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Sonny
12-02-2005, 09:35 PM
Some recent posts have me wondering about goldfish and whether they can compete with koi in a hobbyist's pond. My pond is relatively small... 1400 gallons. It has a pretty good filtration system and may be able to support a few koi. But I have been reluctant to take that step even though I really like the way a nice koi pond looks. I currently have comets, sarassas and shubunkins. Some of them have a nice pattern to them... almost koi-like. :yes:

I was wondering... do you all think it is possible for a pond with only goldfish to compete, aesthetically, with a nice koi pond?

Given the same good, quality conditions can goldfish become impressive specimens like koi?

cindy
12-02-2005, 09:40 PM
Have you seen the Wakins? Beautiful. http://www.wakinworks.com/info.htm

CarolinaGirl
12-02-2005, 10:48 PM
Fancy goldfish can't compete for food as well among koi, but a pond with just fancies is very nice! Sarassas, shubunkins and wakins would do just fine with koi .

savannahrobinson
12-02-2005, 10:49 PM
Depends on the size of the pond. I think I would rather see goldfish in a small pond.
:yes:

Sonny
12-02-2005, 10:50 PM
Cindy,

Yes, I have seen Wakin... have wanted some for a few years. I just got six of them a few weeks back and they are settling in. Not in the big pond yet though. :no:

They are really cool looking fish. The website (http://www.wakinworks.com/info.htm) you posted talks about the "peduncle flash". It is true, they really do have sparkly peduncles. :yes:

Sonny
12-02-2005, 10:52 PM
Savannah,

I think you are right... scale has a lot to do with it. Two koi in a small pond would not look as nice as twelve goldfish.

Blammo
12-02-2005, 11:01 PM
Cindy,

Yes, I have seen Wakin... have wanted some for a few years. I just got six of them a few weeks back and they are settling in. Not in the big pond yet though. :no:

They are really cool looking fish. The website (http://www.wakinworks.com/info.htm) you posted talks about the "peduncle flash". It is true, they really do have sparkly peduncles. :yes: I've heard of them before..

Blammo
12-02-2005, 11:03 PM
Like those ?

boggen
12-02-2005, 11:31 PM
its taken me many years to figure out that there are more varities of goldfish than orange! ((blacks, browns, yellows, oranges, reds, white, etc... ))

never realized multi type of tail fins
never realized about wen's like a red caped oranda (look like tummor on there head)
many body styles. from racers, to fat pigglets. to wide bodys to tall body shapes.

Blammo
12-02-2005, 11:35 PM
it is nearly as bad azzz koi are...............:rolleyes:

Valarc
12-02-2005, 11:39 PM
I think it's all a matter of what aesthetics you prefer - koi are big and imposing, graceful but powerful. Goldfish aren't as imposing, but can be beautiful in different ways. With koi, you can have vast variety in the coloration, but body types are relatively close together, except in the eyes of an expert. Goldfish, on the other hand, have a lot of variety in body shape AND colors, so can give you a variation in "texture" as well as color. If you're solely considering the appearance of the pond, also realize that koi might be pretty destructive to plants, whereas goldfish aren't as bad - so if you want some nice lillies and lotus, goldfish might be a better choice.

I don't think they really "compete" in terms as looks, any more than a painting competes with a sculpture. Personally, when I sell this POS townhome and move into a place with some land, I plan to have several ponds, including one fulla blammo wakins :D:

Meg
12-03-2005, 12:22 AM
Hi Sonny
I have a small 450 gal pond with goldies
there are some pretty impressive ones out there :yes: you think of them as little things in a fish bowl but the first one here fills my hand and then some and always get oooo's and awwws :yes:
Mr. Magoo is about 6 inches (2 when I gor him) he just sparkles and has a great split tail

Koihuggr
12-03-2005, 12:30 AM
Having combined Koi and goldfish, I find the goldfish fry (I think) are overtaking the pond - like, 75 fry. I want to get rid of the goldfish because I will be walking over the pond on them next year. 8 Koi plus 10 goldfish = almost 75-100 goldfish fry. Think about that. Goldfish are beautiful, and I have every form of goldfish from Sarassa to Black Moor inside. Love them. The fry in the pond are overwhelming to the point of scary.

Koihuggr
12-03-2005, 12:34 AM
Mr. Magoo is about 6 inches (2 when I gor him) he just sparkles and has a great split tail[/QUOTE]

Mr Magoo appears to be a Celestial - my FAVORITE. Mine is named Headlights. Can't wait to get another named Tail-lights. ET phone home!

Karen
12-03-2005, 12:41 AM
Having combined Koi and goldfish, I find the goldfish fry (I think) are overtaking the pond [...] The fry in the pond are overwhelming to the point of scary.

Yup. Goldfish are incredible breeding machines. They're like parasites. I love them too- though I think they cause a lot of problems when combined with koi. Not that they want to do what they do, it just happens.

Better to keep em separated, IMHO.

Meg
12-03-2005, 12:56 AM
Mr. Magoo is about 6 inches (2 when I gor him) he just sparkles and has a great split tail

Mr Magoo appears to be a Celestial - my FAVORITE. Mine is named Headlights. Can't wait to get another named Tail-lights. ET phone home![/QUOTE]
:yes: I've got another,Sally Magoo, who is about 3 inches and yellow.
and I've just gotten one (tiny baby) white with orange head and tail, but I cann't find him :confused: being winter I hope he's just hiding!
my favorite too! always looking up at you they are just too cool in the pond!

Valarc
12-03-2005, 12:57 AM
I'm sorry, but celestials just plain gross me out :sick:

Almost as bad as those bubble eyes *shudder*

Meg
12-03-2005, 01:02 AM
I'm sorry, but celestials just plain gross me out :sick:

Almost as bad as those bubble eyes *shudder*
ewww, the bubble eyes look like they will tear sooo easily :sick:
but have you really looked at a celestial in a pond? they have a great shape and nice tail. the whole body sparkles and their eyes look like Mr. Magoo glasses (the cartoon, remember, or am I that old?) and they are always looking up at you :D:

Valarc
12-03-2005, 01:05 AM
and they are always looking up at you :D:

That's what creeps me out about them. Eyes don't belong on the top of your head.

Meg
12-03-2005, 01:15 AM
That's what creeps me out about them. Eyes don't belong on the top of your head.
you are funny :D:

gOOse
12-03-2005, 02:11 AM
:lol: :lol: :lol: Whats funny is Mr. magoo :lol: :lol: :lol:
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3905/mrmagoosml5wv.jpg

I remember the cartoon too. :rolleyes:

He is so funny lookin, :D:

Cowiche Ponder
12-03-2005, 03:26 AM
Like those ?

Yes I like them... what does it cost to ship them to the farthest end of the continent? :rolleyes:

Sonny
12-03-2005, 08:30 AM
I have a small 450 gal pond with goldies
there are some pretty impressive ones out there you think of them as little things in a fish bowl but the first one here fills my hand and then some and always get oooo's and awwws
Mr. Magoo is about 6 inches (2 when I gor him) he just sparkles and has a great split tail
Meg, your goldfish are very pretty! I really like your celestial eye fish. Do all celestial eyes sparkle like that?

Sonny
12-03-2005, 08:47 AM
Blammo,

Your Wakin are very nice looking. Do you breed them, import them, or both?

I think I read on another thread that you also have some pond comets for sale. Can you post pictures of them?

I have been trying to keep my main pond restricted to Sarassas and Shubukins since their body shapes are the most similar to koi. I wanted to try and find Sarassas that look like Kohaku (is that the right term) and, more of a stretch, Shubukins that look like Showa. So far I have had some trouble finding fish that are good imitations though.

Here's my favorite Sarassa (sorry for the quality, it's hard to take pictures of fish). He's about 11-12 inches long.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/jclaffy/Sarassa1.jpg

And here's my favorite Shubukin. He's about 12-13 inches long.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/jclaffy/BigDaddy.jpg

Meg
12-04-2005, 12:51 AM
Meg, your goldfish are very pretty! I really like your celestial eye fish. Do all celestial eyes sparkle like that?
the ones I have seen do, but I don't know if they all do :confused:

LeeFamilyKoi
12-04-2005, 10:25 PM
Goldfish Rock!...There are many out there that are really great with koi..and do well...

BarbJ
01-18-2006, 01:03 PM
I guess fancy goldfish would have a hard time competing with koi, but in my pond it's the other way around.

I've got about 50 comets and sarasas in with 3 koi in a 1200 gal pond. When it comes feeding time the CV go into a major feeding frenzy and the koi just hang out at the edge and wait. They don't even bother trying to compete with all those GF. Then when the GF are done the koi swim up for their food. I usually toss them some extra food after the GF are pretty much done.

But I think it's the numbers of GF. If there were many more koi and fewer GF I think then the GF would lose out.

I plan to separate them also when I build a proper koi pond.

Koihuggr
01-24-2006, 11:59 PM
I'm a little nervous about what I'll find this spring because my goldfish are breeding like maniacs. Have 6-8 Koi in the pond, but the goldfish were there for a year before and are so hardy they are reproducing like crazy. I keep catching babies and raising or giving them away. Put an ad in the paper and had people standing in my pond for hours trying to catch the goldfish (some are 8" long). I'll probably have 100's of goldfish fry this summer and may have to drain the pond to catch them. I guess I'd recommend deciding what type fish you want before putting them in a pond :)

madeyna
01-28-2006, 04:01 PM
I have a shabunkin that has the bodie of a watkin only has a much longer tail. His white red and black are very intense. His black has intense red at the edges and her has no speckles , they are large color spots instead . He out does every koi in the pond in the flashy looks department because of his intense color and long striped fins. He really is prettier than the showa I have.

the duck
02-09-2006, 06:04 PM
A little late responding to this post but will anyways. I have comets, shubunkins and wakins. They spawned last year for the first time but only one baby survived. I think they ate all the rest as fast as they were spawned or the skimmer got them??? Maybe when fish are spawning don't feed them and that will help control the population?
Jim--how old is your 12" shubunkin? Mine are 3 years old and the biggest is only 9". Two of my shubunkins are half blue with orange heads and black tails--so for color that's pretty cool!

Sonny
02-09-2006, 06:48 PM
Jim--how old is your 12" shubunkin? Mine are 3 years old and the biggest is only 9". Two of my shubunkins are half blue with orange heads and black tails--so for color that's pretty cool!
Duck,

Mine are going on 4 years old. They've grown so much I think my pond is too crowded now. I want to find a good home for some of them.

Your Shubukins sound really neat looking. Can you post some picks?

Meg
02-09-2006, 09:00 PM
I have a shabunkin that has the bodie of a watkin only has a much longer tail. His white red and black are very intense. His black has intense red at the edges and her has no speckles , they are large color spots instead . He out does every koi in the pond in the flashy looks department because of his intense color and long striped fins. He really is prettier than the showa I have.
:confused: picture :confused:
you know now we gotta see it :D: :yes: please ;)

the duck
02-09-2006, 10:23 PM
Hi Jim. Will try to take some pics. Fish are indoors right now and not alot of light where there winter home is. The two blue shubunkins are quite shy and a pain to catch in the fall as harder to see in the pond.
Are your fish outdoors all year long????
Indoor goldies I've had the best luck with are ryunkin (spelling). Fantails seem prone to swim bladder and every black moor I've tried has died. Pearlscales are nice but the dealer I got my wakins from they are just too pricey ($200 apiece if I remember correctly). We have a couple of lionheads and they do well but red capped oranda died. I have too many fancies now anyways and don't want a bigger tank. But for those who are interested we've had the best luck with the ryunkins.

Sonny
02-09-2006, 10:34 PM
Are your fish outdoors all year long????
Yes, so far all my fish have lived outside. I am setting up an aquarium inside to handle the more "delicate" fish during the Summer. I'm afraid the temps would get too high for some of the deeper bodied fish. But I'm also trying to set up more outdoor environments for my fish.

Meg
02-09-2006, 10:45 PM
Yes, so far all my fish have lived outside. I am setting up an aquarium inside to handle the more "delicate" fish during the Summer. I'm afraid the temps would get too high for some of the deeper bodied fish. But I'm also trying to set up more outdoor environments for my fish.
Mine have all done well outside. but the pond is 1/2 shaded and full of lilies for shade over the rest of the pond. this seem to keep them cool down during august :sick: I had no heat related fatalities :no:
the only one who seems effected by weather at all is my red cap oranda, you can just tell she HATES the cold....but then so do I

DarleneD
02-09-2006, 11:30 PM
Mine are (knock on wood) doing well out in the pond. I heat the water to 70 degrees. They didn't do well at all when it got down to 62.

I haven't seen one variety more prone than another to swim bladder. There are several factors that can cause it, and certainly the shape of almost all fancy goldfish can contribute.