How to scrape a fish !

[Blammo]

In another thread I mentioned "finding bugz" in the garage of your house.
Where do you look ?
In the center of the floor or the middle of the wall ?
Of course not.
Finding parasites on koi often requires the same approach.
Nooks and crannies,
Hiding spots, if you will.

Once I did the 10ppm PP dip on some koi that had confirmed ( by me) costia.
They were loaded with it and it was easy to find some nearly anywhere you took a scrape.
This is NOT the normal scenario.

After The Dip, I noticed something immediately.
Brown, rusty, burnt looking, areas around the barbels, the fine line where the dorsal meets the body, the "armpit" area under the pecs, the edges of the mouth underneath the "chin" of the fish.
Lastly :eek: The anal fins and anal opening:eek:.

What was this odd "stuff".
It was burnt costia and lots of it !
I repeated the dips on ?? 10 ??? or so fish and found the exact same results..

That forever changed the way I scrape a fish and since that time, if there is a bug, I'll likely find it with a quickness.

Scraping in these areas is obviously a whole lot different than dragging slides and cover plates down the sides and bellies of medium to large fish like they show you in the " bookiezzz":rolleyes:

Here's a start.

I make some of my own scraper tools but you can get your hands on some, by looking around, that'll work just great.

Dental hooks and plaq scrapers work fantastic.
The internet has them and your dentist tosses them out when they get dull . The dull ones are perfect !

Once the fish is knocked out, and on the table, take a hook or scraper, or make a little "loop" out of some small, smoothe, metal wire, and reach into the pocket under the pec fin. You need a dab of snot about the size of a BB up to a .22 bullet head, depending on the size of the fish.
Use the hook to drag it ONTO a cover slip and transfer, with the hook,onto the center of the slide.
Add a drop of food coloring and put on e NEW cover slip.
Have a look.
Repeat in all of the areas that I mentioned, if you need to.
If there are parasites you'll find them in one of these areas pretty darned quick.
A classic for flukes seems to be right under the chin or right where the dorsal meets the body.Often "perceived" mouth rot is actually aeromonas, resulting from parasite damage in that area. True mouth rot is columnaris and the fins are nearly always involved.

Costia like the barbels, pecs and anal areas.
Matter of factly costia will " hide" INSIDE the anal opening, only to re emerge later.
Once you see costia and eradicate it ( or think you did) go straight to the anal area for your follow up scrape to reconfirm their demise.

Ummm don't use a scraper on the anal opening :eek::o
Us a smoothe dental hook, a loop or the rounded corner of a cradit card.
Another good tool for this is... ummmm... a spoon, a very very small spoon that can be had in the upstairs section of waterbed shops, Harley accessory places,
I think you get the drift.... Tiny ! Makes a good Koi scraping tool ! :rolleyes:

Gillz...
You can almost always expect to find bugs in the gills of fish but people often don't clip or scrape due to fear of damaging them or not having the tools to do it.
It's all about tools.
I'm half blind anyways so I wear an optivisor when doing most koi work.

For the gill you need a GREAT pair of scissors, surgical quality or barber quality $$$$$$ Nothing else will suffice.
You need a good pair of tweezers ( not available at the grocery store)
To scrape the gill take a loop or DULL scraper and go in between the gill slits to the edge of the filament and gently slide some slime onto a cover slip.
Don't go back so deep you get to the "teeth" (rakers)
If you do have good tweezers and scissors, you can do a clip.
Grab the end of the gill and take a small cut back to the edge of the filament... on a 10 inch fish the piece would roughly be the size of 1/2 of the end of a pencil eraser.
If you try this with the scissors in the kitchen droor you'll quickly realize what I mean about " GOOD" Scissors
Place it on the slide with a drop of water and cover slip, and have a look.
INTERESTING STUFF.
Here are some inexpensive tools I quickly searched for.
http://www.hobbytool.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=23

Next, please.
Doc Jim. You out there this morning ?

[schildkoi]

A nut pick. Dull the tip and its perfect.

Steve

[Lee B]

The instruments you mention would be perfect! I've used "plastic" coverslips in the past: they have LOUSY optics and I don't use them for "real" coverslips (glass is the only way to go), but I didn't know that when I purchased them (they were "recommended" in the books :rolleyes: ). However, because they're as flexible as they are, they make nice little spatulas for larger areas - then transfer to the slide for use with a glass coverslip.

The first time I did a PP treatment, I noticed my Platinum doitsu had the brown patches . . . it took me a few minutes to realize what had happened :o Your observations are quite correct; it was like a roadmap to infested areas.

Another thing I did as a newbie (also recommended in the books) was to take scrapings and organize them on a slide as "gills" - "body" - "anal area" so that I would know which area had bugs. WHO CARES???? You can't treat just the body - you have to treat the whole fish anyway. Lump the sample into one nice little smear: it saves scanning time.

Great info!

Lee

[auntiesue]

The information on this thread is so valuable!!! Food coloring?? Hmm, what color do you prefer? Wouldn't using a colored filter do the same thing?

Yes, we must consider starting a heading to save this type of information so it doesn't get buried after time.

I have a new fish that needs scraping so this thread is very timely. In fact, I was waiting for it to appear before I proceeded.

Sue

[KoiValley]

Thanks for some great information! I've scraped several fish lately and didn't find what I thought for sure would be there. Now maybe I know why! ;) I'd like to know a bit more about using food coloring if possible. I'll be talking to my dentist soon anyway :mad: so I might as well hit him up for some dull tools! :D

Another area to look for tools is in the artists' section of the craft store. The smaller flexible palate knives would work very well for the armpit area of the pecs and the vent as well. I have several. They need to be smoothed from time to time with emery paper or very fine finishing sandpaper as water corrodes the edges and makes them rough.

In the sewing section take a look at seam rippers, snag repair tools, bodkins, darning needles, and crochet hooks. Some of these need to be dulled a bit but all should work for various hard to reach places.

[Blammo]

Thanks for some great information! I've scraped several fish lately and didn't find what I thought for sure would be there. Now maybe I know why! ;) I'd like to know a bit more about using food coloring if possible. I'll be talking to my dentist soon anyway :mad: so I might as well hit him up for some dull tools! :D

Another area to look for tools is in the artists' section of the craft store. The smaller flexible pallet knives would work very well for the armpit area of the pecs and the vent as well. I have several. They need to be smoothed from time to time with emery paper or very fine finishing sandpaper as water corrodes the edges and makes them rough.

In the sewing section take a look at seam rippers, snag repair tools, bodkins, darning needles, and crochet hooks. Some of these need to be dulled a bit but all should work for various hard to reach places.
There ya go !
More affective and easy to get toolz !
Food coloring.. Just get the little 4-5 to a pack, 1/2 oz containers of liquid type from the grocer. The wife knows where to find it.
They stain real good... Look at your fingers when your done !:eek:

I used to use methylene blue but I still, honestly, believe I killed the bugs before the slide made it to the deck of my scopes.

Brady turned me on to the food coloring about a year ago.

I just found one of my " precizzion loops" today..
The wife told me it was one of her "thingiezz" for pinning bacon around shrimp :mad:

Its a grocer item. I'll attempt a description.:rolleyes:
Its a 2 and 1/2 inch long "pin" with a little loop(3/8 ") on the end so you can grab it.
Its what the cheffiez use to pin meat when they do things like a stuffed, rolled, hammered chicken breast thingie.
Ladies. Help me out !

It is THE BOMB for gill scrapes
.
Steel fishing leader or .025 welding wire, made into a loop, is awesome too.
Claude ??? Katson.. Where are you ???

Keep this coming........

[Blammo]

OH... Sorry.

The food coloring is just a drop, to stain the sample, a tad, and thin the SNOT enough to keep the air bubblezz out of the sample when you place the cover slip on it..
YES.
Glass cover slip, please..

Scott.
Translate , if necessary :o

[auntiesue]

For us newbies...can I get back to the food coloring for a minute? :D

Exactly how do you apply this to the sample. I imagine getting the sample and then placing it on the slide THEN placing a drop of color on or beside??? the sample, then placing the cover slip over that???? Is this right?

Also when you say "thin the snot" (sample) do you mean press or slide the slip cover gently?

Sue

[Dr J I Phillips]

Hi Douglezz some nice tips. I use dark field microscopy so do not use dyes and colourants to help spot the parasites but I think the food colouring idea is very inovative.
I always use glass cover slips but never scrape with them, they are too brittle. I use the slide itself. Without anaesthetic, I have someone hold the Koi upside down and scrape the belly and the gill cover regions - they always seem to be the most fruitful areas.
For scraping or snipping gills I always anaesthetize - usually with clove oil. With an anaesthetized Koi you can look in the "nooks and crannies".

[Jeff R.]

I was taught to use the slide itself to get the scrape. I don't know what boob came up with the idea of using a cover slip to scrape, but it is a bad idea. I have seen folks break them in two and then had to dig in the flapping fishes gills to look for it. As I say, I don't know whose idea it was, but I know some who perpetuate it. :eek:

[auntiesue]

I was taught to use the slide itself to get the scrape. I don't know what boob came up with the idea of using a cover slip to scrape, but it is a bad idea. I have seen folks break them in two and then had to dig in the flapping fishes gills to look for it. As I say, I don't know whose idea it was, but I know some who perpetuate it. :eek:

I have not yet tried using the slide itself to scrape, but use plastic cover slips to scrape. If I were to try using the slide itself, what is done then when the sample is gathered? Do you use the slip cover to then scrape all the slime into one area on the slide then place the slip cover over that?

Sue

[Jeff R.]

I have not yet tried using the slide itself to scrape, but use plastic cover slips to scrape. If I were to try using the slide itself, what is done then when the sample is gathered? Do you use the slip cover to then scrape all the slime into one area on the slide then place the slip cover over that?

Sue
I put a drop of pond water in the specimen (snot for those speaking Blammozzz) move it to the center of the slide and use a cover slip if I desire. I have started doing without the cover slip and haven't noticed any problems. :)

[Dr J I Phillips]

Hi Jeff
Unless you have a water immersion lens, I am surprised you do not notice a difference. The cover slip should make a big difference in improving the quality of the image. It also flattens the specimen making focusing easier.

[Ron C]

Doug, thank you, I just saved that to my koi documents. The info on the tools that you use is great! The gills still scare me, I don't know how one overcomes that tho.

Lynn,

One over comes that by doing it, perhaps with someone that has done it before with you the first time. It really isn't hard to do if you have good scissors.

[Ron C]

Great, After all these years of evaluating every waterproof container I see for suitability as a fish or filter container I can now look at every small tool for scraping. :o
To bad McDonalds doesn't still have those little plastic spoons.
Is there a best type of scissor? Would the small hair stylist shears work?
Dan
Great thread Blammo.Thanks
The scissors you mention will work, but ask your doctor for some suture removal scissors, they have a little depression on the tip that is the perfect size for your gill snip.

[Ron C]

I was taught to use the slide itself to get the scrape. I don't know what boob came up with the idea of using a cover slip to scrape, but it is a bad idea. I have seen folks break them in two and then had to dig in the flapping fishes gills to look for it. As I say, I don't know whose idea it was, but I know some who perpetuate it. :eek:

Jeff,

I was taught to use cover slips, but the plastic ones, then use glass to view. Then another vet told me about using the slide itself. I didn't really like that because you can't get the little places. I have been using used dental tools for my scrapes.

[Cowiche Ponder]

here is a bump up for those that have joined in the last month, and I may try and scrape a fish... I oonly have a cheap school model microscope :rolleyes: , but will give it a try anyway :yes:

[Ron C]

You will do fine Mary.... Don't feel bad about your "school scope" as long as it has 4X, 10X, 40X you will be fine, and see what is there to see. Welcome to the wonderful world of bugs.

[Koi-Toys]

Thanks for the bump. It would have taken me awhile to get to this one!

~Raymond.

[Cowiche Ponder]

You will do fine Mary.... Don't feel bad about your "school scope" as long as it has 4X, 10X, 40X you will be fine, and see what is there to see. Welcome to the wonderful world of bugs.

ran out of time today, should be able to tomorrow. It's cold out there at night right now!! :yes:

[Lee B]

with this post, but were on another thread. I thought I'd add them so you could see what Blammo was talking about.

Lee

[auntiesue]

Blam, I think it was you that uses food coloring to get a better view with a sample. I've played with using that some, but found a single drop of food coloring on the slide is a bit too much. Do you dilute the food coloring when placing it on the slide? Just exactly how do you use it?

[Blammo]

With the coloring you are actually staining the normally semi-transparent parasite(s).
The colored slips give you a similar effect to " dark field" microscopy.

I wish Jim Phillips would jump in here since he is truly the Master of Da Microscope and microscope photography.
See ?
THATS a fluke !!
Photo courtesy of James Ian Phillips :D::yes:
BTW.. That aint food coloring.. thats some zillion dollar rig Jim has at Da Lab

[Blammo]

:D::D::D: Cute, aint they :mad::mad::mad:

[Dr J I Phillips]

Hi everyone and Blammo
I have been away in Cape Town.
The photo of the fluke above is a Gyrodactylus species, commonly known as a skin fluke. It differs from Dactylogyrus species (gill flukes) in that it produces live young. The easiest way to tell them apart is to look for 4 black dots on Dactylogyrus. When you get rid of a skin fluke you are also getting rid of the next generation. Gill flukes lay eggs so at any given time there will be eggs in your pond system. These eggs are resistant to treatment so they can be very difficult to get rid of.
The photo was taken with a very fancy microscope a type of phase contrast and interference microscopy combined. Not for the amateur hobbyist.
In practice for scrapes, I use dark field microscopy. It is cheap and easy to set up.
Basically, you are trying to see transparent parasites against a transparent background. Very difficult. So we need to introduce some kind of contrast either optically or with dyes. Most people create contrast by closing down the substage iris. This is not optically ideal but it does produce some contrast. The next step up from dark field would be phase contrast. For this you need a special condenser and objective lenses. There are various forms of interference microscopy e.g. Nomaski, which again require special optics. Food dyes are cheap and can be used with an ordinary microscope. A small transparent disk with a centre spot attached to an ordinary microscope will give you dark field nicroscopy.

[auntiesue]

If you were to use something like food coloring, like Blammo suggests, how would you apply that? Scrape, place sample on slide, place drop of food coloring on top of sample, then cover with a slip cover?

[Dr J I Phillips]

That is the way I would do it with a stain or dye. I have no experience with food colouring though.

[Blammo]

If you were to use something like food coloring, like Blammo suggests, how would you apply that? Scrape, place sample on slide, place drop of food coloring on top of sample, then cover with a slip cover? Yep, You got it.
Brady taught me that trick up at his farm a few years back....

[Rudy]

At what mag. should these cute guys become visible, 100X, 200X? I got some dye to try this out. Also any picture of what they would look like under a normal scope. I must find and destroy :horse: :salute: 4/7th Calvary Scouts out,Sir.

[Lee B]

They can be seen at 40X, but more detail at 100 or so. Just don't go to too high of a magnification, or you'll get the proverbial "can't see the forest for the trees" view

[Ronin-Koi]

Are the organisms still alive when you view them, or are they effectively dead, and are smashed between the cover and slide? If they are alive and moving, I can see how it would be much easier for a newbie like me to find them and identify them.

- Wayne, will have to learn about all this stuff when he finally gets Koi.

[Lee B]

Well, if you work fast enough, they're still alive! I usually have everything set up and ready to go; a sample can stay "active" for 45 minutes or more. You have to use low light; a flourescent versus halogen bulb also works better - not as bright (but you see more in low light, anyway) and cooler, so the light doesn't cook your specimen.

[toothless]

I know this is an old thread but I have a good tip for those who use Scopes and Q-tanks for new and/or parasitized fish.

Firstly, because I am an aquarist and not a ponder, I do not come from the school of thought that finding a prasite or two in the filter serves no worries if your water and fish are healthy. If a nasty or two is found in the filter, the time to act is NOW. Aquariums have a tendency to allow things to go wrong very quickly and the nasties waiting in the rafters will be given the oppurtunity to invade, one day. Its Murphy's Law.


Its actually a very common thing to scrape a parasitized, but otherwise healthy, fish and miss the baddies. I have done it over and over. Until your a pro at it like Blammo and some others, the ideas below will be especially useful for finding facultative parasites like trichodina, chilodonella, tetrahymena and a few others. Don't even think about trying to scrape enough slime, for examination, from a small fish like a small goldfish or koi fry. Let alone scraping and re-scraping the same fish over and over.

Keep in mind that I preffer to house ALL new fish in a tank, for at least a week without an active cycle. Testing for stability of chemistry, ammonia, using detox liquids and waterchanges are mandatory, of course.

The whole speil to this is to force ALL of the water that is flowing from the filter/pump return through a micron filter/filterpad. The debris that collects on the filterpad will have a great cross section of everything that cam e in with your fish. But more importantly, what ame in ON your fish. Your going to see it ALL.

There are many different ways to make what I reffer to as "The Micron Module" but it all entails using a container with a lid, a few plumbing pieces, some silicone, a soldering iron and a mechanical filter media that filters stuff down to 1 micron. This stuff works GREAT: http://www.hagen.com/usa/aquatic/product.cfm?CAT=1&SUBCAT=114&PROD_ID=01005780020101

Anyway, without getting into EXACTLY how I made mine, Ill just post a picture.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/twothless/HPIM1960.jpg

Fishfood container, Plastic canvas, a barbed bulkhead fitting and the micron mesh. Fit together and place in-line from a powerhead or pump of choice. Within 12-24 hours, your ready to take a sample. Just pat the micron mesh into a bowl of water and let the debris settle for a few minutes. Then, use a syringe to transfer samples to a slide.....

Hope this helps someome, I know it worked a charm for me. Heh, since it filters out baddies, it could even be used as an addition to treatments in H-tanks!

:thinking:

[Lee B]

Hmmm, now that's interesting. Can you post a photo of how it's installed on your setup?

[auntiesue]

I always have been told that certain parasites, such as costia, don't live that long off the host!!1 Interesting!!!

[toothless]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/twothless/HPIM1971.jpg

Simple, and very effective. Parasites are constantly being shed from the fish and you can catch the shed ones with this device. I dont know the efficacy of this module when trying to diagnose costia (no firsthand experience) but it will work great for flukes, chilo, trichodina, tetrahymena, ich cysts and trophonts, hexamita/spironucleus (they,re actually free-living) and many other nasties. Mainly ciliates, wich are the most elusive in scrapes anyway. I can tell you with a LARGE degree of certainty that this thing works, for the listed nasties above, VERY well and none of them can get under the radar. After all, a 1 micron screen will not allow any of the known fish parasites through it. Not even costia.

So If a seemingly parasitized fish does not reveal anything in scrapes, add them to a small tank of freshly drawn water with this unit and you should have your culprit within a matter of hours. Again, theres MANY different ways to devise this concept. Whatever works, works. ;)

[auntiesue]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/twothless/HPIM1971.jpg

Simple, and very effective. Parasites are constantly being shed from the fish and you can catch the shed ones with this device. I dont know the efficacy of this module when trying to diagnose costia (no firsthand experience) but it will work great for flukes, chilo, trichodina, tetrahymena, ich cysts and trophonts, hexamita/spironucleus (they,re actually free-living) and many other nasties. Mainly ciliates, wich are the most elusive in scrapes anyway. I can tell you with a LARGE degree of certainty that this thing works, for the listed nasties above, VERY well and none of them can get under the radar. After all, a 1 micron screen will not allow any of the known fish parasites through it. Not even costia.

So If a seemingly parasitized fish does not reveal anything in scrapes, add them to a small tank of freshly drawn water with this unit and you should have your culprit within a matter of hours. Again, theres MANY different ways to devise this concept. Whatever works, works. ;)

This is very neat!! Can you explain a bit more about the micro-screen please? Where do you get such fine material and where did you get the "bug catcher" device? Very nice indeed!!! This would work so great on a Q-tank or a pond, but I would be interested in it for my Q-tank. There would be no need to knock out a fish, stress it, and try to find bugs!!! Very Kool!! :cool:

[toothless]

Ok, here's the FULL description:

There are many different sources of the micron media. I happen to use the replacement "cartridges" for the Aquaclear Quickfilter attachment http://www.hagen.com/usa/aquatic/product.cfm?CAT=1&SUBCAT=114&PROD_ID=01005780020101 . A google/yahoo search with the terms above should yeild many sources. The AC micron media is actually a two ply/layer media. You can omit the fluffier "cotton" type layer if you like.

You "might" be able to get away with micron media designed for hepafilters and the other air devices but I can't say for sure.

Other sources are micron bags that can be found but some research is needed.

A hole is cut into the screw on top of the container that is to be used as the module. The hole should be JUST large enough to slip the barbed bulkhead fitting through it. then, its should be siliconed into place. Then an equally large hole should be cut into the bottom of the module. Once that is done, you cut two disks out of plastic canvas (that stuff is AWESOME for DIY) that are faintest tad smaller in diameter than the inside of the module. Lastly, you cut (I get 6 total) out disks of the 1 micron media and make them larger in diameter than the inside of the module.

I decided to add an aquatic plant cutting/seedling basket, cut in half, to keep the micron media suspended in the tube of the module to avoid dead areas of no waterflow.You can see it in the first pic I linked earlier. Thats how the micron media seems to be floating in the tube.


The plastic canvas disks sandwich the micron media. Anyway, as I described before, you want the micron media to be cut a little larger than the inner diameter of the module. This is so that when the top piece of plastic canvas (ut smaller than the inner diameter of the module) is in place, the excess "flappage" of the micron media is folded back towards the direction the water is flowing through (sort of a bowl effect).

Then the vinyl tubing section is what holds the finished module into place! :D:

I must stress that this idea works best when you remove the fish from the cycled environment to a "sterile" one for the duration of the screening. Perhaps a transfer or two from new water to new water before adding to the "sterile" screening conditions would help keep too much contamination from the beneficial microfauna that is most assuredly found in a cycled environ. There are a TON of lookalikes out there and its best to have the least amount of diversity on your slides as you can.

Oh yeah.... I pat out the debris found on the micron media out into a bowl of same water. I let it sit for a couple minutes and then scoope the debris into a submerged "pile" with a plaque pick. Then I draw sample from the "pile" with a syringe for transfer to a slide.

I hope that helps a bit! :)

[auntiesue]

YEP, MAKES SENSE!! Good point about moving the fish to sterile water for the duration of taking the sample. When I first started practicing with my scope and had no fish with bugs I would scrape gunk off the pond walls and just look. Lots of "look-a-likes" like you mentioned. Could easily fool someone that isn't as familiar with some parasites.

[Lee B]

Grumble, grumble, grumble . . .

I'm going to have to take the photo to the local marine warehouse and have them show me the parts you have. I haven't the *foggiest* idea what it is. I understand the directions, just not the media!

But Paul, that's an absolutely fabulous idea!

[toothless]

Well, I came here a little while back in search of some help in destroying that nasty chilo strain. I recieved some of the best advice I could have hoped for and it worked out in the end! I am now GREATLY relieved to say that Spud is now Chilo free and only days away from joining his new tankmate in a nice big ol tank! 6 months of ALL OUT BATTLE left me weary and hopless. But, now I can breathe deeply once again.... For that I thank each and every member here. I guess you can say that I am trying to pay my debt of gratitude by leaving you guys with something that could help one day. It is the very least I can do.


Lee,

This would work for the bulkhead fitting that goes through the lid on the module: http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1279307&cp=1254880.1255006.1306357&clickid=lefttnav_catlinks_txt&parentPage=family&searchId=1306357

You wouldn't even need to use any silicone.

But then theres what I used: http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1279343&cp=1254880.1255006.1306357&clickid=lefttnav_catlinks_txt&parentPage=family&searchId=1306357

In the picture, theres actually two pieces to it. The piece you need is the barbed end on the backside in the photo. It has a flap much like the plumbing piece in the first link (thus, the yellow gasket to create a seal). However, this one is barbed so that you only have to push the vinyl tubing coupler onto it rather than clamping or forcing it as you would with the first piece.

Thats the hardest part to this whole shebang. Getting the lid right........ ;)

[Lee B]

So pleased for Spud :yes: :cool: :yes: . He won't know how to act in big water, with new friends!

I'll figure out the rest . . . I'm just not sure about aquarium stuff. You see, I haven't had an aquarium in many, many moons (let's be honest: *decades*!). I'm not used to the paraphernalia, so I see, but don't understand. I understand the filter you made, and even how to make it. I'm just not sure what it's all attached to! I'm sure a quick stop at the big specialty store not far from where I work will be very enlightening ;) . Then I'll have to figure out how to make a GIANT version for grins and giggles.

The whole idea of straining the water to gather samples is intriguing; I'm used to getting the samples from the animal itself. In any event, I figure I'll have some interesting subjects under the scope, kinda like when I draw water from stagnant ditches and the like :cool: . I may not know what it is, but there sure is a lot of it :D:

[Da Whip]

For us newbies...can I get back to the food coloring for a minute? :D

Exactly how do you apply this to the sample. I imagine getting the sample and then placing it on the slide THEN placing a drop of color on or beside??? the sample, then placing the cover slip over that???? Is this right?

Also when you say "thin the snot" (sample) do you mean press or slide the slip cover gently?

Sue
Roll it around to nix the air bubbles.
The reason I brought this post back to life is that a buddy, and good customer, up in Broward , had what " I believe" to be a costia issue"
At first it sounded KHV ish
:rolleyes: ..
BUT
He lost a few cichlids and feeder guppies that he feeds hizzz Arowana :mad: ..
It's too far to ride but he is a school admin with a boreology dept. so he may have someone to so a proper scrape looking to the gillz( fish gasping) for my suspected terra_ristezzz.

[cindy]

Great thread.

Looking to buy some of the tools for my kit

http://www.hobbytool.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=23

[Lee B]

Cindy, see that first set of tweezers in the 4-tweezer set? That's my *favoritest* tweezers! You squeeze them to open, then release and the tweezers hold the item for you, versus having to maintain a grip on the tweezers the whole time. Really handy if you have to go "hands free". I have several of them in different sizes.

I don't know what they're called, but they're worth their weight in gold.

[Lee B]

No, the first one in this set:

[ponderingkoi]

I use the blue liquid food coloring you can get from the grocery store. I put a three drops on a clean slide, then put the cover slip with the scraped material on it. Haven't tried the dental tools, but since hubby is a dentist...might ask him to get me some of those. I also found that you need to shake the food coloring up well before using...some of that stuff sits on the shelves quite a while. The first time I used it, it was too purply and harder to see anything. A light blue works best for me. I'd rather put the colored drops on the slide first, so you don't by mistake get any slimecoat scrapings in the nozzle of the coloring dropper. Ponderingkoi

[aartwmich]

Bumpity bump.....remembered these pics:
http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showpost.php?p=368183&postcount=39
from long ago and need them now for presentation, Cindy helped me find the thread:yes:Thanks Cindy!! :thumb:

Great pics LeeB...but you forgot the pooper spot for a scrape:D:

[cindy]

thanks for bumping!