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Midorigoi
11-15-2008, 06:47 PM
Sex: Male
Born: 2007
Size: 12 in
Breeder: Suzusei
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff137/Koiscale451/Koi/showa.jpg

He comes in the mail Friday!!!! :clap: :yes: :clap: :yahoo: :cheer:
Tell your opinions on him both good and bad.

Hirogoi
11-15-2008, 08:25 PM
His head looks off like one eye is lower than the other, and his beni looks weak.

Midorigoi
11-27-2008, 09:18 PM
More pix...
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff137/Koiscale451/Koi/PB261174.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff137/Koiscale451/Koi/PB261175.jpg
Please comment I'd really like more opinions. :yes:

jonathan
11-27-2008, 09:23 PM
be nice to hear from other people....

tyco4357
11-27-2008, 10:04 PM
I am not a good judge, but it looks like it's still developing and seems like it is going to be even nicer when it get bigger.

Carl
11-28-2008, 07:41 AM
This is another one of those koi where my first impression is, "pretty koi." But, then if you take a critical look at it, some of it's component parts are weak. So, it will look nice in your pond, but not necessarily good for showing. The head may be a little crooked which is a common fault with showa, but I can't tell for sure from the photos. However, the head from eyes to nose does look small which may be an indication that it will not grow large or have perfect conformation. Again, a problem only if you would like to show.

There are weaknesses in the beni towards the tail and a little farther up from the tail on the koi's right side. The sashi and kiwa are not impressive. Pattern wise its pretty nice, though. Shiro on the tail, towards the shoulder and on the face, nice balance, nice motoguro, and the shiro looks nice. Sumi looks nice, too.

Having said all that, my comments are based on generalized "rules" and may be incorrect when applied to a particular line of koi. I do think you will be able to enjoy this koi as its overall impression is nice. So, since you asked, it has faults and potential problems, but today it's a pretty koi. :yes:

dick benbow
11-28-2008, 02:40 PM
You can see the strong influence of it's Kohaku lineage that was used to strengthen the beni.

I think the breeder actually saw something he liked to hang on to it for a year.

It's a small fish for it's age. maybe so done to allow the beni to strengthen.

Depending on your skills with water they fish may surprise you. Try and keep the PH Low ( in 7's) and don't heat and feed heavy to push for size.

I'm not seeing any issues with the head in the original photo with a necessary straight on view for discernment.

Hirogoi
11-28-2008, 03:31 PM
It's in the first photo that the head looks crooked Dick. It just looks off and it's not the sumi that's throwing it. Doesn't really seem like it'll be a show fish.

Midorigoi
11-28-2008, 08:13 PM
You can see the strong influence of it's Kohaku lineage that was used to strengthen the beni.

I think the breeder actually saw something he liked to hang on to it for a year.

It's a small fish for it's age. maybe so done to allow the beni to strengthen.

Depending on your skills with water they fish may surprise you. Try and keep the PH Low ( in 7's) and don't heat and feed heavy to push for size.

I'm not seeing any issues with the head in the original photo with a necessary straight on view for discernment.

I guess I'm lucky my ph never gets above 8, always around 7.4-7.5. :yes: I'm interested to see how this one turns out; he's very friendly too, eat's well. :D:

Midorigoi
11-28-2008, 08:18 PM
I am not a good judge, but it looks like it's still developing and seems like it is going to be even nicer when it get bigger.

Thanks, that's what I think too, because of a fair amount of lurking sumi I see. :yes:


This is another one of those koi where my first impression is, "pretty koi." But, then if you take a critical look at it, some of it's component parts are weak. So, it will look nice in your pond, but not necessarily good for showing. The head may be a little crooked which is a common fault with showa, but I can't tell for sure from the photos. However, the head from eyes to nose does look small which may be an indication that it will not grow large or have perfect conformation. Again, a problem only if you would like to show.

There are weaknesses in the beni towards the tail and a little farther up from the tail on the koi's right side. The sashi and kiwa are not impressive. Pattern wise its pretty nice, though. Shiro on the tail, towards the shoulder and on the face, nice balance, nice motoguro, and the shiro looks nice. Sumi looks nice, too.

Having said all that, my comments are based on generalized "rules" and may be incorrect when applied to a particular line of koi. I do think you will be able to enjoy this koi as its overall impression is nice. So, since you asked, it has faults and potential problems, but today it's a pretty koi. :yes:

Thank you for your opinion. :yes:

So I think it's an above pond grade, but not quite show quality. :yes:

Super Kindai
11-28-2008, 11:11 PM
Suzusei is a famous Showa breeder, produce very sharp quality fish, not a Jumbo type breeder though.

It is not easy to have an artistic Hi pattern like this on Showa.:cool:

Carl
11-29-2008, 08:01 AM
Thanks, that's what I think too, because of a fair amount of lurking sumi I see. :yes:



Thank you for your opinion. :yes:

So I think it's an above pond grade, but not quite show quality. :yes:

Well, if the beni problems towards the rear of the fish clear up I think it could compete in the smaller categories, as males do, (if its head is not crooked, and I really can't tell from the pics.)

I also happen to be one of those that believe that most of us are wasting money trying to buy koi that will turn into jumbo females since most of us don't have the facilities to accommodate them. Therefore, buying attractive males is a good buying strategy. Much of the focus on this and other koi sites is on optimum show quality, so when we critique in this forum, it is with that in mind. As a practical matter when we critique a koi as not likely to get large, is that really a problem for you? Probably not.

In this case, we have a concern about a head that at least one of us thinks is crooked, but can barely be detected, a concern about the size potential and some concern about the beni because of the weakness shown towards the rear. A barely detectable crooked head is only an issue if you want to compete (and, if it is in fact crooked). Size is only an issue if you want to compete in the large sizes. The only real issue that could detract from your enjoyment of it in your pond is a potential breakdown of the beni. However, as I have said before, although I see signs of weakness there I don't know that line and showas can show weakness in the beni where it is just competing with emerging sumi. :shrug:

I think as a buying strategy we should stay away from weak appearing beni unless we are assured by a breeder or dealer that it is not a sign of weakness. However, that does not mean that this beni will fail. For instance, Brady's kohakus are an example of koi that seem to consistently break the general rules and one would not want to pass on an opportunity to own one of his quality kohakus.

Hirogoi
11-29-2008, 03:43 PM
Yes, but with Brady's kohakus we have multiple examples of the before and after pictures for the fish. They are amazing fish, but one thing I've noticed with his, is that there are a lot more simple stepped patterns which I love, but you don't see many of the more intricate patterns on his fish. His break the rules but we know the breeder. I don't know much about Suzusei maybe Russ does. Brady's fish also have very good skin which is important in large fish, this showa is more cotton colored as Dick says, not silk.