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Noahsnana
08-20-2007, 10:49 PM
I had mass spawns and have ended up with all kinds of different type of fry. I am amazed, most I can associate with koi in the pond but some are surprises. I have black fry, I do not have black koi. I do have 2 chagoi that get very dark but you can still see the gold on them. Others are just a wait and see because they are really wild looking. :cool3:

bigtylor
08-20-2007, 10:52 PM
Mine are all clear, yellow or white with black speckles. :confused: I had no yellow koi, and several white and one with black speckles. Will be interesting to see how they develop. I have several that appear yellow with a black "dot" on their head. Anyone know what that means? I am VERY pleased with the one we found that survived last falls spawn. She has become one of my favorites. :)

sundan
08-22-2007, 05:00 PM
Do you have showa? The black fry are likely showa.

GloriaL
08-22-2007, 05:30 PM
Are showa fry REALLY black or just kinda brownish black? I have probably20-30 of my 100+ fry that are a brownish color. I'm not sure if they are chagoi, mosquito fish or showa-to-be. They are the same size range as all my colored fry 1-3". I cannot se barbels on any of them(old eyes).

Noahsnana
08-22-2007, 05:47 PM
Do you have showa? The black fry are likely showa.

Yes I do Sundan

Rowly
08-23-2007, 10:16 AM
Where these fry born in a separate pond or with other mature kio being present... ? Thanks

Rowly

PapaBear
08-29-2007, 08:15 AM
It is amazing how many different types you can get, even from a "controlled" spawn, much less a pond wide orgy:eek1: Even "line bred" pairings of Kohaku will produce a multitude of benigoi, yamabuki, shiro muji, etc... and then you finally get around to some nice Kohaku.
Unlike most animals we are familiar with, Koi genetics are rather indiscriminate by comparison. They are hybrids of wild carp, and hybrids are always difficult to predict.
In our spawn this year we had one female, a Kin Aka Bekko from asagi roots. (she has asagi/goshiki netting down her dorsal line beneath the kinrin scales, and most modern varieties are descended from asagi genetics)
The males were standard fin Kohaku, Bekko, and 1 cream shiro longfin.
Taking the longfin fry alone as a model of a "controlled" breeding (known parents) the fry are a mixture of Kohaku, Bekko, Sanke, Yamabuki, Orengi, Chagoi, Ochiba, and a few indiscriminate mutts.

Noahsnana
08-29-2007, 10:31 AM
Where these fry born in a separate pond or with other mature kio being present... ? Thanks

Rowly


Sorry I missed your post Rowly

It was a pond spawn, I actually have babies from 6 known spawns this year. As PBear says an orgy among all old and young :rolleyes:

Noahsnana
08-29-2007, 10:33 AM
I have a few very interesting looking critters in the school of fry.

Carl
08-29-2007, 10:37 AM
I have a few very interesting looking critters in the school of fry.

Pics? :rolleyes:

Noahsnana
08-29-2007, 10:41 AM
Some bring a smile :D: of recognition others a confused :confused: look of I guess I need to wait and see.

I will have some for those starting ponds. I have about 30 in QT and 30 plus in the pond I can't catch.

Gene
08-29-2007, 11:02 AM
It is amazing how many different types you can get, even from a "controlled" spawn, much less a pond wide orgy:eek1: Even "line bred" pairings of Kohaku will produce a multitude of benigoi, yamabuki, shiro muji, etc... and then you finally get around to some nice Kohaku.
Unlike most animals we are familiar with, Koi genetics are rather indiscriminate by comparison. They are hybrids of wild carp, and hybrids are always difficult to predict.
In our spawn this year we had one female, a Kin Aka Bekko from asagi roots. (she has asagi/goshiki netting down her dorsal line beneath the kinrin scales, and most modern varieties are descended from asagi genetics)
The males were standard fin Kohaku, Bekko, and 1 cream shiro longfin.
Taking the longfin fry alone as a model of a "controlled" breeding (known parents) the fry are a mixture of Kohaku, Bekko, Sanke, Yamabuki, Orengi, Chagoi, Ochiba, and a few indiscriminate mutts.

Nishikigoi are not hybrids. They are all bred from varieties of common carp (Cyprinus carpio). Butterfly/longfin koi are hybrids.

I've never seen a Yamabuki Ogon come from a Kohaku paring.

PapaBear
08-29-2007, 01:36 PM
Nishikigoi are not hybrids. They are all bred from varieties of common carp (Cyprinus carpio). Butterfly/longfin koi are hybrids.

I've never seen a Yamabuki Ogon come from a Kohaku paring.

I may have been a little too "loose" with the term hybrid, so thanks for the correction. I guess my main point is that the gene pool of Koi is filled with recessive traits from their less refined genetic roots that can appear in any spawn, especially flock spawns, but also in controlled settings.

dick benbow
08-29-2007, 02:48 PM
aka mae kigoi (albino yellows) were first discovered in a kohaku spawning.
Talk about recessive.....the only colored koi you'll find with red eyes are white
or yellow with the latter more prevelent.

Gene
08-30-2007, 05:18 AM
I may have been a little too "loose" with the term hybrid, so thanks for the correction. I guess my main point is that the gene pool of Koi is filled with recessive traits from their less refined genetic roots that can appear in any spawn, especially flock spawns, but also in controlled settings.

This is true. You can get about anything from a flock spawn and quite a few from a controlled spawn.


aka mae kigoi (albino yellows) were first discovered in a kohaku spawning.
Talk about recessive.....the only colored koi you'll find with red eyes are white
or yellow with the latter more prevelent.

I'd heard that before, Dick and I can understand yellow coming from red, but in 11 years of dealing with koi I've yet to see any hakari varieties show up from any of my gosanke spawns.