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Fishbreeder
07-20-2007, 08:24 AM
3 days is about the right time for the "dwindles" to hit a tank of fry.

Although it is certainly possible to rear fry totally in captivity, they require some living food early in thier life to set thier guts to working right. By three days they are very much in need of nutrition. Artificial diets might keep them alive for that long, but that is also when we at the hatchery remove the fry from the hatchery to plankton ponds.

Next time you get a hatch, set up a second tank to raise them some food. Aquarium people call it "infusoria" and they will have many recipes for brewing it.

One recipe I know of that works pretty good.....

In a 100 gallon container that has some aeration and dechlorinated water add the following...

One quart of hard boiled iceberg lettuce and the "juice" it was boiled in.

One good armful of fresh hay or a gallon or so of dried grass clippings.

One quart of "live" water from a watergarden pool, standing water in a ditch, or if nothing else, water from the fish pond.

What you're shooting for here is rotifers, glass worms, and other very small plankters that are not easily seen with the naked eye. If you see stuff easily that is swimming around like little "bugs" you either got Daphne or Cyclops, both too big for the fry to eat, and big enough to eat the fry. These are good foods for two week old fry.

Usually the rotifers will come along in about three or four days.

Siphon some of the water from the rotifer tank to the fry tank about four or five times a day. Two or three days of this is enough then switch to artificial diet.

Timing is everything. So...

At 24 hours post hatch you will need to begin feeding the fry. You can use a mixture of hard boiled egg yolk and weight lifter's protein supplement at day one. Blend the materials then filter tham through a fine cloth or other fine material to remove the "chunks". Feed a small amount four to six times a day for the next two days. On day three switch to the rotifer soup. On day five start using the commercial "egg layer fry diet".

If so inclined, I've found that the 50 micron shrimp starter you buy from a place like AES works better than anything I;ve gotten from the pet shop.

At two weeks you can switch to ground up aquarium flakes.

All this time you must watch ammonia in the fry tank, if it elevates at all it will kill the fry. These rich soups will elevate the ammonia, so you will need to either filter tha tank or change the water regularly.

To filter the tank and not remove the fry use a couple of sponge filters. Best if they've been running in some tank water for about two weeks before you need them in your fry tank.

Hope this helps, have fun with your babies.

Brett

hunebasami
09-01-2007, 07:07 PM
THERE ARE BETTER WAYS TO FEED FRY. I HAVE BREED FOR YEARS AND IF YOU NEED FEED E-MAIL ME AT hunebasami@hotmail.com or call me at 808 330 3664. HI BRETT I AM HOWARD FROM HAWAII THAT ASKED YOU ABOUT THE DAINICHI SHOWA

JoesPonds.com
10-26-2007, 04:08 PM
If there are known better ways to feed fry, please post this info here for the benefit of all the amatuer breeders (myself included) who frequent this forum. Thanks...

bigtylor
10-26-2007, 04:17 PM
agreed. :D:

BekkoIsTheBest
10-26-2007, 04:38 PM
Same here...Some don't have the energy or the time to actually call....

But anyways...Thanks Brett!!! VERY informative!

dick benbow
02-14-2008, 06:43 PM
I think it's pretty gracious of Brett to help out learners after all the education, blood sweat and tears he's put on to be at the level he is.

I did take the time to write our hawaiin connection to inquire of his method
(always trying to learn something new)

I quess if i had to make a suggestion here, just take a small portion of hatched fry to raise. Most beginners try and raise too many, and then all kinds of issues arise ( pointy heads, curved gill covers etc) The secret in raising youngsters is live food the first month and lots of room

tracey_shafer
02-15-2008, 01:29 AM
I would love to hear of better ways also. I will have new fry wakins soon. I have been using dapina. Sometimes it is hard keeping them going.

1USAVET
06-14-2008, 03:01 AM
wow....there is a lot to learn about the breeding side of keeping a koi pond. I am going to have to start reading this forum more. Very interesting! :-)

texann
08-22-2008, 11:46 AM
OK, Brett, I understand that this procedure is done on large, controlled spawns, but what about little fish that are hatched in a regular hobby pond and we don't even see them until they are an inch or more in length? I have never successfully pulled out fry, and now maybe I see why, but is it just coincidence that I have better luck with the ones I leave in the pond? I don't have the facilities to deal with large numbers of survivors, so it's fine with me that a good number of them don't make it. Do the babies who make it just naturally find a limited amount of what you describe in this thread, or do the strong ones just make it without this optimum care?

femmeartist51
09-22-2008, 12:52 PM
Brett,
Last year we had two spawns. Boy that was alot of fry. We grew some of them out. At one time we had thousands. In regards to culling them out, it is hard when they are so little to cull. I was told to wait until you can at least see some of their color. I would like to cull sooner than that. I didn't want to have as many as we had, trying to get them to grow so we could cull them out. Do you think we should just cull them when they are able to be just seen as small guys, or wait until you see some of their color?? We used a sponge filter and had some ground up fine, high protein fish food. We did okay for along while with these little fish, but too out of hand with so many. Thanks for any advice. Lynda

Cowiche Ponder
09-22-2008, 12:57 PM
I think it's pretty gracious of Brett to help out learners after all the education, blood sweat and tears he's put on to be at the level he is.

I did take the time to write our hawaiin connection to inquire of his method
(always trying to learn something new)

I quess if i had to make a suggestion here, just take a small portion of hatched fry to raise. Most beginners try and raise too many, and then all kinds of issues arise ( pointy heads, curved gill covers etc) The secret in raising youngsters is live food the first month and lots of room

Dick did you ever get a reply back from Howard in HI??

vipldy
09-22-2008, 01:46 PM
Brett,
Last year we had two spawns. Boy that was alot of fry. We grew some of them out. At one time we had thousands. In regards to culling them out, it is hard when they are so little to cull. I was told to wait until you can at least see some of their color. I would like to cull sooner than that. I didn't want to have as many as we had, trying to get them to grow so we could cull them out. Do you think we should just cull them when they are able to be just seen as small guys, or wait until you see some of their color?? We used a sponge filter and had some ground up fine, high protein fish food. We did okay for along while with these little fish, but too out of hand with so many. Thanks for any advice. Lynda

I can't speak for Brett but we also had way to many and decided to cull early..We culled deformed then waited a while and culled out most of the solids. Its to hard unless you have a pond for them to raise them in stock tanks.We need to cull again 1 of the other tanks and be done with that one.

We are using box filters in the tanks untill they come in for winter where they will have better filters.

Marie

sumimono
11-07-2008, 01:58 PM
feed them with these.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1978/Plankton-by-Hikari

tnovak
02-23-2009, 02:48 PM
"One recipe I know of that works pretty good.....

In a 100 gallon container that has some aeration and dechlorinated water add the following...

One quart of hard boiled iceberg lettuce and the "juice" it was boiled in.

One good armful of fresh hay or a gallon or so of dried grass clippings.

One quart of "live" water from a watergarden pool, standing water in a ditch, or if nothing else, water from the fish pond"


How long for this to be ready to feed? Must it sit for a certain amount of days and 'cook'??

Kyponds&perennials
06-17-2009, 10:54 PM
bump

MAKENATILE
07-19-2009, 09:35 AM
what about feeding them live tiny brine shrimp? Thats what I fed my fighting fish babies- and they are microscopic. I kept a tank of hatched shrimp going the whole time. They loved it. fighting fish fry are smaller than koi fry right? They loved thawed frozen peas put thru the garlic press after a few weeks... and koi pellets smashed up to dust with a hammer. Thats what I feed my albino cory catfish. Those fry are tiny as well. I supply the local pet stores with those.

Wheres the Hawaii guy? I'm over on Maui...

my butterfly koi...

Jenkins
07-21-2009, 04:47 PM
i spawn my fish on spawning ropes and place the eggs in a 300 gallon cattle syrup tank that is fed from my main pond through a homemade venturi turned to pick up water to the tank. The overflow is directed back to the main pond through nylon window screens made into tubes to keep the fry from escaping, the long(2 feet) tubes allow water to pass and due to the size take longer to clog up with debris/algae. Mine eat algae,phyloplankton for the first week then i use crushed high protein catfish chow put in nylon stockings hung in the pond

floatinflowers
09-13-2009, 02:34 PM
The babies in my pond are huge compared to the ones I raised. I used big stock tanks and grow out ponds that are 8x4x4. I also feed Argent Cyclop-eeze for extra nutrition. They call it a "Bio engineered nutritional organism"! That is what it says on the can. It is suppose to be good stuff. I make my own baby food with egg yolk and baby food like spinich and peas. But I still have the problem of small fry at the end of the summer. It's like they don't grow. :confused:

BaitWrangler
06-01-2010, 02:27 PM
Has anyone ever heard of casein & gelatin? It's the diet which is fed in labs to Carp fry... don't know how it would compare to live food which is where my experience is.

wayne1
05-15-2011, 09:56 AM
hi I use decapsulated brine shrimp eggs from day one off the glass as it gets eaten right away and will not cut the gut of the fry and if any is left it hatches in the tank so the fry eat this the next 16 hour -24 hours the decapsulated egg will hatch also at low tempratures 60f so it works well and your fry will have a constant food supply on tap .
I prepare mine from dry egg a bulk bag 500gms 1lbs in old terms 1 gallon of house hold bleach and 2.5ltrs /half gallon of vinagar one bowl and sea salt 1lbs first place your dry eggs in a large bowl of tap water ideally in the sink set timer then add one gallon of bleach stir with a wooden spoon they will go from brown to white and then orange and start to sink to the bottom of the bowl ,trickle in cold water all the eggs will be at the bottom of the bowl keep water running slow for 1 hour then stop pour off all water till all you have is a orange mass at the bottom of bowl then pour in the malt vinagar stir well , leave for 30 mins then wash off with a slow trickle of water till you canot smell it any more make up a solution of salt water till you cannot dissolve any more salt into it place your eggs in this solution and store back in a bottle i use the empty vinagar bottle well wash out and have used this method for over 25 years the eggs will last 2 years or upto 5 years but i like to do fresh every year but i have used two year old eggs to feed this year and they were ok as you can see by my results in the pic's .
I find by useing this food you can get them on crushed crumb food quicker by mixing the two at feeding time and have fry on dry food in two weeks ! its the best thing since sliced bread try it it works well and is a cheaper way than buying it at a store !
happy koi breeding !

MikeS
05-15-2011, 10:16 AM
Thanks for the info Wayne!

Neli
08-07-2011, 05:00 AM
Good info Wayne, Thanks for giving it to us.
How are your babies?

wayne1
08-07-2011, 05:24 AM
:yes:hi guys no problem this food works well for any larve ,but koi it works brilliantly ! ,Neli yes posted more photo's on my thread and the colours are now starting to show ! as the Ogon gene's seem to slow this down unlike the shusui genes show out colours in 3-4 weeks ! and what I had thought to be Ki goi are now getting blue down the backs so these are Ki shusui as the orange is now turning a golden yellow ! but as in any photo this is not showing but in the flesh it shows very well so my final selections have been made and all the other fry are now sold to a dealer to help pay for my food bill and running costs !

and i have some good koi coming along 200 infact so a good year .its about time !!lol !:D:

Neli
08-07-2011, 05:36 AM
Wayne they look so good. U should be proud of them! They have changed so much and it is so inspiring.

wayne1
08-07-2011, 05:46 AM
thanks its all down to the decapsulated shrimp eggs giving them a great start !lol !!!!