PDA

View Full Version : Japanese culls



cindy
07-01-2004, 07:54 PM
Ok Lukie - another thread. I was asking about Japanese culls and transporting eggs in tupperware (ok skip that last part)

Just for thought - I know it'll never happen.

Japanese cull the ugly (or what they think is ugly) What would it hurt to save some of these fish and put them in say my pond? The family lines would stop there so that wouldn't be as issue. Feo was happy and was just a "show" quality fish.

What say ya'll?

Sarge
07-01-2004, 07:59 PM
Cindy, it is a matter of flooding the market which would drive prices down, which would mean less profit for the dealer.

cindy
07-01-2004, 08:03 PM
I know these an art to picking out possibles but can you imagine how many good looking fish get dumped.

Flood the market? Wonder what percent of koi make it 5 years or more?

tranquility
07-01-2004, 08:47 PM
Really dumb question-but, what happens to the culls.
and also do you mean the japenese sale only the good ones?or also sale the ones close to specifications and do what with the rest?Also I was told only to breed say-asagi to asagi and so on. Is that how they do it in Japan?
Lawanna

luke frisbee
07-01-2004, 08:49 PM
Sin, Please child Learn to develop a topic for a thread...you have like 4 different topics in your preamble
Here is a thought....everytime you see a mud pond full of gosanke fry on one of the known japanese ponds you are seeing a pond that holds a koi with the potential to win GC at the all japan show.
Often that koi and several others capable of winning are culled the first year. And there in lies the rub. See the Japanese ruthlessly cull. They cull down to what they think is the ideal whatever it is they are culling. They had an image of what they wanted when they bought the breeders; If it don't look like it will fit that image it is GONE. If it looks OK it'll be sold off, if it ain't close it'll go up on the bank or out the back door with their name not remotely attached to it.
That is why when you get a Matsonuske(sp) Sanke, it is a matsonuske sanke. It was sold by him after he choose it to represent what he has developed as a sanke. If you bring it to the states and breed it to another Matsonuske Sanke none of the babies are matsonuske. They are babies from matsonuske parents; but they never got the stamp from the matsonuske farm. You can sell them as fry from matsonuske parents, not as Matsonuske.
So there is no problem with you taking koi from a major breeder that don't measure up to his standard. You just won't get them coming out the front door with his seal of approval. Alot of breeders "back door" their later culls. They front door the ones that aren't too bad.
But once again, what goes out the back door has a high probability of not being anything significant at a show. And then we all know koi change....change alot. So often a GC potential koi is culled or sold as a cheap fish and is given a "cheap fish" existence and dies early and never achieves significant growth or recognition of its potential.
here's a fish I killed that I'd actual give all My koi money for ayear to have back. It never looked like a champ to anyone. but I could see it. i even named her. her growth was great, and every week she turned into a different and better koi. Every week her colors moved and changed. She looked like hell, but she was going to be a great large koi, and I killed her.
She was a throw in with some other koi I got in Atlanta at the KoiUSA conference. The only thing the dealer knew was that she was an odd ball that came in with a shipment of gosanke. The first pic was in july the last pic was in october (I think).

cindy
07-01-2004, 09:02 PM
Lukie- there was only 1 question - What would it hurt to save some of these fish and put them in say my pond? And you understand my ramblings anyhoo.

Nice fish Luke.

How do they cull? Just toss them out to die?

I don't need a seal of approval from a breeder. Just like watching beautiful fish.

Aqua
07-01-2004, 09:07 PM
Do you reeeeeally want to know what happens to them? I don't. Culling is never nice.

I got some really nice fish from Gene that were Japanese imports - 3-4" long. These were surely culls from someone. They were nice for me, but I doubt somehow they would win a show.

cindy
07-01-2004, 09:10 PM
I can't cull - if they make it - they go to good homes.

One year - I hatched hundreds of koi in an aquarium. Wanted to see them develop. Luckily found homes for all of them. Now nature takes its course.

tranquility
07-01-2004, 09:20 PM
Same here Cindy. I can't kill a perfectly healthy anything.Even the ugly ones get homes.and what you might concider ugly -someone else considers pretty.I think the plain brown koi are ugly as sin- but, some people like them because they grow sooo fast.
Lawanna
but, does every one agree-the ugly ones seem to grow faster than the purty ones?

cindy
07-01-2004, 09:26 PM
I'm ashamed to say I just saved a black widow spider. She was huge, biggest one I've ever seen. Just couldn't kill her. Took her back to the farm field and let her go. Watch - she'll be in my truck in the morning.

Oh yeah the ugly ones are hardier. Good thing for me. All mine are mutts. :D

koiingaround
07-02-2004, 08:43 AM
Do you reeeeeally want to know what happens to them? I don't. Culling is never nice.

I got some really nice fish from Gene that were Japanese imports - 3-4" long. These were surely culls from someone. They were nice for me, but I doubt somehow they would win a show.

Most of the good breeders use the first couple culls for food!!!

cindy
07-02-2004, 09:01 AM
Guess thats not too awful - my koi "cull" the babies that they can.

koiingaround
07-02-2004, 09:19 AM
And I have heard that some of the older ones get tossed over the culler's sholder for the birds to get...

Aqua
07-02-2004, 12:04 PM
While you were writing that I was watching a show about black widow spiders. They were trying to dispell the bad image they have. Saying that most adults won't even need to see a dr, just take two tylenol and forget it. To even pierce your skin it needs to be in a spot where your skin is very thin.

I have a really hard time culling the larger ones. The smaller ones are easier as I have a pair of Belonesox belezanius that are piscavores. They are more than happy to help me out.

BickalDIYPond
07-02-2004, 12:25 PM
Same issue came up when I visted Kloubecs. I asked them if they grind them up and feed them to the rest of the koi (hey, I watch the Matrix). They sell their culls as bait fish in Missouri. Market flooding issue. Eventually the market will get flooded, its just a matter of time. (as soon as my new pair starts breeding). Ha ha ha, (evil menicale laugh).

p.s. Ive thrown a cull or two over my shoulder into the bushes. Only the corky ones tho :D You wouldnt beleive, but even people will take the corky koi for free. They say, please dont kill them, I'll give them a good home. Well, yeah, but then when somebody looks at your pond and sees a koi for the first time with a big dented head or a puckered mouth, they might not want to have a koi pond of their own. Got to be some standard....

You'd also be surprized what people will buy. I sell everything I can breed. All white, all orange, two color, three color. Doesnt matter. You cant have a pond of all three colored koi. If you do, a solid colored koi will look great. It will stand out and might even be your favorite. People like different things.

Aqua
07-02-2004, 02:06 PM
Soylent Green. Or is that going back too far?

fishtales
07-03-2004, 02:09 AM
Shouldnt that be 'Koilent green'? FT.

JPR
07-03-2004, 03:21 AM
Japan has at least 3500 breeders.
Some are small and some much larger but if each as 4 breeding pairs---
That's 14,000 breedings a year.
If each spawn were a conservative 20,000 fry-----
That's 280,000,0000 koi a year to find homes for!

add Israeli, Taiwanese, Korean, Indonesian, Chinese, the USA and South Africa and that would be maybe 600,000,0000 baby koi a year.

How big IS your pond anyway, Cindy? ;) JR

lindan
07-07-2004, 12:25 AM
"Koilent Green"... heeheeheehee (oops, showing my age!)

Linda

Meagain #1b
07-07-2004, 07:07 AM
Aqua - LOL I was just thinking "that's so very Solent Green". :) Course I think this when I gave them that fake crab last week. Creepy!

schildkoi
07-07-2004, 07:28 AM
Here's some "excapees" free for the netting....just fly to Japan...train to Isawa, find a net and ship them back! LOL

Steve

Blammo
07-07-2004, 07:30 AM
Japan has at least 3500 breeders.
Some are small and some much larger but if each as 4 breeding pairs---
That's 14,000 breedings a year.
If each spawn were a conservative 20,000 fry-----
That's 280,000,0000 koi a year to find homes for!

add Israeli, Taiwanese, Korean, Indonesian, Chinese, the USA and South Africa and that would be maybe 600,000,0000 baby koi a year.

How big IS your pond anyway, Cindy? ;) JR
HOLY MACKEREL
Thats enough fry to create 120 million 5 fish wonderzzzz :eek::eek:
I'm doomed ! :D:rolleyes: