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mmzullo
08-24-2008, 08:50 PM
I had another spawn in my natural mud pond. I did see a few yellow/orange fry. I do have alot of 1.5 inch fry which I see more of but I think these are from last years spawn. Unfortunatly I also have gold fish in the pond. I have about 50 small fry that are about 3/4 of an inch and they are grey or black. I'm guessing they are goldies. Do larger Koi eat any fry they can get or just there own. It just seems that the goldies survive better then the koi do.
Also how big the fry have to be so the larger koi wont eat them. I do have a lot of hidding places for the fry.
Thanks

Koigrl
08-25-2008, 01:57 PM
I'm in the same boat with you. Lots of fry, all kinds. the worst is the cross-bred koi-goldfish that grows pretty large, eats as much as a koi, is a gray color with no redeeming qualities whatsoever -- from my point of view. this mutt alone is enough reason to get rid of goldfish. i've been told koi eat the fry, but have never seen evidence of this. if you have the common comet goldfish, they are tremendously hardy. apparently they can be frozen in a solid block of ice and when thawed, continue as if nothing ever happened. i don't have answers, only questions and first hand experience trapping all kinds of fry with bread, turkey, sinking koi food inside minnow traps. andrew suggested using a tilt box and am thinking on that.

mmzullo
08-25-2008, 04:54 PM
I've used minow traps. The only fish I catch are baby koi!! I've used a dip net and throw net. Next is drain the pond and go after the goldies.

Koigrl
08-25-2008, 06:24 PM
How big is your pond? How deep? Is it natural or man-made? Have a picture? Pls. tell all.
max
http://www.broccolihall.com

mmzullo
08-25-2008, 07:55 PM
I dont have pictures with me right now. It size is 35 x 25(give or take) and it's about 4 or 5 feet deep and fills in with debris from the run off. It was man made from a low spot in the front of the yard. It is spring feed and stream feed so water turn over is good. I get a back hoe and pull out the junk every couple years. I only had 2 koi in the pond when they spawned. They are pond grade koi from a garden center. I bought some other ones that are LF's but are too small to bread. I must have about 30 offspring that range from 1 inch to 5 inches.
Unfornutaly about 4 or 5 years ago I put in feeder goldies because the Heron would get the koi. So now I have so many goldies. In the last 2 years I must of got ride of 3 to 4 hundred.
I'll try to get pictures up tomorrow.
Mike

Koigrl
08-25-2008, 08:57 PM
mike, i made the same mistake with the goldfish. i was just helping people out who had shallow ponds and didn't want the fish to die over the winter. anyway, it got out of hand and when i seined last fall, took out about 600 gold fish -- then threw a few back out of sentiment. big mistake. as for the heron, he's a bad guy, but he leaves when i open the door. previous heron was with me for seven years. he wasn't afraid of my station wagon -- even when i tried to run him over. :) well, that was never going to happen, but he would perch at the top of a 60' tree and wait for me to give up. not only did he take koi, he also just spiked a few big ones to death. i now have cattails and other reeds encircling the pond and deer netting over the gaps. that plus the opaque water has him foiled!

Koigrl
09-01-2008, 10:22 AM
My mud pond is pretty big -- 90 x 40 x average 9 feet deep. i have caught a number of feral fry and have been holding them in a net basket, pvc tubing making a 4 x 4 x 4 foot cube.

the couple dozen fry were coming up to the surface and tearing into manda fu, shrimp and koi food but in the last week have started hanging out at the bottom of the basket and not coming up to eat.

i do have a heron who perches on the dock next to where the net basket is anchored, so it's possible he has harrassed the babies, (but didn't get any!) also, the big koi have been banging into the sides of the net to suck the food through.

i have now covered a corner of the net basket and the babies seem to be feeding under the cover. is it better for them to live in the net basket in the pond? or should i take them out and keep them in a QT?

there is plenty of water flowing through the net, plenty of CO2, algae and whatever else is growing in the pond, so any theories why my babies have become bottom huggers?
Max

mmzullo
09-01-2008, 08:09 PM
Max,
Yes it could be the heron, but it could be the warmer water on the surface of the pond. Is it in full sun? Itt could be the problem. I would also put a net over the top of the cage. I think the best way to raise the fry is in it's natural state. If you want to see the development of the fry I would take only a few out see put them in the QT tank.
Mike

Koigrl
09-01-2008, 08:57 PM
Mike, thanks for your thoughts. the net cage is on the shady side of the pond. gets some sun in the morning, enuf to grow algae, but the algae is not blocking the netting. the basket is four feet deep, but i'll put a net across it, not a problem. it makes sense to keep the babies in the pond as long as possible, so i'll keep them all there. as a side note, i had two baskets, one for the koi, one for those darned comets. the comet net was half the size of the other. i put a shrimp in each of the nets, and the next morning the comet net was tipped on its side, one comet out of forty that were in there, no shrimp, and humongous bullhead catfish. i think the koi tipped the net over and the catfish climbed in. don't know if he ate the comets or freed them~!

goofyboutgoldfish
09-01-2008, 11:46 PM
I would think that the catfish is helping to control the population. I know of a couple that has a bass in their koi pond to control the population. I am not sure how it is working but they seem to think it is.

Koigrl
09-01-2008, 11:55 PM
I was advised to put a bass in the pond. it's a tough call, though. possible to have that bass do too good of a job. :eek1: as for those bullheads, never seen a homlier fish. they come up to feed with the herd. and they breed!:rain1:

goofyboutgoldfish
09-02-2008, 12:09 AM
I was advised to put a bass in the pond. it's a tough call, though. possible to have that bass do too good of a job. :eek1: as for those bullheads, never seen a homlier fish. they come up to feed with the herd. and they breed!:rain1:

I can understand the part about doing too good of a job. This couple didn't want any babies at all. Just the larger koi that they had put in. Yep! Catfish can be pretty homly!:yes:

mmzullo
09-02-2008, 08:32 AM
How big is the catfish? If it's 6 or 7 inches or bigger that will eat any fry. Even the goldies could be gone soon enough. That is the wrong way for me to control the goldies. I want to keep the koi fry but get ride of the goldies.
Maybe the catfish is going for the fry in the cage!
Mike

Koigrl
09-02-2008, 01:01 PM
I recognized one of the goldies that had been in the tipped-over goldfish cage swimming free in the pond (it has very distinctive markings.) So, i told my gardener who takes my goldies and catfish to her pond -- that the gf had escaped. and she said, "When i put that bullhead in the plastic bag, he was alone. When i got home, there were three dead goldies in the plastic bag with him."

verdict: he climbed into tipped over net. some goldies escaped. he ate the rest of them with his shrimp. couldn't get out of the net. threw up in the plastic bag. What a revoltin' development!

i still have plenty of goldies and am now going to start netting them again, taking better precautions against predators.