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View Full Version : What Do You Use for Mechanical Filtration?



Mitch
03-06-2005, 05:17 AM
I was curious to learn what people use for "mechanical" filtration in their ponds, and what their opinions are of their respective systems? Are you pleased with it's performance?

If you are not satisfied with your current "mechanical" filter, what would you prefer to replace it with? What are the options you are considering?

Just trying to learn from others...

Thanks in advance,
Mitch

paulw
03-06-2005, 06:15 AM
My mechanical filtration was my vortex with the brushes in but took the brushes out and added a piece of jmat round the pipe, to stop solids entering the next chamber seems to be doing ok and less work to do now.

stephen
03-06-2005, 06:37 AM
Hi Mitch - What is your pond size:confused: What do you have now:confused:

Mitch
03-06-2005, 06:38 AM
How big is your vortex (maybe the diameter in inches?), and do you know what the flow rate is?

Just trying to learn here...

Thanks!
Mitch

Mitch
03-06-2005, 06:47 AM
See my other post, concerning "Ideas Needed for Pond Location". I have yet to determine "where" to build it? Living on a slope, I have quite a challenge ahead of me...

But I would prefer to use an RDF such as Koi Boy has designed...for mech filtration. Was thinking about making my own, however I have no where the skill or knowledge that Koi Boy has. Yet to be determined...

Living on a hill may provide a good view, but I lack the resources to get more 'flat' real estate, as of yet. Looking for ideas, and hoping (and asking) for new ideas, with the other post...

Mitch

stephen
03-06-2005, 06:53 AM
Yepper:yes: First and most important is where/size/gallonage That will help

determine a lot of the other things- Can you post a link to the other thread please:confused:

Mitch
03-06-2005, 06:54 AM
Glad to hear you got a foam fractionator, or protein skimmer (and what a big one, at that!). That should complete your filtration system, as far as I know (and I know very little!).

I remember talking to you about one, many moons ago...at that point, I don't think you were game for one, but I'm glad you got one. Not to deviate from this topic, but has it reduced the amount of foaming or bubbles (DOC's) you see on the waters surface? I would venture to say a big YES? Am I correct?

Mitch

Mitch
03-06-2005, 06:56 AM
Please click here...

I need all the input I can get!

Thanks,
Mitch

http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13364

stephen
03-06-2005, 07:03 AM
Yes




Glad to hear you got a foam fractionator, or protein skimmer (and what a big one, at that!). That should complete your filtration system, as far as I know (and I know very little!).

I remember talking to you about one, many moons ago...at that point, I don't think you were game for one, but I'm glad you got one. Not to deviate from this topic, but has it reduced the amount of foaming or bubbles (DOC's) you see on the waters surface? I would venture to say a big YES? Am I correct?

Mitch

paulw
03-06-2005, 09:35 AM
How big is your vortex (maybe the diameter in inches?), and do you know what the flow rate is?

Just trying to learn here...

Thanks!
Mitch

Size wise there 2ft vortexs inside diamater, not sure of flow rate, heres a picture attached of them pryer to being filled.

khoffman19
03-06-2005, 09:39 AM
Tell me more. I was just about to add brushes. Less work sounds good.
My mechanical filtration was my vortex with the brushes in but took the brushes out and added a piece of jmat round the pipe, to stop solids entering the next chamber seems to be doing ok and less work to do now.

LouAnn NOrman
03-06-2005, 09:55 AM
Hi Mitch,
I have a settlement pond, layers of matala, bags of strapping then my bio filter and TT. It all does a great job, with year round crystal clear water. Healthy fish too.

Mitch
03-08-2005, 02:37 AM
I know that my local vendor likes to recommend matala pads sold with their vortexes (several hundred dollars more?) to aid in mechanical filtration, but many I have spoken to say that the matala pads provide no benefit at all?

Those who do not prefer to use the matala pads seem to claim that the algae build up (on the vortex side walls) helps to provide a build up on the vortex walls, that slows the suspended solids rotation speed, thus increasing the performance of the vortex?

Many even feel that a vortex "lid" is not beneficial, per the above theory? The benefit of algae, etc.

Has anyone used matala pads with vortexes? If so, what color do you use (I have been told that the color dictates the density or the mechanical filtering capacity?) What color or density do you recommend?

Any opinions?

Thanks,
Mitch

Mitch
03-08-2005, 05:41 AM
Have you decided what exactly you will fill those vortexes with? Have you made a decission about brushes yet?

Have you got an idea on what kinda flow rate you will have?

Is there any other info you can share about your system? Curious to learn more...

Thanks,
Mitch

Akitakoi
03-08-2005, 11:09 AM
Check out the Gizmo thread, useing static bio media seems to be the new treand for mechanical filtration.

CarolinaGirl
03-08-2005, 11:15 AM
Check out the Gizmo thread, useing static bio media seems to be the new treand for mechanical filtration.

Seems like it works well for many people! As soon as I get more Kaldnes, I plan to convert the center of my Nexus as a static kaldnes chamber. I might convert both vortex tanks too...one as static and one as moving bed. Lots of options here!

Akitakoi
03-08-2005, 11:50 AM
Seems like it works well for many people! As soon as I get more Kaldnes, I plan to convert the center of my Nexus as a static kaldnes chamber. I might convert both vortex tanks too...one as static and one as moving bed. Lots of options here!
You know were to get a deal on biomedia?:D:

A couple weeks!;)

CarolinaGirl
03-08-2005, 11:55 AM
You know were to get a deal on biomedia?:D:

A couple weeks!;)

Yeah...there's this guy on Koiphen that sells it cheap...I already ordered some!!! :D: :D: :D:

Dan Blatt
03-08-2005, 12:38 PM
Mitch...I have a 48" by 36" inch Sprirex vortex fed from two 4 inch bottom drains. I put a roll of blue matala in the top just below the outlet to the pump. Works well for me as it stopped alot of the fine from going to the pump and into the Aquadyne 4.4 bead filter. The vendor said the black was what he would use in a vortex, but thought the denser blue would also work. I wanted more surface area to stop what I could from leaving the vortex as well for bateria growth.
I'm very happy with it. Easy to clean...drop the vortex, take about 7 or 8 five gallons buckets of pond water and dump on top of matala and it looks as clean as when I put it in. Crud to the filter was reduced significantly.

luke-gr
03-08-2005, 02:04 PM
Dan, you're happy with your Spirex vortex? Ive noticed they seem to be a pretty good value for the size compared to the other brands. What kind of flow are you running through it total?

ajm808
03-08-2005, 02:44 PM
hi this is mine on 5000 gal uk pond vortex then 5 bay filter brushes+japmat+flocore+sponge+alfagrog and oystershell.
turnover every two hours.
plus at opposite end backi shower with bhm pumping 3000 gal hour.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/ajm808/filters012.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/ajm808/filters013.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/ajm808/winterpics003.jpg

Ryan S.
03-08-2005, 02:54 PM
Lots of different takes on mechanical filtration, to much to cover in a single post. Your questions is what are we using, so here is what I run:

Goldfish pond, reticulated foam wraped around PVC ("tadpole" type). A cheap solution to a small preform that does not require much, reticulated foam is one of the better traditional mat type medias. Clean I would guess micron size would be ~1000micron filtering, dirty its probably down in the ~50-100 micron range. This is the downside of most mat types, brushes and such, they don't filter well clean and require hand cleaning.

Koi pond
- Various mat type filters, I gave up on these, no place in a Koi pond for me, to much maintenance to little and inconsistant results.

- Settlement tank, vortex shape out of liner outlet is vertical pipe to next stage that are ~3" under water level. Gets out some of the heavier particles that are flushed via 3" valve.

-DIY Microstrainers (behind settlement), SS versions I have been running 180micron screens, with biofilm buildup these maybe are able to filter down to ~50-150 microns. I have some 250micron SS screens also. Also a version with 105micron nylon screen that have built but not tested yet, these should have little or no bio film thus filter around 105 microns all all time. These units self-clean but need tanks flushed weekly by hand

-Static K1, I'm guessing ~2000microns cleaning when clean, has not performed well so far for me, in system did not appear to be enough for it catch much of anything. I removed the microstrainers to test the K1 by itself for a 5-6 weeks, still no signs of clogging. It did catch a good amount of stuff when I finally did clean it. I doing some changes to further test this, the chamber I am using is my K1 moving bed drum, which can go back and forth between a aerated moving bed and static K1 mech filter, I have a air manfold to clean it with and air pump (drilled PVC) and another larger that is going in so I can clean it with a 2hp blower (drilled 2" PVC) that it will share with a bead filter. I will be testing this season with this on a mid-level intake and UV line.

-Bead filters, I have a Sacramento Koi bead but haven't used it yet. Here again filtering ablity it difficult to tell, on these "real" bead filters these tiny beads by my guesstimate maybe ~300-400 microns when clean, down to ~50 microns by the time most people clean them. Cleaning probably weekly takes a couple minutes, but you stay clean doing it. They are a little costly, I probably have more in the bead filter than the rest of the entire pond, but its something that will last and has decent resale value.

Mitch
03-08-2005, 04:25 PM
C5 -
Do you have any pics posted here of your DIY screen filter? Sounds like you have quite a lot experience with different mech types and media. Using the K1 as a mech filter, how is it cleaned? Or does it need to be (I know in a bead type set-up, it can be backflushed)? Thanks for posting...

ajm -
Wow, that looks like a very complete system! Love that bakki shower. Looks you've covered all the bases with the many chamers, and media. Thanks.

Dan B -
That's the brand vortex I will buy, if I ever get going here. When I saw one in person the first time, man - they're big! The place also recommended the matala matt, too (Fancy Koi Outlet, SJ, CA).

Akitakoi -
I've seen the Gizmo. I like it. Sparked some ideas for me too. K1 seems to be the most popular (submereged) media now, and I like the fluid action.

Thanks for the info everyone!
Mitch

Koi-Nes
03-08-2005, 09:02 PM
Hello united Koiphen's,
"This is a test experiment"
I am Tom, I live and Koi out on a Island in Florida called Marco Island. It's on the Gulf, just south of Naples and north of Everglades City.
This is my first post so please be patient, being a slow typist I will keep this short and not to worry if I don't respond right away.
Been ponding slash KOI ponding since 1999.
The mechanical filtration this time around,pond up grade four, will be a
D.E. Pro-Grid DE120,120gpm. This will be fed by to bottom drains using
two 1/4 Dragons with a separate feed/fill area for D.E. material.
There will be Two skimmers-skimmin, moving water to two waterfalls and one to supply water to a trickle tower having a total height of eleven feet.
Details on trickle will be posted later, another experiment.
Two 1/4 Dragons will work the skimmers.
The DE120 will be filled only half way to prevent clogging.
All plumbing will be done with 4", 3" flex PVC, and 2" flex. With mid-water
returns. No rocks on the bottom, a long I told you so story.
I will try to squeeze out 5,000 gals., deep end 5 foot.
I like the filtration spectrum rating for D.E. on page 315 (TECH TALK 99)
Depending on performance and feed back I would consider adding another D.E.
"not to lurk no more." And yes I will try to make it Sunday
Health to your Koi, Tom

LouAnn NOrman
03-08-2005, 09:57 PM
Hello, Tom, and welcome. I am glad you decided to post!

Akitakoi
03-08-2005, 10:06 PM
Tom!

Do you know The Big Twig? enitials JS? Naples guy!



Hello united Koiphen's,
"This is a test experiment"
I am Tom, I live and Koi out on a Island in Florida called Marco Island. It's on the Gulf, just south of Naples and north of Everglades City.
This is my first post so please be patient, being a slow typist I will keep this short and not to worry if I don't respond right away.
Been ponding slash KOI ponding since 1999.
The mechanical filtration this time around,pond up grade four, will be a
D.E. Pro-Grid DE120,120gpm. This will be fed by to bottom drains using
two 1/4 Dragons with a separate feed/fill area for D.E. material.
There will be Two skimmers-skimmin, moving water to two waterfalls and one to supply water to a trickle tower having a total height of eleven feet.
Details on trickle will be posted later, another experiment.
Two 1/4 Dragons will work the skimmers.
The DE120 will be filled only half way to prevent clogging.
All plumbing will be done with 4", 3" flex PVC, and 2" flex. With mid-water
returns. No rocks on the bottom, a long I told you so story.
I will try to squeeze out 5,000 gals., deep end 5 foot.
I like the filtration spectrum rating for D.E. on page 315 (TECH TALK 99)
Depending on performance and feed back I would consider adding another D.E.
"not to lurk no more." And yes I will try to make it Sunday
Health to your Koi, Tom

Koi-Nes
03-08-2005, 10:16 PM
Akitakoi

The Big Twig, JS Naples Guy, I don't know him, still it's nice to know there is Koiphen close by.

Mitch
03-08-2005, 10:29 PM
And thanks for posting your system info - greatly appreciated.

Have you used the D.E. system yet? I hear they work so well, that maintenance might be an issue? (I just read that on Roarks site - the article is below).

Thanks, and Welcome!

Mitch
_____________
Roarks on DE Filters

Under the heading MYTHS of koi Ponds -

"You Cant Use A Diatomaceous Earth Filter In A Koi Pond"

I recently attended a lecture given by a self-proclaimed pond "guru" and heard this gem. This goofball dressed himself up in a white lab coat and cited numerous "mineral and electrolyte removal" effects. Balls... D.E filters work just fine, and no, they don't affect minerals or electrolytes! Any first-year chemistry student would giggle into his apron at such a claim. (For the record you'd need something along the lines of a molecular sieve to grab dissolved minerals and electrolytes... not something so incredibly coarse as D.E media). In fact, if you want absolutely the clearest water imaginable, you might want to look into one of these. Now for the bad news. They are a huge maintainence item. They simply work too darned well. Initially, expect they will load-up solid within 2-3 hours. When this happens you must manually back-flush them, replenish the gooped-up D.E media, etc. Lather, rinse, repeat. You can count on doing this daily until Hell freezes over. But you'll have some amazingly clear water. Is this filter system for you? Likely not... but it *can* be used with koi. I've done it."

http://www.click2roark.com/cgi-win/weborder.exe?operation=getdoc&document=xxindex
___________

Mitch

Koi-Nes
03-08-2005, 10:57 PM
Mitch,

I saw that a while ago, but need to test it out for myself.
Always like to improve on mech. filtration, based on the weight of evidence.
I want to see if I use an over-sized D.E. filter to overcome these issues.
The pond should be finished in May.

Also, I believe someone sent private message, but it was blocked.
Will be off the board in a few minutes, need my rest.
Thank you all for the welcome. Go Koi, Tom

Ryan S.
03-09-2005, 08:16 AM
C5 -
Do you have any pics posted here of your DIY screen filter? Sounds like you have quite a lot experience with different mech types and media. Using the K1 as a mech filter, how is it cleaned? Or does it need to be (I know in a bead type set-up, it can be backflushed)? Thanks for posting...


http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3929&highlight=microstrainer

I have a nylon screen version and 250 micron drums built also but haven't tested either. I'm sure sure the 250s will work great, that is usually what I recommend even though I run the 180s. The nylon versions need a year of testing.

Static K1 was just left by itself for about 6 weeks with all other filtration cut off. I have a replacment air manifold out of 1/2" PVC with drilled holes that I can easily swap out in place of my 1/2" PVC air stone manafold for cleaning via a pond air pump, 2.3cfm in this case. I haven't put in in yet, but also will have a 2" pvc manafold with drilled holes for backwashing from a 2hp blower that is on my bead filter, want to see if this does a better job.