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KoiCare
05-11-2007, 03:29 PM
Hi Everyone

Ok, please can you rate this Utsuri for me.
Breeder: Omosako
Sex: Male
Size: 35cm

What do you think?

jonathan
05-11-2007, 06:42 PM
i say with 1 beind the worst and 10 being the best maby a 7

Koidaddy
05-11-2007, 06:45 PM
Very nice specimen!:clap:
KD

Bill OTMS
05-11-2007, 06:53 PM
Very nice fish though I'd want more continuity/fill in the pattern.

KINGBASHI
05-11-2007, 06:56 PM
decent, but need better pics----steve

Dr J I Phillips
05-14-2007, 09:26 AM
A good breeder so we can be confident that the head will turn white and the black will consolidate. The body shape seems to have great potential to achieve a very large size indeed.
This koi should change a lot but for now I am not enthusiatic about the pattern.

mike pfeffer
05-14-2007, 11:09 AM
It's a male so how do we know the head will turn white?

KoiCare
05-14-2007, 12:34 PM
Again - thank you all for your comments!

Dr Phillips - I have been battling for the last 3 years to find a decent MALE Shiro Utsuri. The photo here is of my Shiro Female - and I have been trying to find a suitable male for her. All the nice shiros I have come across are all female.......I even purchased a Shiro locally, which I was told was a male, only to watch "HIM" spawn last year :no: - I was really mad to find my male was a female.......... I should have checked myself instead of relying on the breeder to do that.... lesson well learnt!

So far he is the nicest looking Male Shiro I have seen in years ...........
Anyone got any ideas on where all the males go to - funnily enough most of my collection are all females - it is like they disappear into a black hole......:D: .

Dr J I Phillips
05-15-2007, 01:44 AM
No guarantees the head will turn white but it should improve in a concrete pond.

jacovors
05-15-2007, 02:55 AM
Why not use a male Showa, you are bound to get quite a few Utsuri from the same spawn, and some nice Showa as a bonus.

KoiCare
05-15-2007, 07:50 AM
I have received so much conflicting advice - that I am really confused - just whenever I think I know what I am doing I realise I do not :D: .

I was told that if I spawn a Shiro Utsuri with a Showa - I will get majority "crapagoi" - I was told to only breed same varieties. ie: Shiro Utsuri with Shiro Utsuri - or Shiro with Hi Utsuri (if I wanted Showa) or Shiro with Ki-Utsuri (if I wanted Kin Showa) and then Showa with Showa.

Is this not correct?
:confused:

jacovors
05-16-2007, 02:53 AM
Yes that is also true, but like Showa , Utsuri are also black koi and the only drawback I can think of is that some Utsuri from this spawn might develop some secondary Hi later, not always.
I think if you have a good Showa male with modern Sumi you should give it a try.
The first culling would be the same, keep all black fry.

ikeepkoi
07-26-2007, 06:03 PM
Your Shiro Utsuri is very nice, but not the type of pattern I would prefer. I would prefer a bit less sumi than your has, but your Utsuri is still going to be a very beautiful koi as it developes further. When/if the sumi that has yet to come up to the surface does come up, the pattern will improve quite a bit IMHO.

If you're looking for a koi to use as a breeder, the pattern on it is NOT necessarily what you should be looking for anyway. The crispness and depth of color of the sumi base and shiro pattern is more important. The fact that the Utsuri you have is carrying genes from the Omosako Utsuri's is a BIG plus to that koi.

If you're planning on trying to crossbreeding with a Showa, I would think it best to place your male S Utsuri and another nice male Showa in with a nice Shiro Utsuri female. If both male koi do their business properly I would think you should wind up with a decent number of quality S Utsuri and Showa too. You'll always get a number of lesser quality offsprings with every koi spawn you have, but it's those few really nice quality ones that really make it worth while.

kgt1223
07-29-2007, 11:25 AM
Just to throw in my 2 cents worth. Even good bloodlines is no guarantee that good offspring will be produced, even in small numbers. Dont get me wrong, you are definitley hedging your bet with using the best bloodlines available, best skin quality, body conformation, early finishers, late finishers,
the list is endless, but many times pairings just dont work well. It's all part of the ride...............

DillonWren
07-30-2007, 12:15 AM
the fish has a little problem with pattern consistancy, but a good fish none the less I give it a 7

Koi Empire
08-08-2007, 03:36 PM
Just to throw in my 2 cents worth. Even good bloodlines is no guarantee that good offspring will be produced, even in small numbers. Dont get me wrong, you are definitley hedging your bet with using the best bloodlines available, best skin quality, body conformation, early finishers, late finishers,
the list is endless, but many times pairings just dont work well. It's all part of the ride...............


I agree with Keifer, but I mean to spice it up like ikeepkoi mention you could also use a nice male showa to the pairing and see what happens.

Jesse

KoiCare
08-08-2007, 03:48 PM
Thank you!
The advice is really appreciated!!!!
:yes:

Cowiche Ponder
08-08-2007, 05:50 PM
So did you get him??

KoiCare
08-09-2007, 03:25 AM
YES! I got him!:D:
I am a little worried about his body shape - if you can imagine the head area and as it starts to become the body (ie: where the scales start and in line with the edge of the Gill Plate) he has a very prominent hump ...... and the body looks too big for the head....... I was told that this is one of the signs that the fish is going to be big!

Is this nonsence?

steveamy
08-09-2007, 08:12 AM
There is talk in a couple of threads about the hump. Don't really know if the hump means it's going to be big, I would think it's just genetics though.

I am a fan of the muscle bulge hump thingy. I would be happy if my utsuri had the hump. Oh wait, if I had a shiro utsuri in my pond, I would be happy.

PapaBear
08-09-2007, 09:44 AM
YES! I got him!:D:
I am a little worried about his body shape - if you can imagine the head area and as it starts to become the body (ie: where the scales start and in line with the edge of the Gill Plate) he has a very prominent hump ...... and the body looks too big for the head....... I was told that this is one of the signs that the fish is going to be big!

Is this nonsence?

I don't see ANY issues with the body conformation. Like the good Dr. said, it appears to have a great deal of potential size-wize. The nice broad head/shoulder area is always nice for future growth, a nice shoulder "hump" is also a good growth characteristic (although from this picture angle I can't tell if it has one), and it also seems to have a nice thick tailtube. Finding an Utsuri with this kind of body is not that easy.

KoiCare
08-09-2007, 11:43 AM
Ah, thank you!!!!!!
I am feeling better already!!!
:clap: