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Tom
05-21-2004, 10:20 AM
Having seen the thread on PP and so this doesn't get missed in the larger thread...

PP can be dangerous and like a lot of things it happens when you 'think' you know what you're doing rather than actually knowing what you're doing.

I had to give (recommended to me by someone that definately knows their stuff) a Kohaku a 90min dip in 0.5g of PP. I measured this out, gave the dip, after a while (30 mins) fish looked distressed so took it out and retuned it to the pond. After half an hour it was dead.

I've used PP many times, always when I've known how much to give and exactly what I was treating for. This time to get 0.5g I used a gram scale (min measure 1g) and carefully halved the amount measured out.

However, thinking about it later, my scales could easily have shown 1.9g as 1g as 1g was the minimum scale, so rather than have 0.5g I could have had nearly 1g - almost twice as much as I wanted. I should have made up a 1g solution then halved this....

I ended up losing a very expensive fish that had appeared in NI.

cindy
05-21-2004, 10:41 AM
Thats a shame.

I think after the lost baby, I'll just pp the new plants.

koiingaround
05-21-2004, 10:44 AM
Tom...I to am sorry for your loss... :(

Thank you for posting this!! Hopefully many can learn from your heartbreaking experience...

I am going to cut and paste this to the larger PP thread so it can be read there too! Seeing the uses of PP AND the big dangers together gives a better line of information to all IMHO! :)

Tom
05-21-2004, 10:47 AM
Just for info - when I looked at its gills they were completely fried.

koiingaround
05-21-2004, 10:48 AM
Oh! That is so very sad! Did you by chance take any pictures??? :confused:

cindy
05-21-2004, 10:49 AM
Oh and Tom - welcome to the board!

Sarge
05-21-2004, 10:49 AM
Gotta do some reading prior to using. I believe Roddy, Roarke, and Bill have all helped me in this area. That is not to say that I feel real comfortable with using the chemical, but I use in such a manner and low dose that I am not at risk. Knowing the danger this chem can do to your herd is paramount. You MUST RESPECT it immensely.

koiingaround
05-21-2004, 10:50 AM
Oh goober me! I didn't notice! ((thank you cindy))

WELCOME TOM!!! :eek:

schildkoi
05-21-2004, 11:06 AM
Not by anymeans to kick a guy when they are down, because I do sympathise, let me offer some more thoughts.

You said .5g....for how much water?

Not knowing all of the details, I will add that if a Koi has severe gill damage to begin with, PP can compound the issue and bring about what could have otherwise been the inevitable.

The whole "trick" whether it be with PP, MG/F or other chemicals is to kill the targeted parasite before the Koi is killed from the chemical treatment. Specific dosages, accurately measured will work in most cases...but there are those cases where the Koi may have otherwised died anyway.

Tom
05-21-2004, 11:11 AM
Long time no speak Mr Frog Killer !

It was last year, can't remember the water volume now but trust me, I did everything Sauave suggested, Gills were ok before I commenced, Whatever the water volume was I had it right, I double checked everything, only conclusion I could make was I had the PP measurement off.

schildkoi
05-21-2004, 12:40 PM
Mr. Lally Dasical? :)

Yeah. Measuring .5 gram is next to impossible without a VERY accurate scale. I always use the "law of large numbers" to help prevent some possible inconsistencies in measurement. If you note the 200 ppm dose I quote and compare to Ol Grumpy's "dip" you'll find that he says 3 minutes and I backed off to 2.5. In addition, I always use an extra liter (41 instead of 40) with the 8 grams. If you are goin to error, make it towards the safer side of the equation :)

Blammo
05-21-2004, 09:06 PM
Gotta do some reading prior to using. I believe Roddy, Roarke, and Bill have all helped me in this area. That is not to say that I feel real comfortable with using the chemical, but I use in such a manner and low dose that I am not at risk. Knowing the danger this chem can do to your herd is paramount. You MUST RESPECT it immensely. Absolutely correct.
The chemicals (ALL CHEMICALS) must be mixed to perfection .
The ponds gallonge must be very,very accurate .
Supplemental air is a must...be it a Roark spray bar or an air pump, or shootin water up in the air and crashing it into the tank.
The water temperature must be known...buy a thermometer. 85 degrees ? Leave the PP in the cabinet.
Formalin ??? borderline dangerous...
Break out the acraflavin !
For certain chems.. the hardness(s) and TA must be known. Copper is the main one where this is critical/ life or death.

I'm working on the Word document for PP use.. It's long. Be patient.

I have never lost a non heavily damaged fish to a PP treatment... or any other chemical treatment.
The ones that were pushed over the edge would have died anyway due to parasitic gill damage/ bacterial gill infection/septic etc.
Many have perished ! Wheel barrows full !.
Speed and accuracy of diagnosis is the key.

I have treated batches of 1200-2500 fish at a time. Over 10,000, sometimes 50,000 in a day, many times.

Never treated that many koi at once... Only 150- 800 at a time, commercially.
Fixed allot of small hobbiest ponds.. Lost allot of their fish when it was too **** late/advanced parasite damage.... I get the call...3 died today.
Ok , I'll be over in the morning...4 more dead at sunup.
At that point there aren't any miracles.
You save the ones that can stand the treatment AND ERADICATE THE PARASITE, and cry over the rest.
Such is fish keeping.:(


You not only have to worry about fish damage with these chemicals but damage to yourself, your skin, eyes, clothes, and pets, carpet etc..etc...

Using chemicals for fish, plants or any other serious bidness (epoxy work, electrical work, auto repair, riding a drag bike) is not for kidzzz or dimwitzzz.
It is very serious, take your time, type of work.

//////// Sarge. Lord knows you can follow directions to a tee.:cool:

Read the orders.
Follow.
Report.
Everyone benefitzzz.

Man mee tired. 6 hour round trip to Labelle, fl.
Flukes.......
Fixed.... no mortalites, yet...
The morning will tell.......
Not good koi, but about 40 of them.
Never seen a bad koi when they're hurting... They're all good, albeit Fugly, (and large)
Blammmo

Sarge
05-21-2004, 09:14 PM
The Zzz man has spoken. Thanks, I was hoping you would impart some of you experience and knowledge with us.