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lovin_chevy84
01-27-2016, 01:51 PM
I have a female Kohaku, male Aka Sanke and a male Showa. Which would be the better male for the kohaku or can I use both males?

koiman1950
01-27-2016, 03:06 PM
What are your goals as to variety(s) you're trying to get overall? If you use fish like that Showa you posted, that hasn't grown much, you probably wouldn't be looking at much in the way of size/body conformation from the offspring.

lovin_chevy84
01-27-2016, 04:26 PM
This is for fun, not expecting any show winners but yes, it's the Showa that was posted also the Aka Sanke.

jimfish98
01-27-2016, 04:37 PM
You should use both for a better fertilization rate on the spawn. Have fun with it and hopefully you get a few keepers you can enjoy watching grow.

lovin_chevy84
01-27-2016, 05:37 PM
You should use both for a better fertilization rate on the spawn. Have fun with it and hopefully you get a few keepers you can enjoy watching grow.

That's what I want to do but if I remember right, the Showa is a white based, Sanke is black based and the kohaku is white based as well. Curious on how mixing that will do. Will it result in more junk?

jimfish98
01-27-2016, 05:42 PM
If it's all for fun, it doesn't matter what you get.

lovin_chevy84
01-27-2016, 08:18 PM
No doubt but curious though as the Sumi is different between the males too. I'm the kind of person that likes thing to be known before head of time lol

Matt24
01-27-2016, 09:57 PM
... if I remember right, the Showa is a white based, Sanke is black based ...

I think it is the other way around. Sanke and Kohaku go pretty well together. I'm not as sure about Showa and Kohaku, but I would not blame you if you wanted to try both.

lovin_chevy84
01-28-2016, 06:45 PM
I think it is the other way around. Sanke and Kohaku go pretty well together. I'm not as sure about Showa and Kohaku, but I would not blame you if you wanted to try both.
I've never been good at remembering which one is which to be honest. But I should expect both white and black fry though, correct?

Matt24
01-28-2016, 09:43 PM
... I should expect both white and black fry though, correct?

I think you will have some dark fry and that the majority will be light. Breeding showa together generally produces a lot of dark fry maybe 40-70% depending on the parents. And the more the better, as that's the type of fry that good showa usually come from. I've never crossed showa and kohaku, but I would expect you would still get some dark ones. I'd also expect a few dark colored fry from the sanke x kohaku pair, as I got that once myself.

Note that showa (and I think utsuri too) tend to be slow about showing their colors/patterns. They may be dark and drab until they get to around 1.5" to 2.5", and then change quickly, and often in a good way.

lovin_chevy84
01-29-2016, 12:19 AM
I think you will have some dark fry and that the majority will be light. Breeding showa together generally produces a lot of dark fry maybe 40-70% depending on the parents. And the more the better, as that's the type of fry that good showa usually come from. I've never crossed showa and kohaku, but I would expect you would still get some dark ones. I'd also expect a few dark colored fry from the sanke x kohaku pair, as I got that once myself.

Note that showa (and I think utsuri too) tend to be slow about showing their colors/patterns. They may be dark and drab until they get to around 1.5" to 2.5", and then change quickly, and often in a good way.

Interesting on the slow showers, this match will for sure be a learning game

Wombat
01-29-2016, 02:55 AM
I think there is some color confusion going on here. Basically Showa are a black based fish and there babies are also black ( you will also get shiro and hi Utsuri from these ) Sanke are a white based fish as is Kohaku thus the babies are white ( this is all dependant on the genetic background of the parents which is very un reliable in Australia ). Either way I have found that it is not wise to rush into culling of both Showa and Sanke as they take some time to show their true colors.

lovin_chevy84
01-29-2016, 08:06 AM
I think there is some color confusion going on here. Basically Showa are a black based fish and there babies are also black ( you will also get shiro and hi Utsuri from these ) Sanke are a white based fish as is Kohaku thus the babies are white ( this is all dependant on the genetic background of the parents which is very un reliable in Australia ). Either way I have found that it is not wise to rush into culling of both Showa and Sanke as they take some time to show their true colors.

I do this for fun since I'm so horrible at culling and knowing what to look for, I only take out deformities

Wombat
01-29-2016, 02:48 PM
I crossed Showa and Kohaku once and was not impressed with the result but if you do this and have enough space I recommend separating the black fry (a couple of days after swim up stage) as they tend to develop a lot slower. Aka and Shiro Muji can also be culled along with deformities and I only keep Kohaku that have a white nose.

lovin_chevy84
01-29-2016, 02:51 PM
I crossed Showa and Kohaku once and was not impressed with the result but if you do this and have enough space I recommend separating the black fry (a couple of days after swim up stage) as they tend to develop a lot slower. Aka and Shiro Muji can also be culled along with deformities and I only keep Kohaku that have a white nose.

That was my plan, put the whites in a pool and black in a pool to watch. I normally throw a wrench into the mix so it's a free for all but I want to spend the time to watch and see how everyone develops

lovin_chevy84
01-29-2016, 02:52 PM
I have had 4 12ft pools before in my backyard and I have nothing but time :)

Wombat
01-30-2016, 03:53 PM
Mate your plan sounds good. Time is a great resource in this game and something I have had very little of this year leaving my fry way behind in development. It's now a game of catch up before we go into winter. Looking forward to watching your project when will you do the spawn?