Allinkdup's G/O Tosai

[Billy Pounds]

Here are the babies that were drawn for me....overall...I was pleased with the beginning product.....I am looking forward to working with these guys...I am making some custom food for them this week....we'll see how they do on the food I create.........Billy

[jimfish98]

How did they measure up? The one looks like a beast in comparison to the others.

[icu2]

:wow: Beautiful group! Should be a fun bunch to watch grow! :yes:

[fishin4cars]

nice group, I like right now the three at the bottom in the last pic the best, That heavy sumi showa is really nice to look at right now. Seems to me though that sumi is the hardest thing to keep. Each showa I have gotten has started fading sumi soon after I added to my pond, my water and their water must be quite different. Good luck and will enjoy seeing how your home made food works on them as well.

[Billy Pounds]

How did they measure up? The one looks like a beast in comparison to the others.

Thx guys...to be honest Jim when i put them in the tub it was mainly just to get some pics up...while i was doing a half tub water change in the qt...I got in late today...I haven't had my camera...when i got it ..i couldn't find my charger..gggrrrr....so i used the teenager's for a quick overview.....i left water in the view tub so i could take more in the morning...lol

[Billy Pounds]

99% sure the big Showa is a female...and the Kohaku at the top of the last pic on the right looks female as well going by the anal slits....the dark Showa has a perpindicular anal slit, but it also has the squinky star winking back at ya....it is confused....pecs look male...we'll see....I am not brave enough to try what i saw Kari Peters post about the guy licking the fish to tell...it all tastes like fish to me...hehe...maybe if someone showed me I would though....for shock value....Billy

[Billy Pounds]

nice group, I like right now the three at the bottom in the last pic the best, That heavy sumi showa is really nice to look at right now. Seems to me though that sumi is the hardest thing to keep. Each showa I have gotten has started fading sumi soon after I added to my pond, my water and their water must be quite different. Good luck and will enjoy seeing how your home made food works on them as well.

This makes the second Old School Showa for me...that was the only one i put on my selection list for color/pattern...we have water that is 7.6 outta the ground here...we have a great aquifer of water under Memphis...I have been watching a lot of vids on Y/T about digging your own well...it is against code here but I am going to do it anyway....they'll never know any different as long as it is in my back yard...no utilities back there so the meter reader will never see it...uh huh...uh huh...lol

[Spartan]

I think you ended up doing very well with the showas in particular. The large one is my personal favorite; it looks like the latent sumi will make a very balanced pattern when it emerges. It will be interesting to see if the mineral content in your well water will boost that.

[rainblood]

Lol, looks like your Showas are female and Kohakus are male :D:
It'll be interesting to see how that big Showa develops particularly with that body shape...

[Billy Pounds]

Lol, looks like your Showas are female and Kohakus are male :D:
It'll be interesting to see how that big Showa develops particularly with that body shape...

Rain, she is actually , in my opinion,a little chubby for her size..i have heard purdin's fish have a tendency to grow in spurts....weight, then length, and then weight again...you get it..I think she'll be big....i'll be watching

[rainblood]

She's got massive shoulders/head which tapers down pretty sharply to the tail tube.
I've seen this body shape before on tosai and have always wondered how they developed.
Your dark Showa is more "normal" shaped.

I don't follow Purdin but assuming the same gene pool, it'll be an interesting comparison.

[jimfish98]

She has a big head to grow into, lol.

[koisan]

The smallest showa looked like it has a crooked right gill plate. I hope there's nothing wrong.

[Billy Pounds]

The smallest showa looked like it has a crooked right gill plate. I hope there's nothing wrong.

that was the way it came koisan...I guess it was the luck of the draw that i got that fish...you dont see it in all the pics....kinda surprised Purdin sent it...i heard they cull pretty hard...i like the pattern on the little guy though..you really can't see it as bad in pics 6&9....i will probably end up rehoming it eventually...i will watch it's development to see how the skin, growth, and colors turn out....Billy

[rainblood]

that was the way it came koisan...I guess it was the luck of the draw that i got that fish...you dont see it in all the pics....kinda surprised Purdin sent it...i heard they cull pretty hard...i like the pattern on the little guy though...i will probably end up rehoming it eventually...i will watch it's development to see how the skin, growth, and colors turn out....Billy

Total bummer

[Billy Pounds]

I just got home from the oriental market in my neighborhood...I bought dried anchovies and dried shrimp...they will go in the coffee grinder to be turned into meal...I have a 1/2 lb bag of spirulina flakes, 1 lb of fresh crawdads purreed, ground garlic, spinach and other greens, wheat flour, orange juice.....this will be the mix for my baby food...I'm sure i will feed my other fish this as well but it is mainly for the tosai...

[Billy Pounds]

How did they measure up? The one looks like a beast in comparison to the others.

the big showa was 11 jim...3 are 9.5", 1 is 9" and 1 is 8"

[Billy Pounds]

i made up enough "gruel" that has shrimp, anchovies, crayfish,spirulina,wheat flour,honey, garlic powder to get these guys started....baked at 350 for 40 minutes....then chopped up.....kinda like a moist and meaty dog food texture...they love it....i am making the second batch tomorrow with some color enhancer pellets for variety...the third batch will have fresh greens in it.....Billy

[Billy Pounds]

nice group, I like right now the three at the bottom in the last pic the best, That heavy sumi showa is really nice to look at right now. Seems to me though that sumi is the hardest thing to keep. Each showa I have gotten has started fading sumi soon after I added to my pond, my water and their water must be quite different. Good luck and will enjoy seeing how your home made food works on them as well.
You would think your water and Purdin's would be kinda close as you are so close to them...maybe not...are you on a well???

[Midorigoi]

Great looking school of fish!! That showa with the bent plate might have hope...they're all pretty small right now, and I had a fish with a completely crooked pec fin straighten out as she grew from 2" to 8", can't even notice it now. Just another thing to watch for!

I like your homemade fish food too, I use gelatin in my mix - will have to try baking it instead sometime. :D:

[koisan]

that was the way it came koisan...I guess it was the luck of the draw that i got that fish...you dont see it in all the pics....kinda surprised Purdin sent it...i heard they cull pretty hard...i like the pattern on the little guy though..you really can't see it as bad in pics 6&9....i will probably end up rehoming it eventually...i will watch it's development to see how the skin, growth, and colors turn out....Billy

Sorry to hear that...:uggg: I just hope it didn't have any health issue that prevents it from growing as big as the rest. please watch it closely.

[Billy Pounds]

I was told I could pick another one of the fish that were left but i would have to pay shipping on it if i wanted it....thinking about that....hmmmmmm

[Billy Pounds]

Great looking school of fish!! That showa with the bent plate might have hope...they're all pretty small right now, and I had a fish with a completely crooked pec fin straighten out as she grew from 2" to 8", can't even notice it now. Just another thing to watch for!

I like your homemade fish food too, I use gelatin in my mix - will have to try baking it instead sometime. :D:

It made the house smell interesting Stacy...I did it while my wife and kids were gone....anchovies.mmmmmmmmmmmmm.....LOL...be forewarned it sticks to the pan...I will use foil next time...hehe

[Billy Pounds]

Here are some updated pics of my tosai from Purdin....and a Showa from Isa

[jimfish98]

In the 6th pic, are you treating the Kohaku on the top left? Looks like an infection on the side.

[Billy Pounds]

yeah Jim that was the replacement koi i got for the one with the messed up gill plate...i guess it was damaged in shipping and took a few days for the bruise to show...I hit it w/betadine then some Neosporin...if it isn't better in a day or 2 I'll give it some Baytril

[jimfish98]

I would take a close up pic and send it over to Joey. I think she will tell you its parasite/bacterial infection and give you best option for treatment. They can get banged around, but I think it likely had something and the stress from shipping weakened the immune giving it an opening to do damage.

[Billy Pounds]

I was going to Prazi the qt day after tomorrow....I just did a 150 gallon change on the 300...the water is 67 degrees...it is warm enough to nuke'm and I'll try to borrow my buddy's microscope in the next day or so if I can catch him...I already checked all the other fish out good when I did the w/c earlier......nobody else was showing any signs of any probs...since he got outta koi he really outta give me permanent loan of his M/S...he isn't using it<wink>...in the mean time I'll send Joey a pm...thx bro...

[Joey S]

yeah Jim that was the replacement koi i got for the one with the messed up gill plate...i guess it was damaged in shipping and took a few days for the bruise to show...I hit it w/betadine then some Neosporin...if it isn't better in a day or 2 I'll give it some iv Baytril
That doesn't look like a "typical" shipping injury. Usually those are banged noses, broken fin, etc. Possibly damaged when being netted and packed to ship. How long have you had it?

I would take a close up pic and send it over to Joey. I think she will tell you its parasite/bacterial infection and give you best option for treatment. They can get banged around, but I think it likely had something and the stress from shipping weakened the immune giving it an opening to do damage.
Pretty hard to tell exactly from that pic what might have happened. Are the scales all intact? No way to tell if the break in the skin was caused by a parasite or something else, but sure looks like the start of an ulcer - bacterial infection. TricideNeo dips are great for this. The betadine was a good start. If healing has started, you should see white (new skin) forming on the outside of the circle - filling toward the center.

I was going to Prazi the qt day after tomorrow....I just did a 150 gallon change on the 300...the water is 67 degrees...it is warm enough to nuke'm and I'll try to borrow my buddy's microscope in the next day or so if I can catch him...I already checked all the other fish out good when I did the w/c earlier......nobody else was showing any signs of any probs...since he got outta koi he really outta give me permanent loan of his M/S...he isn't using it<wink>...in the mean time I'll send Joey a pm...thx bro...

I would wait on a Prazi treatment. It's specifically for flukes, won't do anything for the booboo, and you don't know that you have any parasites going on. You might ask Purdin if they do any parasite treatments as a routine before shipping. No sense in treating what you don't have to.

Yep, get the scope and scrape.

[montwila]

Billy:

In post #24 you say a Showa from Isa. So the replacement was Showa or a Kohaku?

My local club is hosting a Showa grow out and of the two I got, one is a "wonderful" Kohaku. I am told the sumi will not start coming on until at least the second year and may take four years to develop. Is the Isa line much the same?

[Billy Pounds]

Monte, the replacement was a Kohaku, I didnt really like either of the 2 showa Frank had left....the showa from Isa in the pics is the 4 step male with the sumi dot on it's forehead ....I really haven't experienced too much with the other Isa's I got in the fall as far as color changing...yet...they all have a decent amount of sumi already with plenty of room for more to rise...thx Joey for the advice...I have had the fish since last Monday...

[KurtG]

I like the Isa much more than any of the rest...nice showa.

[Billy Pounds]

I know it was a pricey canary Kurt...lol...but it wasn't getting enough to eat in the pond with all the bigger fish....I have been trying to pack it on them in the q/t before they get moved...I'll be dumping 2/3's of my main pond's fish into my aquaponic system very soon and all of these new tosai are moving on up to the main pond...Billy

[lifeoffaith]

I love the traditional style! I want one so bad!

[Billy Pounds]

I have 1 Isa and the one from the g/o...i really think the old school Purdin tosai is a female..looking at the ventral area...throwing a pic of my old style Isa in the chat for lifeoffaith to covet...lol...Billy ;)

[rainblood]

I'd have to agree with Joey - that looks like the beginnings of a nasty ulcer. Tricide Neo..

[Billy Pounds]

I moved these guys from the qt finally into the main pond...much to my surprise I found something I was less than impressed with...when I looked at the original pics from the original post from Tampa Bay Koi of these fish on the first post about them I thought I noticed 'something sumi-ish' on number 20...I asked the vendor not to send me the fish if he saw what i saw...he said he didn't see it....I guess it went away for a bit...and it is black with a vengeance...lol...scaled blackness where it shouldn't be...on my nidan kohaku...maybe it will turn into a Sanke...not..I think the 5th fish shows the most potential as of tonight when i shot these pics....I got these to learn from and i guess i am getting what i wanted...for the most part everyone else is growing nicely...some nice characteristics on each individual fish and some flaws as well...it is what it is...all comments are welcome, as usual...I am in this for the education...Billy

[koisan]

Kohaku in pic. 5 is looking good. I like it the most out of the bunch.

[jimfish98]

Billy- any updates on the herd?

[Billy Pounds]

hello my brutha from anutha mutha...well overall it doesn't seem that they have grown a tremendous amount but they are thickening up for sure.....i will know for sure in the next week or two when i do a big W/C...I will net them up and post them..the one with the dropsy from the secondary infection/ulcer thing is actually coming around...I haven't tried treating her with any meds...I just have her in the A/P setup by herself in the sump tank...it seems the pineconing has majorly subsided and her body is getting back to a normal insteada mutant look...lol...she eats everyday....I was gonna try putting her in by herself as opposed to keeping her in the big pond where whatever got into her resides...all other fish are ok in the main pond...the OTC I got from Russ helped the Isa Showa with the bum pecs...they have filled back in nicely...and no more inflammation and redness...THANKS RUSS...!!!...i know it isn't standard protocol but i treated the whole pond with medicated OTC food for a week and a half because of 1 sick fish...but who knows what the culprit is/was....or if it is still there after 2-50% w/c's and several top-offs.....my pump on the q/t was kaput and work has been sucky lately so no extra funds to purchase a new pump for it.....hehe...so they all gotta dose of the tetracycline...i am still tempted to treat the dropsy fish just to see if it helps...like i say..that one has done a 100% turnaround from laying on the bottom sulking/sick...now if she would just quit swimming into the walls of the wood tank....pics sooner than later to be expected...Billy

[jimfish98]

Don't forget to get measurements and enter your grow outs into the Virtual Koi/Goldfish show, see how well your selecting and husbandry stacks against the others in the grow out.

[Billy Pounds]

Hi friends...here is an update on my kohaku and showa from Purdin...everybody is between 13-15" and they all started about 6-8"...the one with the bad gill cover went to a friend for his family pond...and the really fat showa was a disappointment...she is only about 10"and extremely short bodied...looks more like a fat comet than a showa...she will be rehomed as well...here is the rest of the group...and the obviously female kohaku was the replacement for the short gilled showa...she came in w/ulcers when i got her but scar tissue healed nicely but it looks like 2 shimi are trying to emerge there....the nidan kohaku now has 2 black scales instead of the one scale that was plucked out before i got my shipment...you know what they say, pluck a gray hair and 2 grow back...lol...and if the skin, conf and colors weren't so nice it would be gone too...the 2 male kohaku are blessed with really nice skin and really pleasant colors.and the old school showa is my favorite from the group...the sumi and hi pulled together nicely and i was worried because it was so splotchy when i got it....I have learned about color development and a bit more about skin quality...opinions and comments are welcome...Billy

[Spartan]

The Showa looks male. Might be very good if you can bulk him up.
The 2nd fish, the big kohaku, has great conformation but the beni looks shaky. The others have better beni but nowhere near as good conform.
I think you did great getting them to this stage.
Ultimately though I think Purdin didn't give us much to work with. Most folks fared worse by far with several going muji. To some extent that is price related but I also view it as a "try out" for their line. There were no fish that surprised to the upside. Growth overall was below average. I am very unlikely to ever buy one of their fish again.

[Billy Pounds]

Spartan I have one pond and fish from 12-24"...those big ones do some damage at feeding time and it is everybody for themselves...lol...I am not just trying to have these guys be monsters...so they only get fed once or twice per day...don't have an automatic feeder.....but their size will come with time and as I slowly weed out my pond grades they will eventually get more gallons per koi...

[Billy Pounds]

I figure that the female kohaku put on the most growth and that her beni has stretched out...hopefully it will be stable come springtime...hopefully the tail tube gets heavier too

[LadysSolo]

I like the showa a lot, and the third kohaku. I am with you - slower growing, and will get there eventually.

[koisan]

Thanks for the update, Billy. I'm glad to see that someone is still growing their purdin koi. I will update mine when the temp. Cools down here. I hope more people could update theirs as well.

[Billy Pounds]

thx koisan...i have been tardy for a while myself...lol...hope all is well with you and yours...Billy