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dant
11-18-2008, 09:11 AM
its been 7 days since hatch. and so far green water and bioled egg yolk. oh and daphnia food. i must say i need to do a water change dont i?

pondlady
11-18-2008, 10:21 AM
get out the scope, to tiny tiny too see sooooo cool babiea everywhere.

Makoi
11-18-2008, 01:22 PM
Welcome to Koiphen....:punk1:
and Congrats with your Sanke babies.... :cheer:

dant
11-19-2008, 06:00 AM
ho guys i see that some people on the forum actually put the baby fry in clear water. my curious question is. whats the difference in raising them in green water compared to clean filtered water.? do tey eat the same food while in the clear water as they do still in green ?

dant
11-19-2008, 06:02 AM
so yeah they're doing fine but amonia is pretty high. should i place them in filered clean water and continue on feeding them the same food.?

DebbieKSW
11-19-2008, 07:06 PM
Puit some zeolite in a bag to absorb the ammonia...and slowly do some small water changes...IMHO.

CHICHI
11-19-2008, 07:14 PM
Hi Dant and Welcome :D: ..

Zeolite asap after BIG Water change with Dechlor 50 or more %..

Stop feeding until you have 0 Ammonia - it will kill the Fry :eek1: so will the subsequent Nitrite ..

I raised My Fry in Green water for the first time last Summer and regret every minute of it - It`s an absolute Heinous Menace ..

tyco4357
11-19-2008, 09:38 PM
Egg really fouls the water. I have never used it. Too much cleaning. I would get them in good water right away and work on getting the other tank's readings.

vipldy
11-19-2008, 11:33 PM
While we raised our fry this past summer we used a binder for AM and salt for Nitrites..We did have green water but then changed and used a shade cloth on top of the fry tank. Cleared the green water..We had a small flow threw but still did small water changes everyday to keep in all in check..Its alot of work for sure.

dant
11-20-2008, 07:06 AM
cheers guys for the reply. will get stuck into it. also i have a 1000L/ph sponge filter. should i use that in the tanks. the sanke are a week old. would they get injured if i ran the pump.?

dant
11-20-2008, 07:33 AM
some are lying on the surface on its side but when i pick them out they swim off. whats the casue of this. why are the babies lying on the side.but still swimming off.

stephen
11-20-2008, 07:54 AM
I raised mine in pea soup green water but did continuous flow thru and water changes. Ammonia will kill them fast, check it often. I turned off UV's all pumps, etc. I pumped a lot of air into the tank.

I had to turn off the pumps or they would get sucked into them. I attached funnels to one end of garden hoses and wrapped the funnels with pantiehose and turned them into syphons (syphon - a tube running from the liquid in a vessel to a lower level outside the vessel so that atmospheric pressure forces the liquid through the tube) that ran 24/7. Then I just continuously ran fresh water into the tank at the same volume that it was leaving. Pantiehose need to be wiped off frequently but it kept the fry from being inhaled.

Good luck and welcome to Koiphen:yahoo:

CHICHI
11-20-2008, 08:50 AM
Hi Dant ..
Great advice from Stephen - Duncan runs continuous flow through too when rearing Fry - It`s the only way to go to keep the Mortality rate down ..

Fry need virtually perfect Params to ensure survival ..

dant
11-23-2008, 06:58 AM
hi all. just posting some update pics on the sanke. i changed the water clear now. surprised i had alot of fry. i have 4 seperate tanks one is heated to see if they grow quicker in warmth. so far they about 10mm now. some have already died about 37 of them.

CHICHI
11-23-2008, 07:38 AM
Hi Dant ..:D:

Sorry to hear about the Fry losses it`s a common occurance I`m afraid :sad: ..

Do keep testing for AMM/NIT who`s Values need to be maintained at 0 on the Liquid reagent Kits in order for the Fry to Thrive ..

Davej
11-24-2008, 05:50 PM
Hi

Few tips from over the pond from an amateur who dabbles with fry raising;

Raising Fry is one of the joys of Koi keeping but is also a load of hard work!!

We feed on Liquid fry food for the first 3 to 4 weeks, four feeds a day. Liquifry is the product I use in the UK. Egg yolk does tend to pollute the water.

Plenty of gentle aeration and good water are the order of the day. You canít pull too much water through a filter when the fry are in their initial stages so we go for Zeodolite to bind the ammonia. Trickle in and overflow to waste 20% or more of clean water (make sure the overflow has a mesh over it though!!)

Ideal temp is 23 to 24 to get them growing, but the key thing is to keep the temp stable.

After 3 to 4 weeks we wean them onto Newly hatched brine shrimp. You need to set up a hatchery to do this. Can you get bulk brine shrimp eggs over there? We pick up a couple of kilos each season at aound £10 a kilo.

At about this time we also remove the spawning brushes and give the tank a clean.

Shrimp Hatchery is Plastic 3L Pop bottles with the tops cut off in a small tank kept at 28 degrees. Fill the pop bottles with salt water and put in a spoonful of brine shrimp eggs. Aerate and they will hatch in about 24 hours. Sieve through fine cotton and feed.

See pic1 below; if you want more on this then shout!

Depending on how many fry you have you will find that you do go through a phase when you lose many of the fry, (well I do anyway). Donít panic just keep the water sweet and there will plenty left when they get through it.

6 weeks on brine shrimp 4 times a day and they will be at 1Ē+.

It is a load of hard work, I simply do it for fun and breathe a sigh of relief when I have them up to a size when the autofeeder can do the work!! This years crew are now just over 6months and at 4 to six inches. 2nd photo is a few of them at 4 months, Kuromo is this years aim.

Keep at it, the satisfaction on getting to the end of the tunnel will make it worthwhile!

Brine shrimp hatchery
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa98/davej111/2007_09290015.jpg
Hope this will be inspirational! my 2008 crew at 4 months
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa98/davej111/DSCF6252.jpg

Regards

Dave

dant
11-25-2008, 10:34 AM
thanks Dave for the breeding advice. im gonna look into brine shrimp eggs. another question. if i do slow water changes. do i add dechlorinator small dose at the same time while water changing or do i wait till i do the change.. then add the dechlorinator all after?

CHICHI
11-25-2008, 11:13 AM
Hi Dant ..:D:

If your running a Continuous "Flow Thru" a Dechlorinater such as EA make would be well worth investing in :yes: http://www.canadiankoiandpond.ca/EA/DetoxC.html

Failing that Dechlor must be added prior to re-filling ..

tyco4357
11-25-2008, 01:58 PM
Dave, the degrees you have down are in celceus?

DebbieKSW
11-25-2008, 06:00 PM
I think he is in Western Australia...Dant that is..I may be wrong though.

CHICHI
11-25-2008, 07:13 PM
Dave, the degrees you have down are in celceus?


Hi ..T :D:

Dave is having difficulty with delays in his Posts appearing on the board and I also forgot to say Welcome to Koiphen with him being new to the Forum too and like myself from the UK :D:

Carl
11-25-2008, 07:24 PM
Hi ..T :D:

Dave is having difficulty with delays in his Posts appearing on the board and I also forgot to say Welcome to Koiphen with him being new to the Forum too and like myself from the UK :D:

I just took his account off of moderation. He should be all set now. :yes:

CHICHI
11-25-2008, 07:27 PM
Thank You :clap: :yes: :D:

Shorty
11-26-2008, 11:23 AM
some are lying on the surface on its side but when i pick them out they swim off. whats the casue of this. why are the babies lying on the side.but still swimming off.

I had the exact same thing happen. Every afternoon when I'd check the tank, there would be a bunch floating on their side. I would gently blow on the surface, and most would start to swim away. Some looked like they had air bubbles in their guts. The next morning there wouldn't be so many on the surface, and often none. But by the afternoon a group would be floating again.

I live in the desert, and have 10 degree water temperature shifts during the cycle of a day so assumed it was something to do with that. Or figured they were just defective fry.

From the looks of that one fry of yours, you now have tobies. They are the big fry that quickly outgrow their siblings, and start to eat them. You need to fully drain your tank every 2 weeks and seperate the tobies, otherwise they will eat everyone else. Those tobies are fast growers, so don't throw them away if you like fish that get big quickly, but from my spawns, the best color pattern comes from the fry that grow at medium speed.

Shorty

Davej
11-26-2008, 04:07 PM
Hi

Thanks ChiChi!!

Yes temps quoted were in degrees C. Must try harder!!!

Bit early for Tobies I would think, if anything looking a bit under nourished, you can normally see their stomachs fill up after a feed. But yes after a few weeks Tobies can soon thin out their brothers and sisters.

Just try and keep the water sweet. Ideally an in line dechlor is the best option, what they fry need is stability so trickle in and out is ideal.

Regards

Dave

dick benbow
11-29-2008, 09:28 PM
loved the updated photos on thread#14.......were both parents sanke?

UcKoi
11-30-2008, 09:17 PM
Hey Dant,

where are the update fotos, people are waiting for more fotos and anwers.

dant
12-01-2008, 06:19 AM
yes both parents are sanke also the third parent is a gin rin platium ogon.

dant
12-01-2008, 06:26 AM
i took photos of the tobies (bigger babies) about 50 of them. i also spent 2 hours culling deformed babies. in all tanks. enjoy phots:yahoo:

CHICHI
12-01-2008, 07:09 AM
Sooooo Cute :D: :D: :D: :yes: :yes:

dant
12-01-2008, 08:50 AM
these are the parents in action. notice the young gun platium.

dick benbow
12-02-2008, 10:39 AM
reason I asked was the yellow baby you initially pictured was not sanke. the platinum explains it.

UcKoi
12-02-2008, 08:41 PM
Hi Mr B,

The white on kohaku, sanke from magazine came out of Japan showed milky white that look like platium white. Could this be the results of crossing or the lighting and the camera playing tricks on us. Please give us your opinion and I cant provide a picture becuase I am a computer challege person if I push a button the whole forum may crash. Thank you
Kanga

Davej
12-03-2008, 06:58 PM
Thanks for the update, keep them coming, how are the water parameters?

What temp have you got them at?

Regards

Dave

dant
12-04-2008, 10:14 AM
the water readings are all neutral execept one tank. amonnia is pretty high. ph in the second tank is around the high 9. the temperature i have two tanks are at 23 degrees C. and the last tank is at 25 degrees C. during midd day the sun takes up all tank and the temp rises about 3 degrees more for about 6 hours a day.

Davej
12-04-2008, 04:53 PM
Hi Dant

You do need to get a hold of the Ammonia, will only get worse as they grow.

Trickle in and overflow to waste if you can. Alternately try and get some Zeodolite in.

I put a small submersible pump into a foam sponge and pump into a barrel of mature fluid K1, in an emergency Zeodolite, ideal is to put a pump into a container with a fine mesh screen, have a look through the following and you will see what I mean. Maurice has now gone from amateur breeder to the best in the UK!!
http://www.koi-uk.co.uk/experimental_spawning.htm

Regards

Dave

DebbieKSW
12-04-2008, 06:51 PM
or even just some "ammo lock"..

dick benbow
12-04-2008, 10:23 PM
In your pictures of the tub of babies, the yellow with black are classic sanke while the yellows need to take a long walk about. While working within a limited amount of genetics, you certainly get an opportunity to meet a hard challenge and learn from it.

LOL, I laughed about your being computer challeneged. that makes 2 of us!

lukef
12-04-2008, 10:58 PM
dick most of my kohaku/sanke have yellow on em that turns to orange after a couple of months

Dant,
I think you got some quality showing in the TOBIES...and that ain't normal.
try not and screw this spawn up...it looks good

lukef
12-04-2008, 11:02 PM
dang it...Dick
I see your last reply now.
Even some of my solid yellow ones would loose alot of their yellow and turn into sanke or kohaku

dant
12-09-2008, 12:40 AM
i took photos of some of the good batch i could catch. hey that rhymes. hehe. enjoy. :yahoo:

dant
12-09-2008, 12:47 AM
( note the gin rin scales on some of them.) i think a platium ogon crossed with sanke is called yamatonishki. is this correct?

dant
12-09-2008, 12:50 AM
one of the best ones.

dant
12-09-2008, 12:52 AM
that one was my favorite and a keep an eye on koi.

dant
12-09-2008, 12:54 AM
an unusual sumi beauty spots.

CHICHI
12-09-2008, 05:55 AM
Getting Prettier by the Day Dant :yes: :yes: :yes: :clap:

dant
01-05-2009, 04:44 AM
does anyone have any yamatonishki nisai picstures or metallic sanke pics.

CHICHI
01-05-2009, 09:25 AM
Hi Dant ..:D:

I have a YAMO and have rarely seen two the same :no:

http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=yamato+nishiki+pictures&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=1&ct=title

Gin can also come and go :rolleyes: So pleased your enjoying the changes in your Fry :yes: you might be fortunate with your favourites and see little change :yes:generally though this is most unusual because Fry hardly ever remain the same :no:

dant
01-07-2009, 05:16 AM
any one eles have any metalic sanke.

rainblood
01-07-2009, 01:52 PM
Interesting formation of GR scales

Ethan25
01-07-2009, 03:57 PM
Interesting formation of GR scales

kado gin?

rainblood
01-08-2009, 05:39 PM
kado gin?

:shrug:

dant
01-09-2009, 11:38 PM
my question.......

dant
04-06-2009, 09:12 AM
to be honest the sanke spawn didnt go that well. next year i will try again but with no gin rin platnuim ogon male . just sanke to sanke. one on one. but here are some keepers from the spawn. interesting. i couldnt catch the rest but i culled and sold about 3000 babies.

dant
04-06-2009, 09:19 AM
interesting isn't it. i have more sanke but it take me about an hour to catch one baby. they hatched in november last year and now almost 5mths old measuring average 3 1/2 inches long. these are all from the same spawn.

Hirogoi
04-06-2009, 09:40 PM
Looks like you got more hariwake than sanke.

dant
04-07-2009, 07:17 AM
your right the platium ogon i found out it is a failed harawaki. thats why i sold almost all of them. now i know what to breed with my female actual harawaki