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rainblood
02-11-2008, 01:46 PM
I've always read the Ochiba was cross btwn chagoi and soragoi, but lately it seems the people have been crossing kohaku with chagoi? Which produces better results? Both seem to make sense

luke-gr
02-11-2008, 04:58 PM
IIRC, Gene at Koi Village told me that often Ochiba were bred to Kohakus with hope of improving the Ochiba pattern. I could be wrong, but if you are looking to produce Ochiba I think it would be best to start with one as a parent. :thinking:

Koidaddy
02-11-2008, 06:13 PM
As far as I know, Chagoi and Soragoi would be the correct recipe!

KD
;)

tnoble
02-12-2008, 04:05 PM
I found this bit of info today and thought I would show it here.

There are several different pairings used to produce Ochiba these days.

Chagoi x Kohaku (most common to specifically produce 'refined' Ochiba)
Chagoi x Asagi
Chagoi x Chagoi will throw them up too

Originally Chagoi and Soragoi were used.

Travis

JoesPonds.com
02-13-2008, 04:24 PM
Chagoi X Kohaku = Ochiba. At least this is what I was told during a visit to a local Koi farm last year...

Doug C.
07-02-2008, 06:14 PM
what is the recipe for gin rin ki utsuri, does anyone know

I have a gin rin chagoi female 25 inches + what = gin rin ki utsuri

Lari
07-02-2008, 08:31 PM
Someone posted this chart a long time ago... Perhaps it could be helpful in this discussion?

http://www.japan-nishikigoi.org/keitou.html

lukef
07-03-2008, 10:37 PM
wait?
it just looks like it'd be kohaku to soragoi to get Ochiba shigure?
A chagoi would be throw all brown koi
A soragoi to a kohaku would have the base gray and where the hi was showing up from the kohaku youd have brown.
right?

Hirogoi
07-04-2008, 01:44 PM
I think someone should just take a spawn and try all of them and see what makes the best.

wayne1
07-15-2013, 07:52 AM
I think someone should just take a spawn and try all of them and see what makes the best.

I have always bred Hi shusui to ochibas for a good deep brown color and a blue gunmetal color but there are many types of ochibas now like the ki ochibas which is my next cross of Ki shusui to ochibas next year ,also Aya Wakabas with a copper metallic luster are also good to cross with ochibas to produce the new copper ochibas !.:yes:

lifeoffaith
07-15-2013, 10:12 AM
Wayne, I have an ochiba like that myself. I got lucky and thought I was getting a black koi out of the $10.00 (now called the "cull" bucket by me) at the koi dealer in town. I just thought it was a really poor quality black koi, but as it grew a bit, it developed some nice brown and copper coloration alongside a much lighter grey. I am very happy with her and plan on breeding her next year. I tried this year, but couldn't get any official action and I think she might just be a bit young.

Bindi
07-16-2013, 05:15 AM
Ochiba Shigure roughly translates to autumn leaves on water and were developed from Chagoi x Soragoi. This description shows original phenotype.
The more recent introduction of Kohaku genetics is to create dorsal orientated islands of pattern (steps) instead of the older type of scattered leaf pattern as well as stronger colour. This change is market driven.
I prefer older type.