c....clear as mud?
luke-gr: Yeah, a step by step for classification. I
know scale type is first (I think)
Brady_Brandwood: canadian - it's a very long road -
there is no clear as mud.
Canadian_RedNeck: i gathered that ...... and it is one
i want to learn...or at least attempt...types of koi and then the
Canadian_RedNeck: like a decision tree..not sure what
to call it..
luke-gr: flowchart
Brady_Brandwood: There are charts for the varieties
that you can learn from
Brady_Brandwood: Koi kichi has some excellent drawings
ma_barker: And Gene's ID CD helps
Michael_K: Metallic vs. Non is a good place to start.
Canadian_RedNeck: i am trying to get a chart.......
Canadian_RedNeck: but it is the mental process that i
want to learn...the thinking behind the chart...
Brady_Brandwood: A deep one Canadian
Canadian_RedNeck: the thought process that is used...
Canadian_RedNeck: or the process of elimination might
be another way to look at it..
luke-gr: This koi stuff is kinda difficult. Unlike dogs
with different breeds, we are basically discussing patterns/colors and
the differences
Canadian_RedNeck: yes but body shape, patterns, colors
dictate the species, not?
Clay: Let's see if I can just post it here:

12-23-2004, 10:35 AM
thanks a lot jeff hopefully we can get the likes of brady and kevin lee and some of the other large dealers to get into the chat room on a given day because they really can help everyone with their knowledge. thanks for the post very helpful.

12-23-2004, 10:38 AM
Thanks Jeff, it's much easier to follow now.

12-23-2004, 12:47 PM
Ny stuff was edited out! :(

12-23-2004, 01:03 PM
Thanks Jeff
That is a very informative thread, great input from everyone
Even though they all were Nekked

Brady hinted at some "ANNOUNCEMENT" that he was going to make.

Has he "ANNOUNCED" anything yet?????????

New breed of fish?
He went to Massachusetts and got hitched to BLAMMZZZZZZZ ???
What is it, enquiring minds need to know

12-23-2004, 02:00 PM
Patience grasshoppazzz.. ;););)

12-23-2004, 04:42 PM
But is the trip to Mass. rumor true or not

Come on Blammzzzz