View Full Version : Dainichi - Koiphen Breeder Seminar I
Good evening Koiphen! Tonight we begin the first Koiphen Breeder Seminar featuring Dainichi. This is intended to be a group project and we encourage everyone to participate. We have an outline of the issues we would like to cover and we hope you will help us to do so. As the discussion progresses, I will go back to the beginning posts and add information, where appropriate, so that the first “page” of the thread will cover the salient facts. Please feel free to contribute any photos that are relevant to the breeder. Even if we do not use your contributions in the first page, your contributions will remain part of the thread. While the first page of the thread will contain narrative, your questions, responses and anecdotes will make the thread richer.
Tonight you will notice that we have some introductory material provided by Kodama Koi Farm. They have been kind enough to give us permission to reprint their material, and may be participating more directly in future seminars.
We hope you enjoy this event and look forward to doing this again in the near future.
I. Introduction
Dainichi Koi Farm - Creators of Beautiful Nishikigoi
Reprinted With Permission of Kodama Koi Farm
Dainichi Koi Farm is probably one of the most known breeders in the world. Because of its quality and body, everybody would like to have at least one nice Koi from Dainichi.
Futoshi Mano, who has taken over the great assets (parents Koi) from his fatehr, the late Mano, works hard to produce higher quality Nishikigoi.
http://www.kodamakoifarm.com/images/dainichi_koi_farm.jpg
Dainichi Koi Farm
Introducing Japanese Nishikigoi breeders means introducing Japanese representative breeders. For me to do so, I must begin with "Dainichi Koi Farm" because it is Dainichi who actually established the origin of Japanese Nishikigoi.
http://www.kodamakoifarm.com/images/dainichi_01.jpg
Futoshi culling and
Shigeru supporting.
Lineage of Dainichi Koi Farm
The lineages the Dainichi brothers currently use all originated from the following three Nishikigoi. Mr.Minoru Mano, their father, devoted his life establishing these lines: "Dainichi Kohaku," "Dainichi Sanshoku" and "Dainichi Showa." It is not too much to call them the "treasure" of the Nishikigoi industry.
http://www.kodamakoifarm.com/images/dainichi_03.jpghttp://www.kodamakoifarm.com/images/dainichi_04.jpghttp://www.kodamakoifarm.com/images/dainichi_05.jpg
It would be impossible for the brothers to produce more beautiful Nishikigoi, higher quality Nishikigoi no matter how hard them try. They are that excellent. I hope that they produce more of this quality and supply them around the world.
http://www.kodamakoifarm.com/images/dainichi_02.jpg
There is a lot of work involved in Nishikigoi breeding. More than you could expect. There are times when you have to work in overwhelming snow more than 1 meter (or 3.28 ft) in depth during winter season. You cannot sleep when you are hatching more than 8 million fries during the breeding season. You spend every single day until fall culling them till after releasing them to mud ponds In the meantime, you must take care of the bigger Koi, It is a series of hard work that all 9 staff members must work morning to night to complete. But all the Koi hobbyists, all the Dainichi fans look forward to their breeding Koi with "high quality" and "full of charm."
It falls upon you to give them good care when you obtain Dainichi Kohaku, Dainichi Sanshoku or Dainichi Showa because it will be the only Dainichi piece in the world. And also, please enter them in Koi shows. The late Mano dedicated his whole life to complete these lines. His sons inherited them and breed them carefully. Please share beauty of Dainichi pieces of Nishikigoi with many hobbyists.
Body Conformation Distinguishes Koi of Dainichi
Skinny Nishikigoi
When it reaches 70 to 80cm(28"to 32"), its body conformation is perfect. The body is symmetrical and beautiful. The beauty is the result of its lineage as well as the method of raising it.
Please note the Kohaku. This picture of the Kohaku was taken when it was 3 years old. In other lineages, it is usual for a 3 year old Koi to have body conformation as in this picture. But in Dainichi Koi Farm, they do not feed 3 to 5 year old Koi at all from October to April. This way, they remove all the gained fat during summer. They intend to make their Nishikigoi skinny like this picture.
http://www.kodamakoifarm.com/images/dainichi_07.jpg
By repeating such absolute fasting during winters of 2 to 5 years, Nishikigoi of Dainichi can complete a more prefect beautiful body conformation when it reaches more than 80cm(32"). But, Nishikigoi from other lineages would not get the skinny body of Dainichi eve if they fasted for 7 months. So we can think that this character of Nishikigoi losing all the fat during winter is another characteristic of Dainichi.
More than 80cm a Dainichi would coat at least 5 to 6 million yen ($50,000 to $60,000). Therefore, the secret of getting good Dainichi Koi is the get skinny, high quality 3 to 4 year old Nishikigoi.
The second characteristic is skin quality. Quality in the case of Kohaku means 'hi' quality and 'shiroji'(white background)quality. On Koi of Dainichi, 'shiroji' is especially characterized.
Comparing with the other lineages would explain the difference easily. The 'shiroji' is like the one of pottery. Also, Fukurin appears more.
Some may say that Fukurin can be found only in Ogon variety. But it is not true. Fukurin appears in Kohaku, Taisho Sanshoku and showa, too. For the beauty of Fukurin, Dainichi Koi is regarded as a top of Japanese Nishikigoi.
http://www.kodamakoifarm.com/images/dainichi_06.jpg
Mano brothers picking up a
4-year-old Kohaku.
Fukurin is an Important Key Point to Tell Quality
Ogon will have very beautiful Fukurin when it becomes 80 to 85cm(32" to 34"). I think you know well about the Fukurin of Ogon. It is true that Fukurin came from Ogon. But this is not only for Ogon. We can find Fukurin in Kohaku, Sanke, and Showa variety, too. Fukurin is difficult to tell on 2 to 3 year old Koi. It will not be clear enough until Nishikigoi grow as big as 790 to 80cm(28" to 32").
More than 30 years ago, there were no Kohaku, Taisho Sanshoku, and Showa over 70cm; there were only the very large Asagi and Ogon. Then we noticed the beauty of Fukurin on these large varieties. This is how the word Fukurin came about. Because other varieties like Gosanke were still small at that time, we could not see Fukurin on them. This is why there was some misunderstanding that "Fukurin' is the word only for Asagi and Ogon.
But now when Gosanke can grow as big as more than 70cm, they can have beautiful Fukurin like this Taisho Sanshoku in the picture. Of course, not all the Nishikigoi can necessarily have Fukurin, which is regarded as very high quality. Fukurin will appear on "hi" plate as well. But in this case, it appears beautiful especially the 'shiroji'
A characteristic of Dainichi Sanke is this beautiful appearance of Fukurin.
Taisho Sanshoku in picture B is only 4 year old and 65cm(26")long. Her skin is outstanding. But the Fukurin has not appeared yet. In old days, this was the biggest size they could get. This is why Fukurin was considered only for Asagi and Ogon.
Secret of Buying Dainichi Kohaku for Value Price
When Dainichi Koi are 3 to 5 years old, the body conformation is very thin and looks very poor. As this Koi grows, it will get more flesh on its body and from the beautiful body. I have purchased a 20 million Japanese Yen ($200,000) Nishikigoi at Dainichi Koi Farm. She was a 10 year old Kohaku 80cm (32")long. She was so beautiful and powerful. Dainichi Koi will become more beautiful and more powerful as it grows. It is natural that the price goes higher as it becomes more beautiful.
http://www.kodamakoifarm.com/images/dainichi_09.jpghttp://www.kodamakoifarm.com/images/dainichi_10.jpghttp://www.kodamakoifarm.com/images/dainichi_11.jpg
It is the charm of Koi hobby to buy high grade and quality Nishikigoi when it is still inexpensive. So, as far as Dainichi Koi is concerned, it is a good chance to buy when 3 to 5 year old Koi looks thin and poor. This is a little secret of buying good Dainichi Koi.
Though they are from the same lineage, and though they are even from the same parents, not all of them will become as beautiful as their parents. At Dainichi, they hatch more than 8 million fries every season. But by fall, they only select 3,000 to 4,000 of the Tosai to keep. Moreover, they select about 1,000 tategoi to grow. What we see here are already-severely selected Koi. Out of these, Mr.Hiroshi Mano and I picked out this Kohaku.
Her skin is pure white. Since it is only 5 years old and 70cm long, of course we cannot see Fukurin yet.
Because its body conformation is still thin, its pattern looks long line. But once it gets good volume, it will turnout very distinguished and stable three-step pattern. Especially with the wide 'shiroji' on its shoulder, it will be impressionable.
The Process of Nishikigoi becoming Beautiful Gives a Great Impression!
When we see beautiful Nishikigoi, we feel very impressed. Each person's impression will very. About the showa in picture1, there may be many readers who think that his is not that beautiful. But I think this is natural. Though Nishikigoi is a kind of an art, there are many other beautiful artworks like pictures. And many of you have seen them. Compared with these artworks, this Showa is not that beautiful.
However, Nishikigoi that were living 200 year ago were just Magoi (black carp.) It was a series of trial and error and repeated unlimited times of breeding and culling to achieve this Showa. They turned the color of living Magoi to pure white skin and developed red patterns on the white skin. In addition, they made truly deep black or 'sumi', totally different quality and color from that of we can understand this value more and will be more impressed with this living artwork.
=============================================
Current Facilities
"The Dainichi facility is tested monthly for several virus' by the Japanese government and has never been infected with KHV, SVC, or any of the other deadly viral pathogens. They had good biosecurity in place prior to the problems coming to the forefront."
Brett Rowley
II. History
Founder and current proprietors.
Minoru Mano, the founder of Dainichi Koi Farm, died in 1998. His sons names are Futoshi, Hiroshi, and Shigeru. Hiroshi is in charge of the newly opened branch at Toyota city, Aichi prefecture.
Development of Facilities
Earthquake damage.
III. Koi
Development and Characteristics of signature koi
Kohaku
"The defining characterisitic of Dainichi kohaku for me is the maruzome of the trailing edges of the hi plates.
Maruzome refers to the scalloped appearance of the back edges of each step where the hi color tends to follow along the lines of the scales themnselves. This as opposed to kamisore where the trailing edge of each hi step cuts across each scale for a straight edge appearance rather than a scalloped one."
Brett Rowley
http://koiphen.com/forums/showpost.php?p=852904&postcount=13
"What are the characteristics - good white and good thick beni, quite a slim body."
Dr. J.I. Phillips
http://koiphen.com/forums/showpost.php?p=852847&postcount=10
Showa
Sanke
The Matsunosuke and Dainichi Sanke are well regarded by the koi hobbyist. Both have excellent growth characteristics. Both have a good, though differently shaped body and clear, well colored skin, with deep hi and dense sumi. Matsunosuke Sanke tend to finish at about five years or older, but retain their peak quality for much longer than many bloodlines. Dainichi breeds an excellent Sanke and Kohaku. They have has strong and graceful lines. They mature early and have an excellent skin quality.
McGilly, Kate. KOI Appreciation: The First Step. The Crowood Press, Limited
V. Photos of Champions
Here are two All-Japan Show Grand Champions, the first bred by the father, the second bred by the sons.
Here is the famous Inazuma "lightning pattern" showa that won Grand Champion of the 1990 All Japan Shinkokai Show.
The second photo is the recent 2007 Grand Champion, 90 cm and just about perfect. :bow: Credit for this nice photo should go to Tim Waddington (I added the yellow text).
VI. Photos of Member's Dainichi Koi
Leekinneykoi
03-12-2007, 07:23 PM
I think all the members with the info. in their heads or where to get it are away right now Carl;) . Great start though, this will be fun for many of us to learn from:yes: :cool: .
Ronin-Koi
03-12-2007, 08:18 PM
I'll post this easier contribution then sit back and learn from those with more experience.
Here are two All-Japan Show Grand Champions, the first bred by the father, the second bred by the sons.
Here is the famous Inazuma "lightning pattern" showa that won Grand Champion of the 1990 All Japan Shinkokai Show.
The second photo is the recent 2007 Grand Champion, 90 cm and just about perfect. :bow: Credit for this nice photo should go to Tim Waddington (I added the yellow text).
- Wayne, really appreciating the history of Dainichi... lots more to learn.
The Matsunosuke and Dainichi Sanke are well regarded by the koi hobbyist. Both have excellent growth characteristics. Both have a good, though differently shaped body and clear, well colored skin, with deep hi and dense sumi. Matsunosuke Sanke tend to finish at about five years or older, but retain their peak quality for much longer than many bloodlines. Dainichi breeds an excellent Sanke and Kohaku. They have has strong and graceful lines. They mature early and have an excellent skin quality.
McGilly, Kate. KOI Appreciation: The First Step. The Crowood Press, Limited
janemm
03-12-2007, 10:28 PM
Here are pictures of my Dainichi tosai showas from last September at about 9-10". Sorry I don't have better or more current photos. Additional sumi has come up on both and the beni on the kindai has filled in nicely.
They were purchased in June '06 from Eastern Nishikigoi here in SoCal. Lucky enough to be there when they were being unbagged:cool: I don't think theyre getting in any Dainichi tosai this year.
Jane
Brian Drake
03-12-2007, 11:23 PM
Carl...great start.
Andrewn15
03-12-2007, 11:40 PM
Great post Carl.
I enjoyed it very much.
more please.
Andrew
Here are pictures of my Dainichi tosai showas from last September at about 9-10". Sorry I don't have better or more current photos. Additional sumi has come up on both and the beni on the kindai has filled in nicely.
Jane
Jane,
Would you mind telling us where you purchased these koi? I presume you bought them in September? When I go back and fill in the section for "members' koi," it would be neat to have that info, but only if you feel comfortable providing it.
koiross
03-13-2007, 05:15 PM
Here are my Dainichi Kohaku.....sorry guess not....because...
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dick benbow
03-13-2007, 06:50 PM
My fondest remebrances of daiinich koi farms came while on a trip with peter waddington. Instead of pulling up with all the buses and hordes of potential buyers, we quietly drove to an off location greenhouse that peter explained was one of his dainich's tategoi houses. Our group consisted of 4 hobbyists, 2 from america, 1 from canada, and one from the UK. For several hrs we had many wonderful koi bowled and several nice koi purchased. His kohaku and
Showa were incredible. I was most impressed with the soft white. This was at a time when all believed that with the death of Mano, his son's could never replicate what their father had begun. The examples of koi we saw dispelled that in a hurry and history has proven that daiinich is alive and well. We were hosted by the second son , who spoke excellent english. sorry for the ramblings, if we could invite brett to tell stories, that's the american breeder that knows the "boys" as well as anyone. Many of his top breeders and imported koi for sale are from daiinichi. When you look at today's top breeders more than a handful of the best interned under mano-san. Nogami is a classic example......
Brian Drake
03-13-2007, 07:24 PM
Here are a few photos of the "old Glass Palace". They used to live right to the left of the koi operation. I remember having lunch in that house twice and the hospitality of Mr. Mano and his wife and three sons was amazing...that was over 10 years ago...there is a video I think I have somewhere wher a japanese news station interviewed Mano about the koi industry...I will have to dig that up...another time many years ago I was told it is ok to ask to bowl a koi...so I did on a fantastic kohaku to see it and ask the price...they did and they thought I had bought it...my mistake and I huddled with my koi group and explained that we won't ask to bowl unless we are 100% sure we are going to buy that particluar koi. A lesson learned there.
Another time we were there on the first famous Kato mudpond tour with Mr. Kato and Dr. Tsai hosting and helping...one of my friends wanted a Dainichi Showa and we had one of the brothers net and bowl this huge GC style Showa...expensive koi. So we huddled and talked about the price...we then talked to Dr. Tsai of Taiwan and he talked to the head brother and the price was sliced in half...OMG story. Bought...incredible. I couldn't believe my eyes and ears. That was impressive and kind.
They now have a new facility that only sells higher end koi...and they are using the old glass palace as a holding facilty and now locked...last time I was there in Dec.
Here are a few photos of the "old Glass Palace". They used to live right to the left of the koi operation. I remember having lunch in that house twice and the hospitality of Mr. Mano and his wife and three sons was amazing...that was over 10 years ago...there is a video I think I have somewhere wher a japanese news station interviewed Mano about the koi industry...I will have to dig that up...another time many years ago I was told it is ok to ask to bowl a koi...so I did on a fantastic kohaku to see it and ask the price...they did and they thought I had bought it...my mistake and I huddled with my koi group and explained that we won't ask to bowl unless we are 100% sure we are going to buy that particluar koi. A lesson learned there.
Another time we were there on the first famous Kato mudpond tour with Mr. Kato and Dr. Tsai hosting and helping...one of my friends wanted a Dainichi Showa and we had one of the brothers net and bowl this huge GC style Showa...expensive koi. So we huddled and talked about the price...we then talked to Dr. Tsai of Taiwan and he talked to the head brother and the price was sliced in half...OMG story. Bought...incredible. I couldn't believe my eyes and ears. That was impressive and kind.
They now have a new facility that only sells higher end koi...and they are using the old glass palace as a holding facilty and now locked...last time I was there in Dec.
Brian
Didn't this facility suffer significant damage during the earthquake?
Brian Drake
03-13-2007, 07:53 PM
I saw a bit when we drove by in Dec. The house also looked damaged...they are both located very close to the running river a few feet away from these buildings.
I found this:
" While they lost a lot of fish they had their famous bloodline & brood stock in ponds up in the mountains. This was very fortunate for the Mano family in that all of the parent fish survived this tragedy. Although they took a catastrophic hit they are already in the process of rebuilding."
MOTO-KARA KOI ZNA CLUB
January 2005 Meeting Minutes
Submitted by: Dot Wilbanks, Vice President
http://www.mkk-zna.com/january.html
Brian Drake
03-13-2007, 09:28 PM
Great stuff Carl!
Fishbreeder
03-14-2007, 09:52 AM
I have had a long and close relationship with the Mano family.
I met Minoru Mano (founder) in '92 when traveling through Niigata with Bob Spindola, buying my first (real) breeding stock. It was a short visit and I was also introduced to a Mr. Izumiya, presented to me as Manosan's sensei.
For the next coupla years I didn't think about Dainichi much. I bred the fish I got, worked a lot with Mr. Suda and his family in the early years. Apparently word of my project got around Japan.
Late one night my wife comes to me with the phone, telling me "its somebody from Japan." It was a high ranking ZNA koi judge's daughter calling me, serving as interpreter for her father. Her father asks (through his daughter) if it would be OK with me if a young son of the Mano's could come and live in Houston. Of course I had no objection and I was confounded as to why the call?
I called Goforth the next day and told him about the call. He was not surprised. He explained to me that no Japanese koi breeder would be so forward as to place his adult child in another's back yard without first asking permission. He went on to say that the call meant that I had earned the respect of the Japanese koi breeding community and that it was a great honor. Thus began my long term relationship with Dainichi.
Soon after Shigeru Mano came to live with the Goforths and attend U of H. During his stay I met his brothers and his mother. He now returns each spring to visit, bring me breeding stock, and bring a few of his fish for me to sell.
Shigeru is soft spoken, not as shy as he used to be, and knows more about koi than anybody I ever met (maybe outside his dad). He is a master at matching the fish to the customer, somehow figuring what it is the customer is searching for, then helping the customer make the proper acquisition. He has an excellent command of the English language and communicates well with his English speaking customers.
Shigeru will be coming to visit next month and he will be bringing me a new brood fish (kohaku) as well as a group of gin-U-wine Dainichi tosai.
With thier latest big win in Japan, thier fish have come into very high demand. The sons have proven that the fruit did not fall far from the tree.
The Dainichi facility is tested monthly for several virus' by the Japanese government and has never been infected with KHV, SVC, or any of the other deadly viral pathogens. They had good biosecurity in place prior to the problems coming to the forefront.
The Manos are true salt of the Earth people, real dirt farmers that grew into koi breeding from farming rice and fish. This is the traditional koi breeder model we all want to believe in. Very unlike the more usual model where the breeder makes a fortune at something else then becomes a "gentleman farmer" breeding koi like gentlemen farmers breed racehorses here in the US.
For those of us that have been in the hobby (or business) for many years, the name "Dainichi" evokes thoughts of quality, grace, beauty, and the pinnacle of koi breeding.
Brett
Does anybody know the names of each of Mano's sons and their respective responsibilites at Dainichi Koi Farms?
I'm glad Brett posted to this thread.
I first heard about Dainichi through the president of a koi club that is no longer active. That was in 1996. I bought my first Dainichi tosai in 1997 and still have 15 of those. Most of the others are still happily living in hobbyist ponds. A couple are using the Dainichi koi they bought from me as brood stock and report they are doing very well.
Later in '97 I bought and read "Koi Kichi" by Peter Waddington. Minoru Mano was a real inspiration to me since he did not descend from a long line of koi breeders, but started the Dainichi Koi Farm as a young man. He went on to become the top koi breeder in Japan before his untimely death in the fall of 1998.
I’ve since learned more about the Mano family from Brett and others.
dick benbow
03-14-2007, 03:45 PM
Brett,
thank-you! I know your busy but also knew of everyone I know that this was a special relationship between you two......no one better to share about it!
Bob Winkler
03-14-2007, 04:34 PM
Great posts!!! I love Dianichi Showa especially. This is a koi of ours I have posted b4, but Harley is one of our all time favorites..
ack.. I do not seem to have permission to post pix anymore :confused: :confused:
Great posts!!! I love Dianichi Showa especially. This is a koi of ours I have posted b4, but Harley is one of our all time favorites..
ack.. I do not seem to have permission to post pix anymore :confused: :confused:
I'll see what's going on. It has been an intermittent problem.
Bob -
I have got a message iinto Justin regarding the problem. In the meantime, feel free to tell us what you think are the distinguishing characteristics of the Dainichi showa line. :d:
Charles Pearson
03-14-2007, 09:58 PM
Brian
Didn't this facility suffer significant damage during the earthquake?
These are images I shot one a a half years ago. Notice the top step of the stairs and you can see that the house is lifting up a foot or more. Sliding down the hill.. Was told that they plan to take this historic house apart board by board and rebuild.
Charles Pearson
03-14-2007, 10:00 PM
Another image.
koiross
03-14-2007, 10:59 PM
hope this works.... ok I'm done still dosen't work
hope this works
Don't say last time! Justin is going to try to fix this glitch, hopefully after hours tonight.
savannahrobinson
03-14-2007, 11:03 PM
This photo was taken in 2005. She's bigger now.
When the photo was taken, we had pulled her out of the pond just a day or two before the show - so her nose is stained with algae. After the show, while we had her in clear water in quarantine, the nose turned white again. :)
She isn't the best fish Dainichi has ever produced - I really think that would be THE inazuma showa - but she makes me sing. :yes:
The companion showa in this photo is "Torch" - who is a Brett Rowley breeding from Dainichi parents. :D:
Bob Winkler
03-14-2007, 11:18 PM
Purty Sav :)
Dr J I Phillips
03-15-2007, 05:19 AM
A local dealer imported some tossai last year. At the end of May they were in QT and available for viewing. I liked this kohaku. The shape seemed good, the white was good and the red seemed strong. Being Dainichi, it was a alittle more expensive than some of the other tossai on offer. KHV tests were all negative. It had a little fin damage.
I took it home to my own QT and all went well. No parasites. After 4 weeks at permissible temperatures with a few naive Koi it was ready for the big pond.
Follow up to follow.
Charles Pearson
03-15-2007, 06:32 PM
Great posts!!! I love Dianichi Showa especially. This is a koi of ours I have posted b4, but Harley is one of our all time favorites..
ack.. I do not seem to have permission to post pix anymore :confused: :confused:
Hey Bro, Keep try'in!! dying to see what you got.
(you going to the Southern Calif. ZNA this weekend?)
Gazkoi
03-16-2007, 05:21 PM
Well her is my little Showa hope you like her:
http://www.koipix.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10094/normal_IMG_4551.JPG
vipldy
03-16-2007, 05:23 PM
She is very pretty!
Marie:D:
I am going to be moving this to the library soon. I will continue to add information as I acquire it, but the seminar has run its course.
I am going to try to start another one this weekend.
Thank you for your participation.
Dkoinut
03-19-2007, 07:53 PM
Thanks Carl and all who have participated. I have enjoyed this and look forward to more. Sorry I couldn't add anything. I'm in the learning stage only right now, and it looks like I'm not alone in.:clap:
Thanks Carl and all who have participated. I have enjoyed this and look forward to more. Sorry I couldn't add anything. I'm in the learning stage only right now, and it looks like I'm not alone in.:clap:
I think we are all still learning. :yes:
This thread has been moved to the "Seminars" section of the "Library." Please feel free to continue to contribute to it. I shall whenever I get more info.
koiman1950
12-17-2008, 07:01 PM
Well, I WAS going to post a couple pics here but it doesn't even show the "manage attachments" to do so. Is this still a problem from last year or what?
Mike