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View Full Version : Betta lays on side???



CarolinaGirl
03-28-2006, 08:23 AM
Maybe JR or Art can help me with this one! One of my half moon males lays in the bottom of his tank. He has been doing this for weeks. When I say he lays there, I mean he lays on his side like a dead fish! He eats normally, swims some, then returns to the bottom of the tank for a nap. Everytime I see him, I think he's dead. He acts and looks perfectly normal (other than the laying on his side thing) , and none of the others do this. Is he sick?

cindy
03-28-2006, 08:37 AM
Cindy, I found a good site with a vet that does betta questions.

http://www.ask-the-vet.com/betta-fish-care.htm

I just read some of the questions and he's good.

saltiery
03-28-2006, 08:45 AM
they don't have a very long life-span... How old is it?

CarolinaGirl
03-28-2006, 08:46 AM
they don't have a very long life-span... How old is it?

About 5 months or so.

JPR
03-28-2006, 08:50 AM
Carolina, there are four possibilities:

1) your fish is sick

2) your fish is old

3) your fish is cold!

4) water quality is off

And ironically, it can be all four! The cold, ammonia and age brings on sickness!

so we can only deal with what we can get at first- raise the temperature! 82 F would be good. But before any treatment can occur you need to give a history--

what is the fish kept in?
how big is the fish and how long have you had him?
what is the water temperature?
how is the water filtered, if at all?
How often do you do water changes and do you have chlorine in your source water?
what do you feed?

This should get us started.

JR

JPR
03-28-2006, 08:58 AM
Good Lord! I just went to that vet site Cindy! It seems more bettas are tortured to death than baby koi, if that is possible?!!
A little disappointed in the advise from the vet, however. In all cases , he appears like he knows his stuff, but he never addresses any of the root causes of these problems directly. The advise he is providing is medically correct but given the environment and care that got these fish to these maladies, there is no real hope that they will respond to any of those treatments. So its kinda like going through the motions and being academically and 'politically' correct but never really helping the patient! Crazy. Begin at the beginning. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of 'attempted' cure. JR

CarolinaGirl
03-28-2006, 09:01 AM
1. what is the fish kept in?
2. how big is the fish and how long have you had him?
3. what is the water temperature?
4. how is the water filtered, if at all?
5. How often do you do water changes and do you have chlorine in your source water?
6. what do you feed?

Thanks JPR

1. the fish is in one of those 1 gallon betta tanks with an under gravel filter and no filter.
2. He is not very big....I got him about 6 weeks ago and he was an import. 5 to 6 months old or so? Picture of him when I got him is attached.
3. Water temp...I don't know, but my unheated koi tank stays around 70°. It is 100 gallons though, so I am sure the little tank changes temps more throughout the day. Nighttime temps are cooler than day-time temps.
4. filtered with a UG filter.
5. water changes usually once a week, sometimes once every 2 weeks. Well water with low pH and no chlorine
6. I forget the brand name but it is a food formulated for bettas. I forget the brand name right now, but it is pale colored teeny little round pellets.

I have two crowntails that came in the same group sharing a 1 gallon tank (with a divider) . Their tank sits right next to his. Also have another halfmoon who is in a 1/2 gallon container. All these others are getting the same food, water and temps and act normal. Maybe he is more sensitive?

JPR
03-28-2006, 09:18 AM
Ok , so I think we can rule out some things and zero in on others.

The water volume is fine, but realize that the water temperature will easily swing with room temperature being such a small volume.
Your probably right, being an imported fish, they are mostly very young 3.5 to 6 months. But if the fins are VERY large then it will be an old breeder- but we'll assume that this is a young fish.
A few suggestions:

1) you can buy a vert small aquarium heating pad ( I think Dr foster's catalogue sells them or maybe it was That fish place?) it is only the size of a match book but it will heat a gallon of water. More importantly, it will keep the water stable in temperature at night. Honestly, I would like to see you invest in a 2 1/2 gallon aquarium and a tiny heater. The you could also buy a very small re-circulation filter ( several brands, let me know if you want to go this way and I'll give you some brands)

The weekly water change is OK but really you want to do two a week. like with koi, a complete water change 'may' not always be the very best thing as the parameters of old and new water will be SO different, they will wear a fish down over time. On teh other hand, if you wait too long between changes the old water NEEDS to all go as it is too funky to save any of it! The proverbial 'rock and a hard spot'. So do more frequent partial water changes or weekly water changes using conditioned water.
conditioned water would be water you put in a bucket, filtered with carbon and heated for a few days. I know it sounds like a pain, but once you get it set up and tucked away somewhere, it will be an easy go to source any time you want to do a 100% water change.
I would buy some frozen blood worms. Hikari makes the best- a smaller worm and relished by bettas.
Understand that many of these Thai breeders force grow their fry at 90 F . They can adapt to cooler water but it takes time. To import then, and put them in 70 F water straight away is very hard on them and many sulk for a long time or never quite get with the new program. So when in Rome----
Keep'em warm at least until they have a chance to acclimate to new water, food, routines and surroundings and then you can gradually lower temps from say 82 F down to 74 F. I keep all my bettas at 78-79 F.
JR

JPR
03-28-2006, 09:19 AM
Just saw the picture- very handsome guy! and he doesn't look sick at all. JR

CarolinaGirl
03-28-2006, 09:25 AM
Just saw the picture- very handsome guy! and he doesn't look sick at all. JR

That picture was taken before he started this odd behavior. His color is actually much prettier now.


OK, Thanks! I'll do as you suggest. What if I were to get a 10 gallon tank and put 3 plexiglass dividers in it with lots of slots or holes cut into it. This would create four 2.5 gallon spaces. then I could put a small filter at one end, and a small heater and the filter return at the other end. I am thinking that the filter would pull the heated and filtered water thru the dividers and keep all the water clean and heated. What do you think? I am pretty sure I already have the plexiglass, tank, filter and heater.

JPR
03-28-2006, 09:32 AM
You could try that but the devil is in the details. Its tricky to get an even water flow to all teh compartments. Over the years, I had at least 6 variations on that idea and here are some the pitfalls to avoid--

Make sure the fit is tight as they have a real gift at being able to sweeze through the slightest opening where panel meets glass.

The chamber with the heater will tend to warm and the last chamber, furthest away, can be several degrees cooler. You will actually see differences in the way fish behave and how active they are based on this.

Depending on filter type, one chamber will be a swirling turmoil and the last one in the series will be dead still. A spray bar return will help here , as will returning the water to the far chamber and having it work its way back through the drill holes in the plexi dividers.
JR

CarolinaGirl
03-28-2006, 09:36 AM
Thank you JR. I will start putting a tank together for them tonite and see how it goes. I think if I make cuts in the plastic rail at the top of the tank I can slide the plexiglass in the slots to hold it at the top. Gravel can hold it at the bottom. I think I may use a Whisper power filter and add an extention to the suction tube, running it to the far end of the tank so the water draws from there. I'll get some better food for them too. I apreciate your help!

emmalou
03-28-2006, 09:52 AM
You could try that but the devil is in the details. Its tricky to get an even water flow to all teh compartments. Over the years, I had at least 6 variations on that idea and here are some the pitfalls to avoid--

Make sure the fit is tight as they have a real gift at being able to sweeze through the slightest opening where panel meets glass.
The chamber with the heater will tend to warm and the last chamber, furthest away, can be several degrees cooler. You will actually see differences in the way fish behave and how active they are based on this.

Depending on filter type, one chamber will be a swirling turmoil and the last one in the series will be dead still. A spray bar return will help here , as will returning the water to the far chamber and having it work its way back through the drill holes in the plexi dividers.
JR
Lol.ain't that the truth! I have finally fortified the glass panel in one of my tanks.if they can get inbetween a space.it is guaranteed they will :rolleyes:

Cindy.cold is the enemy for these guys......they get lethargic real quick when the temp falls...mine are all heated now.gee..that didn't cost much :rofl: Hope your guy stops playing dead :eek:

CarolinaGirl
03-28-2006, 10:01 AM
Lol.ain't that the truth! I have finally fortified the glass panel in one of my tanks.if they can get inbetween a space.it is guaranteed they will :rolleyes:

Cindy.cold is the enemy for these guys......they get lethargic real quick when the temp falls...mine are all heated now.gee..that didn't cost much :rofl: Hope your guy stops playing dead :eek:

I am betting it is the cold. Maybe he is more sensitive to it than the others. At any rate....I'll heat them all up and see if that helps. :yes:

emmalou
03-28-2006, 10:02 AM
I am betting it is the cold. Maybe he is more sensitive to it than the others. At any rate....I'll heat them all up and see if that helps. :yes:
If it is the cold you will see an IMMEDIATE change in the fish.......they get frisky :D:

koidoc
03-28-2006, 11:12 AM
I am with you Jim.
Get a $9 2 1/2 gal tank, a $16 petsmart Neptune 25 watt heater. Warm up a little to make more active. Put frozen food in diet 1x/day. Put a fish next to him that can see and spruce him up a little. Now mine lay at night and sonetimes in the day for a few minutes at a time. They do rest. This is where broadleaf plants are good to rest in mid -water.
I am not thrilled with undergravel with betta. I am even starting to rethink gravel at all. Uneaten food is pulled down. Have to use my mini gravel washer. Will leave new system empty except for plant. Jim mine like the plastic, small leaf plants alright as long as leaf is not stiff ot prickly

emmalou
03-28-2006, 11:38 AM
I am with you Jim.
Get a $9 2 1/2 gal tank, a $16 petsmart Neptune 25 watt heater. Warm up a little to make more active. Put frozen food in diet 1x/day. Put a fish next to him that can see and spruce him up a little. Now mine lay at night and sonetimes in the day for a few minutes at a time. They do rest. This is where broadleaf plants are good to rest in mid -water.
I am not thrilled with undergravel with betta. I am even starting to rethink gravel at all. Uneaten food is pulled down. Have to use my mini gravel washer. Will leave new system empty except for plant. Jim mine like the plastic, small leaf plants alright as long as leaf is not stiff ot prickly



I have two males on this kind of tank Art.with an undergravel filter(albeit small) and truthfully.if I didn't know that fish had to have water changes.I wouldn't change this tank at all! It is always clear, the fish is very alert and on the move.....I think this will be a good thing for me.we shall see.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/emmaloudawg/ugf.jpg