Understanding the Koi Herpes Virus

[fishNpond]

The virus becomes most active at temperatures of 69 to 81 degrees. While the mortality rates in koi exposed to KHV were higher at these temperatures the effects of KHV were also seen in temperatures as low as 53 degrees. Heating/increasing the temperature to 88 degrees can make the virus dormant; However the length of dormancy is yet unknown, as is the conditions which will reactive the virus. We had read that this will eradicate the virus and it shouldn’t return. We decided we had nothing to loose so we tested this theory. In our test the virus remained dormant for 1 ½ months before the mortalities reoccurred.

KHV is believed to remain in the infected fish for life, so whether the koi is exposed or in remission it should be considered a potential carrier of the virus. Studies have shown that some survivors were later found to be carriers, describing them as becoming”persistently infected with the
Virus” They carry the potential to shed the virus, and infect other koi.

Exposure to infected koi: Once exposed incubation time is 7 to 14 days, after which symptoms may appear. Death usually occurs within 1-14 days after symptoms arise. Some would show external signs…like physical ailments (ulcers, fin and tail rot, irritation to the scales, deformed head, sunken eyes) while others showed no external problems. Our experience showed that not all koi shared the same symptoms.

The first indication of a problem was behavioral. Our Koi became solitaire and isolated themselves from the herd. Some would swim with their heads down. Their actions can be described as Lethargic; pectoral fins were sometimes were tucked in. They were usually seen sitting on the bottom of the tank motionless while yet others would tend to hang out in areas with more aeration. We noticed an increase in activity (swimming into the current) a day or two before death. Others swam lethargically or erratically near the surface as if trying to catch their bearings.

[fishNpond]

Here is a great example of a koi showing no immediate signs. We recently noticed our 12” Long fin Shusui isolating himself from the others. First glance he showed no physical ailments and appeared to be normal

[fishNpond]

The next day he was swimming erratically near the surface. Two days later it had died. A closer look showed deformities in his cerebral region.
After we did an necropsy we discovered his gills had badly deteriorated

[fishNpond]

The Koi Herpes Virus is known to attack the epithelial cells, especially targeting the skin and gills. There are some instances where the virus was masked due to secondary bacterial and parasitic infections. In our situation all the scrapings came up negative…no parasitic activity was observed.

In an effort to show the effects KHV has on the unsuspecting koi I’ve assembled a series of events which occurred at our facility.

We will start with our Kohaku. The scales began to lift and it appeared as if they had been scalded or raised. They took on a white appearance and felt dry or rough to the touch. Slime coat appears to be missing.

[fishNpond]

Days Later scales are so sensitive they rub off or fall off easily

[fishNpond]

This next koi was placed in the infected tank, and within 1 week showed deterioration of the scales and fins. In 10 days the koi died. Keep in mind he looked fine before we subjected him to the KHV tank. This koi had been exposed to the other koi before putting him back into this tank.

[fishNpond]

The fins and tail show redness and deterioration as seen on this Goshiki. The koi dies within days.

[fishNpond]

On some, redness appears around the mouth

[fishNpond]

Unfortunately this Goshiki experienced excessive mucus shedding, dry/rough feeling skin and dead gill cells

[fishNpond]

Around February 10th we had placed a koi with healed nose rot back into the general population in the domestic tank. This koi was in the medical tank with the Goshiki at one time. It had started Isolating itself from the herd so we placed it in the show tank with the other sick koi. At that time we had no idea the deaths that had occurred were due to KHV.

Seven days later we observed our 3 year old male Sanke isolating itself from the herd.

[fishNpond]

A few days later we noticed its tail turning red, and looked infected. Scrapings came up negative again.

[fishNpond]

The Virus had also attacked the skin of the fish. Notice the blood vessels emerging under the scales giving papa koi a reddish tint to his body. On the 10th day papa koi died. A closer look showed he also had gill necrosis

[fishNpond]

On Scale less Koi ulcers may appear as seen on this Shusui. On other scale less koi the skin appeared as raised veins. These ulcers appeared 4 days after being exposed to the infected koi

[fishNpond]

After the Hi Utsuri died we examined the gill region. On every case there was gill damage to varying degrees which would account for the actions exhibited by the koi before it died. Hanging around the aerator or trying to remain in the current from the pumps. Notice the mucus and the deadened areas?

[fishNpond]

At the time of death not all koi displayed the same external signs. We noticed the eyes on some were sunken in

[fishNpond]

Others; the head appeared deformed between mouth and forehead.

[fishNpond]

The beginning symptoms were first noticed on February 7, 2006 when we had raised the temperature of the tank to 73 degrees.

Within 1 week we lost 16 out of 21 koi.

The 5 remaining survivors were placed in a separate holding tank. Dr. Helen Roberts provided outstanding assistance while we went through this process. She took samples from the dead koi with suspected KHV infection. Gills, kidney, and spleen were removed and sent to the University of Georgia. There they would conduct a PCR test to determine if the koi had died from KHV.

[fishNpond]

One ironic thing to note: there were no signs of parasites. Scrapings on the 3 koi had been conducted and water samples tested all showed negative.

Our thanks go to Dr Helen Roberts for having the knowledge to direct us and guide us through this process.

To date there is no known cure for KHV, nor is there an immunization to prevent it from occurring.

If you’re buying koi from multiple suppliers, then you should have separate quarantine systems set up.

If your koi contract KHV you really only have 2 options….
1: Depopulate. Euthanize all remaining koi. Sterilize everything, pond filters, pumps, nets, buckets with bleach. repeat the process.....
2: create a KHV pond and wait

[Bonnie-IN]

I posted this on the main forum but so far have no replies.

"Do I understand that even if one does the necessary steps to QT and heat to mid 70's, that it's possible that the virus might still lay dormant??"

[fishNpond]

This whole adventure has been a burden on Lin and I. We've edured more than I would wish on anyone. For those who think we were fools for keeping the infected koi so long....well we did it for you. Not many know about the virus, and even more have never seen it's damaging effects.

ALthought it's true there is no cure, you can be sure one will emerge. Until then take every precaution with your precious koi and they will bring you years of delight and pleasure.

Sincerely,

Walt and Lin

[Brian Drake]

Appreciate all the work you have done....thanks.

[savannahrobinson]

Darn. :(

What a heartbreak. :no:

Great photo series. You ought to do a talk for some of the shows/seminars. This kind of documentation with veterinary verification is rare - and much needed.

Bonnie -
read ALL of the KHV threads. The answer to your question seems to be "yes".

[fishNpond]

I posted this on the main forum but so far have no replies.

"Do I understand that even if one does the necessary steps to QT and heat to mid 70's, that it's possible that the virus might still lay dormant??"


yes it is possible. My vet quarantines her koi for a year. Now I understand why. unfortunately being a herpes virus once the koi makes it through the infection the virus goes dormant and re-emerges at a later time.

[Bonnie-IN]

Bonnie -
read ALL of the KHV threads. The answer to your question seems to be "yes".

Wow, until now I thought that going thru all the proper procedures of QT would keep KHV out of my pond! :(

[fishNpond]

Reactivation of koi herpesvirus infections in common carp Cyprinus carpio
S. St-Hilaire1, 2,*, N. Beevers1, K. Way1, R. M. Le Deuff1, P. Martin1, C. Joiner1

The temperature range used in this study is similar to that observed in fisheries in the UK, and might explain the apparent increase in KHV cases in
the summer months. It is unlikely that a mortality rate of 3%, as was observed at 12°C, would be detected in a large fishery, so exposure to KHV could potentially go undetected until there is an increase in the water
temperature.

In Israel, mortality events have been reported to increase with regularity when the temperatures reach between 22 and 26°C in spring and
autumn (Perelberg et al. 2003). The findings of this study indicate that reactivation of KHV can occur in fish populations that have never
experienced elevated mortality associated with the virus, and that it may occur long after initial exposure to the virus (up to 30 wk).

As some fish exposed to KHV appear to become persistently infected with the virus and, under some circumstances, can shed virus again,
controlling the spread of KHV requires identification of fish populations that have been exposed to the virus. Detecting these populations may be problematic with the current tools available (Gilad et al. 2002). Future
research should focus on methods to identify these populations.

[savannahrobinson]

Wow, until now I thought that going thru all the proper procedures of QT would keep KHV out of my pond! :(

Sorry - but it DOES increase the chances that you will keep it out.

This is not an easy topic to learn. I wasn't being ugly when I suggested you re-read all the threads.
There is a lot of information and mis-information, or confusing information.
This thread, which has clear photos, progress, and veterinary verification, is one of very few.

You gotta read everything and then make up your own mind. Because noone really REALLY knows.

Me, I tend to err on the side of believing the people who have actual experience with the disease. Roark, for one.
This isn't a topic for armchair quarterbacks.

[auntiesue]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SHARING YOUR JOURNEY THROUGH THIS!! You are so right, you've been through a lot. Sharing the experience only helps the rest of us!! One thing I did notice is that most of the symptons you mentioned and pictures could be caused by most anything!! That is what struck me right away. The common denominator seems to be the gill damage and even that could be afew other things. The only way to know is to have the fish tested. It's certainly cheap enough to do.

Would you please post exactly how a sample is sent in, where it is set (address) and any other details that might be of help if someone were to want to have a fish tested. Maybe that information should become a "sticky" or included in Karl's emergency thread.

[imSoKoi]

The fact that it does look like so many other things, or is even symptom-less, makes it hard to detect until it has done huge damage. We dont always want to be an alarmist about things, but i think its good to react quickly to any possiblity of it. The swab tests are very valuable as a quick test. Maybe not 100% in all cases, but they are pretty accurate if its active

[fishNpond]

One thing I did notice is that most of the symptons you mentioned and pictures could be caused by most anything!! That is what struck me right away. The common denominator seems to be the gill damage and even that could be afew other things. The only way to know is to have the fish tested. It's certainly cheap enough to do.

Would you please post exactly how a sample is sent in, where it is set (address) and any other details that might be of help if someone were to want to have a fish tested. Maybe that information should become a "sticky" or included in Karl's emergency thread.

one tech report mentioned how the symptoms I posted mask the actual virus. We originallly took our Koi into Dr. Roberts office for ulcers. that was on a wednesday, saturday they started dying. She thought by the third death this may be a case of KHV, but until we got the results back it couldn't be confirmed as conclusive.

You are right in you conclusion....Gill damage was apparant on every koi, but to varying degrees.... some showed little gill necrosis while others you had to look between layers to see it.

I plan on making anothter post this weekend on testing for khv.
I'm exhausted after this one.

[moikoi]

it makes me think twice about buying more kois. :( even if you QT for a yr,still not 100% safe. SCARY !!!

[Ruth]

Very good thread and I appreciate your sharing.

[koi kichi]

I purchased koi at the same time you did. I am now concerned, but the koi all seem fine and have been in temps above 70 since I got them. I always QT no less than 8 weeks and usually more. Do you think we might know the vender by the next month?I had planned on putting them in the pond on May 18.

[fishNpond]

it makes me think twice about buying more kois. :( even if you QT for a yr,still not 100% safe. SCARY !!!


IN post #25, I posted the findings of a study which concluded in 2005. In that study they experimented with water temperature fluxuations. This is what they found about the virus returning

"it may occur long after initial exposure to the virus (up to 30 wk)"

[Charles Pearson]

More education than I really wanted at 6:00 am. (I'am on my third read) But we all need it! Sorry bout your enormous loss. :( This too will be one of those threads we can't stay away from...Thank you for your time and sharing.

This certainly is cutting edge, thanks for making it a sticky.

[auntiesue]

it makes me think twice about buying more kois. :( even if you QT for a yr,still not 100% safe. SCARY !!!

You reduce your chances of exposure if you purchase from a dealer where you know where he gets his fish. I mean you really know where he gets his fish. Limit your source to one or two trusted dealers. Be sure you know what his Q-tank procedure is. You don't combine new fish in Q-tank and heat cycle as suggested. I'm not saying you'll escape this entirely, but your risk factor really drops if you take certain precautions. I know this is real scarey, but for now, it is something the hobby is dealing with. We choose to be part of that hobby so we need to support all efforts being made to deal with this virus.

[Simi Koi]

It seems most of the symptoms are very similar to bacterial infections. how does one tell the difference?

[kdmatrix]

It seems most of the symptoms are very similar to bacterial infections. how does one tell the difference?
Very good question!

[moikoi]

It seems most of the symptoms are very similar to bacterial infections. how does one tell the difference?

after reading this thread....from now on every time my koi gets sick,i think he/she has KHV. :(

[fishNpond]

It seems most of the symptoms are very similar to bacterial infections. how does one tell the difference?

Follow normal troubleshooting procedures. look at the symptoms, carefully examine the koi's behavior, scrape and scope, and examine the gills, quarantine the fish. If you have a bunch of sick fish, then start asking questions... especially if they start dropping like flies. In every instance of KHV there was Gill Necrosis to varying degrees acompianied by high mortality.

When in doubt...find a professional. better to do it right then flounder about.

I visited my vet, Dr. Roberts today to see her pond. We talked about her quarantine practices of one year. The reason she keeps them in a seperate pond for a year is so the koi experiences all 4 seasonal changes. The basis behind it is if there is any KHV hopefully one of the seasonal changes will trigger it.

I realize not everyone has that luxury of having a seperate pond. auntiesue had some good advice. "Be sure you know what his Q-tank procedure is. You don't combine new fish in Q-tank and heat cycle as suggested"

[savannahrobinson]

It seems most of the symptoms are very similar to bacterial infections. how does one tell the difference?

I have not had an infection in my fish. But I've read a LOT about it.
1) Have all the fish had nasty, snotty gills?
A bacterial gill infection (which I have had and treated) doesn't affect ALL the fish in the pond.
Gill flukes (which I have had and treated) don't produce that snotty look until very VERY late in the disease.

2) Have ALL the fish been affected?
KHV kills 80-90 percent of the fish in a pond. Fast.

3) Have ALL the fish died very quickly?
Between onset and death in KHV is 4 to 7 days.

[Da Whip]

I have not had an infection in my fish. But I've read a LOT about it.
1) Have all the fish had nasty, snotty gills?
A bacterial gill infection (which I have had and treated) doesn't affect ALL the fish in the pond.
Gill flukes (which I have had and treated) don't produce that snotty look until very VERY late in the disease.

2) Have ALL the fish been affected?
KHV kills 80-90 percent of the fish in a pond. Fast.

3) Have ALL the fish died very quickly?
Between onset and death in KHV is 4 to 7 days.
I'll post my findings in a few days.
I'm working with a REAL doctor.. Andy Goodwin.
My buddy lost 1,000 plus koi due to greed and buying chit from China.
16 days and counting.
Some of these fish were my very best, sold to him.

Oh.
Legzzzz
Red or Fred ?
You know who I beezzzzzzzz.
;)

[CarolinaGirl]

Walt and Lin, I am so sorry you are going through this. thanks for taking the time to educate us about this horrible disease. Hugs to you both. :(

[moikoi]

I'll post my findings in a few days.
I'm working with a REAL doctor.. Andy Goodwin.

My buddy lost 1,000 plus koi due to greed and buying chit from China.
16 days and counting.
Some of these fish were my very best, sold to him.

Oh.
Legzzzz
Red or Fred ?
You know who I beezzzzzzzz.
;)

i wouldn't buy any fish from China. i don't trust them :no: and i'm chinese.

[tnovak]

Thank you so much for posting so much info on this disease....it's scary that it mimicks so many other problems. A heartbreaking ordeal for you, but you're educating so many people by sharing your tragedy. Thank you.

[sallyboy]

Walt and Lin,
Great post. Thanks

[cindy]

Amazing pictures. Sorry that you had to experience it but the pictures are a wonderful learning tool for the rest of us. Thanks for being unselfish and sharing.

[auntiesue]

Hey, I get occassional emails from Doc Johnson - signed up some years ago and just never quit getting them. Got an email from his site the other day saying they may have a "cure". Anyone hear anything about this? I'll try to find the email tonight and copy it here.

[lilhelper]

Why doesnt just everyone not purchase koi until a cure is found? The koi you have now are most likely not infected. Just hold out on koi purchasing for a while, or just purchase from someone that is reputable.

[Graham]

Here Sue....


Dear Graham
Greetings from Dr. Johnson
We (at University of Georgia) seem to have stumbled onto a verifiable "cure" for KHV in vitro. I'll have more on that shortly, although I have explained this cure and shown the testing and results in the last four seminars I gave in California, Colorado, and Tennessee. Rather a few of you didn't even know I was in town because your club leadership boycotted the events because I got an Aquascape pond a couple years ago.

Sometimes, all you have to do is think "unlike" certain leaders-politicos and you're "out"

My newest pond, the big Mac Daddy of all ponds (for me), is in operation now....

If'n you're curious, there's a whole website for it, with two picture galleries and all sorts of info on it at a site under development:

http://www.mynewpond.com

Check it out. Thanks for your consideration.

Dr. Johnson

[savannahrobinson]

Here Sue....


Dear Graham
Greetings from Dr. Johnson
We (at University of Georgia) seem to have stumbled onto a verifiable "cure" for KHV in vitro. I'll have more on that shortly, although I have explained this cure and shown the testing and results in the last four seminars I gave in California, Colorado, and Tennessee. Rather a few of you didn't even know I was in town because your club leadership boycotted the events because I got an Aquascape pond a couple years ago.

Sometimes, all you have to do is think "unlike" certain leaders-politicos and you're "out"

My newest pond, the big Mac Daddy of all ponds (for me), is in operation now....

If'n you're curious, there's a whole website for it, with two picture galleries and all sorts of info on it at a site under development:

http://www.mynewpond.com

Check it out. Thanks for your consideration.

Dr. Johnson [/QUOTE]

Didn't Doc J say the same thing some years ago? Just before he wiped out his whole collection?
I dunno - from that source, I'd be really skeptical.

[Simi Koi]

Why doesnt just everyone not purchase koi until a cure is found? The koi you have now are most likely not infected. Just hold out on koi purchasing for a while, or just purchase from someone that is reputable.

its easier to quit smoking crack then to stop buying koi. Just QT, QT, QT. Nothing else you can do.

[lilhelper]

My Mom was on crack for 4 years!

[fishNpond]

I recieved the same e-mail. I looked further and this is what I found...

http://koiclass.com/a_khvcure.html

There is always hope... I hope they can replicate this cure. If so, we can all breath alot easier.

Walt

[auntiesue]

If this works and is confirmed, :eek: :eek: I'll keep my fingers crossed!! I wonder how long it will take before they can say it's a go?

[Eluned]

Sorry to burst the bubble, but I used to work in a chemotherapy drug discovery lab. In vitro results from a single cell line don't mean much. Many, many drugs and combination therapies that are effective in vitro, don't pan out in whole animals.

I don't know how the piscine system works, but in mammals, many drugs are unable to cross the blood-brain barrier. One reason chicken pox/shingles is so difficult to eradicate is because the herpes virus hangs out in the nerves.

I also don't know much about anti-viral drugs, but my understanding is that they are only effective against active viral infections. Unlike a bacteria, virus are not alive. They are DNA or RNA in a protein coat and only replicate inside the host cell.

Since these studies are using existing anti-viral therapies, it seems like testing the agents directly on infected fish would make much more sense.

One of my favorite cartoons is a cage of lab rats in party hats celebrating. In the background of the lab you see a newspaper with the headline "Cancer Cured in Lab Rats". Research needs to be taken in context. I think it is a bit premature to be talking about a "cure" for KHV.

[auntiesue]

Just received from Doc Johnson's server email:

Quote:

Gentle Reader
You may have gotten an email from me heralding the "end" of KHV as we know it. You should understand the reasoning for the email; THEN disregard it.

One of the problems with "non-researchers" (people like me) having adjacency to studies at Universities is a lack of knowledge. This lack of knowledge occurs in two critical areas:

1. Proper and accurate interpretation of any results before they are final.
2. Knowledge of what is confidential or 'sensitive'

Think about it this way; if you put a two-year-old on a bike without training wheels, and that kid makes it to the other researcher ten feet away without wiping out, you can't say that "two year olds can ride bikes".
Well, I take that back - if you're overly enthusiastic, like me, you might. Mea culpa.

The University will not acknowledge or confirm ANY study, result, or activity to you (or anyone else) until said study is "final". Until then, as far as we're concerned, the study does not even exist. So, until further notice, (notification which will come solely from the University itself *IF AT ALL*) - you should be hereby informed that my last email regarding KHV has all the weight and validity of a Unicorn sighting.

If you contact the University, they will say essentially the same thing, without the "unicorn" sense of humor.

Those of you who know me from first-hand-exposure know I am enthusiastic about fish health. I wa-a-a-a-aay "jumped the gun" on this one - and I regret the inconvenience it has caused.

As Spike Cover would gently remind me - try not to be the guy who uses "Ready - Fire - Aim!" - I should listen to that guy much more often.

Thank you

Dr Erik Johnson

[Da Whip]

Forever a moron...
I just dealt with about $250,000 worth of koi, at one of my best friends places, who bought some CHIT.. and got KHV ( confirmed)\
He has $$$$.. He lost some of the best fish I ever grew, to KHV and GREED.(bahhhhhhhgin)

Have we forgotten the dMv, author of Da Bookie, attempted to " place" " cured" fish in private homes ?

I suppose we have..well.. y'all have.

JR and Steve C.
Shall I post The Battle of All Battles ?

[auntiesue]

Forever a moron...
I just dealt with about $250,000 worth of koi, at one of my best friends places, who bought some CHIT.. and got KHV ( confirmed)\
He has $$$$.. He lost some of the best fish I ever grew, to KHV and GREED.(bahhhhhhhgin)

Have we forgotten the dMv, author of Da Bookie, attempted to " place" " cured" fish in private homes ?

I suppose we have..well.. y'all have.

JR and Steve C.
Shall I post The Battle of All Battles ?

:holycrap:

Spring has arrived I guess!! I've never heard of so many outbreaks confirmed before!! :( :( :(

[Sarge]

JR and Steve C.
Shall I post The Battle of All Battles ?
Let's do it! The truth must be heard!

[cindy]

An old thread but excellent pictures

[dragonfly1976]

Excellent information on KHV. I remember when Walt went through this and lost all of his koi he purchased.He went through all of this testing so that it could be documented for all of us to better understand this virus. I believe he also wrote an article on it also with even more info. I’ll try to find it.

[kevin32]

Just curious khv threads are being brought up from 12 years ago. I get accused of trying to slander a dealer that got khv recently. It is good to inform about khv but why 12 years later is getting bumped. We are raising awareness imo and not slandering anyone in particular. Maybe I'm wrong though

[NYkoiman]

Thanks for posting. This was all very insightful

[cindy]

Excellent information on KHV. I remember when Walt went through this and lost all of his koi he purchased.He went through all of this testing so that it could be documented for all of us to better understand this virus. I believe he also wrote an article on it also with even more info. I’ll try to find it.


Just curious khv threads are being brought up from 12 years ago. I get accused of trying to slander a dealer that got khv recently. It is good to inform about khv but why 12 years later is getting bumped. We are raising awareness imo and not slandering anyone in particular. Maybe I'm wrong though

I remember it too.

Kevin, I was looking for pics of a koi with milky colored skin on google and this came up. i met Walt at a seminar right after it happened. Trying to figure out what's happening with a friends fish. Theirs is not a khv fish but the milky skin came up and i started researching some other things and Walts pictures are the best I've seen. Trying to compare pictures to costia. I'm just trying to learn.

KHV is nothing new, I didn't remember Dr. J losing all his fish. He is a vet and It happens to some of the best.

I'm also learning about columnaris and what it looks like on a microscope. I knew nothing about it or how to treat so I've found some great videos so I'll know what to look for, versus Sap. I didnt know columnaris was like moving worms, shy's away from light and is a quick killer.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3l3LGjbng0

[cindy]

https://blueridgekoi.com/2013/03/04/columnaris-diagnosis-treatment-2/


WHAT IS IT?
Columnaris is NOT some exotic new koi disease. However, it can show up occasionally. And when it does, it can cause a lot of damage to your fish in a short amount of time. Unfortunately, it is quite often misdiagnosed.

Columnaris is a bacterial infection caused by the bacteria Flavobacterium Columnare. It has been around since man started culturing fish, and it’s not going anywhere anytime soon. It is present in practically all aquatic systems, and in the fish in those systems. From a home aquarium to a 500 acre catfish farm. No one is immune.

I've never seen it, I would have missed it.

[Marilyn]

I remember it too.

Kevin, I was looking for pics of a koi with milky colored skin on google and this came up. i met Walt at a seminar right after it happened. Trying to figure out what's happening with a friends fish. Theirs is not a khv fish but the milky skin came up and i started researching some other things and Walts pictures are the best I've seen. Trying to compare pictures to costia. I'm just trying to learn.

KHV is nothing new, I didn't remember Dr. J losing all his fish. He is a vet and It happens to some of the best.

I'm also learning about columnaris and what it looks like on a microscope. I knew nothing about it or how to treat so I've found some great videos so I'll know what to look for, versus Sap. I didnt know columnaris was like moving worms, shy's away from light and is a quick killer.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3l3LGjbng0

Hmm, can't seem to find the Kevin post? :scratch:

[cindy]

Looks like it got moderated :( so you can't see it. He wanted to know why i bumped it after 12 years.

Marilyn, I'm making pond calls on alot of sick fish here that have no ties to PSkoi. We don't have vets here that help with fish so i'm trying to help them. I remember getting Japan fish years back and they got ulcers and I was helpless. Yesterday's pond call, I couldn't find a thing but she was head down and clamping.

[Goki56]

Hmm, can't seem to find the Kevin post? :scratch:

Was just approved.....Post #62

[Marilyn]

Looks like it got moderated :( so you can't see it. He wanted to know why i bumped it after 12 years.

Marilyn, I'm making pond calls on alot of sick fish here that have no ties to PSkoi. We don't have vets here that help with fish so i'm trying to help them. I remember getting Japan fish years back and they got ulcers and I was helpless. Yesterday's pond call, I couldn't find a thing but she was head down and clamping.

I understand, I figured it was a post that had not been approved yet but I do see it in your quote. I didn't want to out that it was a moderated unapproved post when you quoted it.

I hope you are up to speed on columnaris.
Honestly, I can't recommend UGA as a testing resource for KHV given that they don't forward clean samples for verification and recording on a Federal level. We were very pleased with the assistance we got from Purdue. Btw, the state vet (Dr. Strasser) that contacted us also mentioned Kennebec River Biosciences in Maine. One of our customers used them on a recommendation from Kodama and they do report and verify on a Federal level. :yes:

[cindy]

I understand, I figured it was a post that had not been approved yet but I do see it in your quote. I didn't want to out that it was a moderated unapproved post when you quoted it.

I hope you are up to speed on columnaris.
Honestly, I can't recommend UGA as a testing resource for KHV given that they don't forward clean samples for verification and recording on a Federal level. We were very pleased with the assistance we got from Purdue. Btw, the state vet (Dr. Strasser) that contacted us also mentioned Kennebec River Biosciences in Maine. One of our customers used them on a recommendation from Kodama and they do report and verify on a Federal level. :yes:

Thank you, trying to learn all I can. Purdue is closer to me. KSU or U of K doesn't do the testing even thought they are Agriculture colleges. I'll write Kennebec in my notes. Hope I never have to send a sample. Russ said blood isn't accurate so having a vet spin samples and send isn't reliable?

[rcmike]

Thanks for bumping this thread. I have read much about the symptoms of KHV but haven't seen the actual pictures. They are hard to look at. :(

[My2butterflies]

These pictures make my stomach hurt. Very informative and appreciated though.
My heart really goes out to those that have had this virus take their stock out. None of my koi were expensive or of high quality, but I’d be so devastated to lose even one. I can’t imagine that loss being added to the financial loss of an irreplaceable koi.

[Marilyn]

Thank you, trying to learn all I can. Purdue is closer to me. KSU or U of K doesn't do the testing even thought they are Agriculture colleges. I'll write Kennebec in my notes. Hope I never have to send a sample. Russ said blood isn't accurate so having a vet spin samples and send isn't reliable?

My understanding is that tissue samples collected properly afford the best possibility of an accurate result. Obviously, with a live koi that a person hopes to keep, that limits options. One option is a properly collected gill snip. Other methods utilizing organ tissue are not possible on a live koi but they provide the most accurate results.

I think Russ may have shared this anecdote here but it's come up in conversations with both Dr. Strasser and Dr. Tim Miller-Morgan. One of the studies done was to inject live KHV3 virus into koi and then tried to get it to break. My understanding is that they were unable to do so. I'm not sure if these doctors had each tried this or if they were citing the same study.
It's a virus; it's adapting or perhaps we're just getting more information on it or both. Unfortunately, there is no reliable way to expose it. They've seen it break in cooler temps than were thought previously. In any case, it makes qt protocols all the more important for all those with koi.

[cindy]

Thank you. I can't imagine the pain of destroying pets or the quantity you are dealing with. I truly hope the source comes out so no one else has to deal with this type of emotional or financial loss.

[NaturesCall]

Wow, it's been 12 Years already? FishNpond was the company Lin and I started. Naturally it didn't take off because all our koi died or were euthanized. Cindy, remember when we took you folk to Canada and they asked if you were carrying any guns because you were from Kentucky? :)

This hobby doesn't come without challenges. It's how we face them. Lin and I had a decision to make after we lost everything. Quit the hobby or teach others from our mistakes. I'm glad we stuck it out as our new koi are still loved to this day.

Stay strong and learn through each obstacle...

kind regards,
Walt

[cindy]

Wow, it's been 12 Years already? FishNpond was the company Lin and I started. Naturally it didn't take off because all our koi died or were euthanized. Cindy, remember when we took you folk to Canada and they asked if you were carrying any guns because you were from Kentucky? :)

This hobby doesn't come without challenges. It's how we face them. Lin and I had a decision to make after we lost everything. Quit the hobby or teach others from our mistakes. I'm glad we stuck it out as our new koi are still loved to this day.

Stay strong and learn through each obstacle...

kind regards,
Walt

Good to see you on Walt. I remember going to the casino and the buffet :)

Glad to hear you stayed with it, would love to see pictures