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Russell Peters
01-19-2012, 10:13 AM
From Toshio Sakai


Spring / Summer Annual Cycle


There is an annual cycle in the life of Nishiki Koi. During the months of May and June, the female Koi tends to direct her stored nutrition and energy towards the development of her eggs. This is a natural and instinctive behavior for producing offspring. The caretaker must be particularly careful with increasing the food volume during this season.

It must be stated here, that while the water temperature is still low in May and June, the Koi does not utilize nutrition for body development. To an untrained observer, the fish might appear to have gained in its size, but in reality, it is filled with eggs in the fat stomach. It looks as if it had developed its body, but the body would be lacking in its basic physical strength.

If the Koi lives through this spawning season and the condition she is in, in the month of July, eggs turn into white empty shells. The more the spawning timing passes by, the more infertile eggs. After the spawning season it is natural instinct for the Koi to direct all its nutritional intake towards own body development. Hence, it should be known that body development can start only after the spawning period. Selected Koi are brought to Niigata mud pond from the concrete ponds of Isawa for their optimal development. It is important to decrease the water temperature gradually and prepare the body condition before introducing the Koi into the cooler mud pond. It is a challenge to feed Koi optimally during these three months. Depending upon how well the food was provided during these three months, there will be difference in the basic body strength. When the body grows, color becomes lighter; however, it is more important to build up the basic body strength, and if the body is solid, the luster will eventually develop.

If the fish can be fed properly and successfully during this period, then as the desired stage of growth and development approaches, the Koi will developed a highly lustrous skin. By feeding plentifully during the summer time, one can also develop Koi with graceful appearance in the way it swims in the water. Our experience has been that in the summer months, the saturation level of oxygen in the water is important for the Nishiki Koi health.? When water temperature rises near 86F (30C). Nishiki Koi food consumption diminishes.

In order to accommodate the increased food consumption and aid in the digestion, additional oxygen need to be provided. For the reasons stated above, well-mixed water with plenty of aeration is important. Often, pond water appears to be circulating well, but dead spots are not uncommon for any irregularly shaped pond; especially if they are deep. To summarize then, the ideal pond water for Koi health can be achieved by the infusion of a substantial volume of air, and generation of counter currents in the circulating water.

Russell Peters
01-19-2012, 10:19 AM
Mr. Sakai has spent a lot of time experimenting with the growth, and development of his Koi. What he has discovered, I think, applies to all Koi. Developing a cycle is very important but what your goals are, with your Koi, will determine whether or not this is really something that you want to try.
Koi are four season, cold blooded, animals and to have them reach their full potential it is important for you to understand what they need through out the year to achieve it. I have said before that most of the issues, with growth, other than basic genetics, comes from feeding them the wrong amount of food at the wrong time and not being consistent. I think most people actually underfeed their Koi but also don't understand when it is most important to feed. Temperature is very, very important for this to work though as Koi DO NOT process food in colder water. 70% of what Koi should consume comes in a period of the warmest months. This is usually from July to October.

rainblood
01-19-2012, 10:19 AM
Does this mean to feed light until July?

And then pound them with food from July - Oct?

rainblood
01-19-2012, 10:19 AM
Mr. Sakai has spent a lot of time experimenting with the growth, and development of his Koi. What he has discovered, I think, applies to all Koi. Developing a cycle is very important but what your goals are, with your Koi, will determine whether or not this is really something that you want to try.
Koi are four season, cold blooded, animals and to have them reach their full potential it is important for you to understand what they need through out the year to achieve it. I have said before that most of the issues, with growth, other than basic genetics, comes from feeding them the wrong amount of food at the wrong time and not being consistent. I think most people actually underfeed their Koi but also don't understand when it is most important to feed. temperature is very, very important for this to work though as Koi DO NOt process food in colder water. 70% of what Koi should consume comes in a period of the warmest months. This is usually from July to October.

:pffft: Jinx

Russell Peters
01-19-2012, 10:36 AM
Does this mean to feed light until July?

And then pound them with food from July - Oct?

One of the most important things Mr. Sakai points out is that female Koi can not direct any energy towards growth until the spawning season is over. This is at the end of June. Therefore, if you over feed your Koi, from April to June, then they will just develop eggs. A female Koi that has developed eggs will not grow well that growing season as she will develop eggs and then turn all of her energy towards absorbing the eggs.
It is important to feed very lightly from March to the end of June. If you feed you Koi enough to survive they will not develop eggs. If they do not develop eggs then they will grow very well from July to October. During these four months it is very important to increase the oxygen level in your pond and to feed them often. It would be best to feed them many times during the day rather than feeding them a lot a few times a day. They can only process so much at one time and the rest is just waste.
The growing season for Koi starts in July and is determined by the end of the spawning season.

Russell Peters
01-19-2012, 10:47 AM
From Mr. Sakai


Autumn / Winter Annual Cycle


Water temperature in the pond varies from region to region. Nonetheless, for all regions one can expect the water temperature to go down starting in mid-September. Coinciding with this time of the year and drop in water temperature, Beni starts to increase its intensity. A large Koi is not known to develop well simply by the continued practice of usual feeding methods from winter to early spring.

What is most remarkable is that even if a large Koi is kept in a heated pond during the winter time, and then transferred to a mud pond to spend the spring and summer months, at the harvest time in autumn, the effect of such pampering on the fish will not be particularly impressive. The change of seasons, the natural environment, are all responsible for the development of a healthy and beautiful fish.

The natural environment with its seasonal changes, especially the cold winter, develops toughness and natural survival instinct in the Nihsiki Koi. These experiences will elicit habits of eating in the summer to store energy and strength to survive through the winter months. Moreover, it learns to develop the appropriate body mass for its age, again, in preparation for the winter. A critical point here to remember is, when the water temperature is low, it is best to provide food with reduced protein content and the total quantity restricted.We will talk more about it in the future.

Animals that hibernate instinctively know how to prepare for the winter and store energy to survive. They are all occupied to consume food in the summer to store enough reserves to survive the winter. A proper winter experience for the large Koi is very important for its development. For a cold-blooded animal such as the Koi, water temperature is of particular importance. The Nishiki Koi must sleep or less active in the winter. This is determined by nature. To go against it, and keep the fish in a very warm pond in the winter, will upset its bodily functions and balance.

The overprotected Koi is certain to disappoint the hobbyist in the fall harvest. If resourceful enough, one could experiment to see the differences between a Koi that experienced cold winter and a koi that did not. Even if these two differently cared fish are kept in the same mud pond over the summer and then their development compared at the harvest time in the fall, results will be as explained above.

In terms of Tosai, however, it does not have eggs and it is good to keep them in warm water and develop its size quickly. By doing so, one can see its potential quickly. Good Koi becomes beautiful and becomes very attractive quickly.

rainblood
01-19-2012, 11:15 AM
One of the most important things Mr. Sakai points out is that female Koi can not direct any energy towards growth until the spawning season is over. This is at the end of June. Therefore, if you over feed your Koi, from April to June, then they will just develop eggs. A female Koi that has developed eggs will not grow well that growing season as she will develop eggs and then turn all of her energy towards absorbing the eggs.
It is important to feed very lightly from March to the end of June. If you feed you Koi enough to survive they will not develop eggs. If they do not develop eggs then they will grow very well from July to October. During these four months it is very important to increase the oxygen level in your pond and to feed them often. It would be best to feed them many times during the day rather than feeding them a lot a few times a day. They can only process so much at one time and the rest is just waste.
The growing season for Koi starts in July and is determined by the end of the spawning season.

Hey, I bought an automatic feeder :smirk:

I'll be able to test out this theory in the summer :yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:

Russell Peters
01-19-2012, 11:16 AM
Hey, I bought an automatic feeder :smirk:

I'll be able to test out this theory in the summer :yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:

:thumb::clap:

Russell Peters
01-19-2012, 11:25 AM
I think it's important to note that one of the things Mr. Sakai is saying is Koi will do better, with luster and growth, if given the four seasons rather than being kept warm and fed all year round. There is something about exposing them to the cold that helps with their strength and beauty that they can't get from constant warmth and feeding. He has grown Koi both ways to study what happens. Koi kept warm and fed all year can put on good growth but over a long period if time they never exceed what there siblings achieve and, he states, that the siblings that are allowed to experience the four seasons do much better in the long run.
This brings up an intersting question. What do you do if you live in a warmer climate? I have recently been asked this by several of my customers and will ask Mr. Sakai when I see him in a few weeks.

Russell Peters
01-19-2012, 12:44 PM
Bump

MikeS
01-19-2012, 02:20 PM
Good stuff. looking forward to Mr. Sakai's answer

KatieVL
01-19-2012, 02:33 PM
I really would like to know how to handle feeding in year round warm water. My fish are only cold for about 3 weeks of the year. The water temp are optimal for growth in the fall and spring. This year I am giving them their high protein food during that time. The summers are quite warm, so I am going to lightly feed wheat based food. Previously I just fed less of the blackwater gold during the summer. Will the high summer water temp alter their spawning cycles?

Russell Peters
01-19-2012, 02:56 PM
I really would like to know how to handle feeding in year round warm water. My fish are only cold for about 3 weeks of the year. The water temp are optimal for growth in the fall and spring. This year I am giving them their high protein food during that time. The summers are quite warm, so I am going to lightly feed wheat based food. Previously I just fed less of the blackwater gold during the summer. Will the high summer water temp alter their spawning cycles?

Why would you cut back feeding in the warmer summer months? That is when they need the most food. You should feed them as much as they, and your system, can handle from July to October. You should only feed high protein foods in the warmest 4 - 8 weeks of that period of time going to a lower protein food as you get closer to October. Wheat germ food is for the cooler months.
If you have your Koi on a feeding schedule then their spawning season should be between late April and the end of June. I would take you coldest 3 week period and extend it, either direction(I know you can't control the weather) by not feeding a few weeks before and a few weeks after that point in time to see how that works. Again, I'll see what I can find out from Mr. Sakai.

icu2
01-19-2012, 04:16 PM
A lot about females and egg development is talked about, but does the same apply to getting the best from males?

I'd also like to get one of the self feeders... will the fish know instinctively know to eat that 70% between July and October,
and not other times? Should it only be used certain months?

Thanks for the great articles! :thumb:

Russell Peters
01-19-2012, 04:32 PM
A lot about females and egg development is talked about, but does the same apply to getting the best from males?

I'd also like to get one of the self feeders... will the fish know instinctively know to eat that 70% between July and October,
and not other times? Should it only be used certain months?

Thanks for the great articles! :thumb:

Males are not revered like the females so most of all the information I get is geered toward females. Having said that, males will respond in the same matter to the feeding regime. It is really up to you to provide the food at the right times for your Koi. if you develop a feeding schedule, and you have the proper temperatures, your Koi will adapt and eat more when they need to. You may not be able to leave it up to the Koi to determine the right amounts although they will slow down when it gets cooler.
It would be intersting to see what happens if you do leave them to their own devices. You could moniter how much food they use each week and see if they do follow a similar course. Warmer months I would think you would be filling up the feeder more often than the cooloer months.

koiman1950
01-19-2012, 05:02 PM
Great info Russ. After having discussed this with you and Mr. Sakai in the past, I have been doing this type of feeding scheduling for the last 3 years. I have many females that are in the 4-8 year old range, and not one of them has become egg-laden as a result. The best suggestion you mention has to do with temperatures in various parts of the country. Not everyone will be able to follow Mr. Sakai's recommendations to the letter. Just like bonsai, when trying to apply the seasonal schedules for re-potting, training and watering, you have to adapt those schedules to your own global location.

The information concerning increased oxygen levels during warmer months can't be overemphasized!

Mike

KatieVL
01-19-2012, 08:56 PM
Why would you cut back feeding in the warmer summer months? That is when they need the most food. You should feed them as much as they, and your system, can handle from July to October. You should only feed high protein foods in the warmest 4 - 8 weeks of that period of time going to a lower protein food as you get closer to October. Wheat germ food is for the cooler months.
If you have your Koi on a feeding schedule then their spawning season should be between late April and the end of June. I would take you coldest 3 week period and extend it, either direction(I know you can't control the weather) by not feeding a few weeks before and a few weeks after that point in time to see how that works. Again, I'll see what I can find out from Mr. Sakai.

In the summer months my water is very warm, even with full shade over it. My pond runs 85-90 during the summer. I'm in S. Florida. Much of the time my fish barely want to eat anyways when it is hot, so I was thinking of switching to an easier to digest food at that time. Winter is when my water stays that lovely 68-72 degrees.

icu2
01-19-2012, 09:24 PM
And I'm at the other end of the spectrum... I'm thinking I should start heating in April-June to slowly raise it to 70*.
Honestly, last couple years I had less than 2 weeks that the pond ever came close to 70*, much less maintaining it. :rolleyes:

Russell Peters
01-20-2012, 10:53 AM
In the summer months my water is very warm, even with full shade over it. My pond runs 85-90 during the summer. I'm in S. Florida. Much of the time my fish barely want to eat anyways when it is hot, so I was thinking of switching to an easier to digest food at that time. Winter is when my water stays that lovely 68-72 degrees.

You are correct in not feeding when your water is 85-90 degrees. A feeding cycle may be difficult to come up with for you but I imagine it is possible. I think you need to find a period, when the water is cooler, when they don't get fed. I will try to get Mr. Sakai's take on this.

Russell Peters
01-20-2012, 10:54 AM
And I'm at the other end of the spectrum... I'm thinking I should start heating in April-June to slowly raise it to 70*.
Honestly, last couple years I had less than 2 weeks that the pond ever came close to 70*, much less maintaining it. :rolleyes:

If you can heat, to create a better growing season, I would.

TODDER
01-20-2012, 12:13 PM
I have a problem during the time period from July-Oct, my pond gets hot. Very hot. I'm doing waterchange out daily at that time. Temps are between 85 and 90. I need a shade sail for this time period......but then again, I need alot of stuff when it comes to this hobbie.:rolleyes:

What should a guy (or girl) do when it comes to packing on the food during this time if you have a hot pond???

Russell Peters
01-20-2012, 12:16 PM
I have a problem during the time period from July-Oct, my pond gets hot. Very hot. I'm doing waterchange out daily at that time. Temps are between 85 and 90. I need a shade sail for this time period......but then again, I need alot of stuff when it comes to this hobbie.:rolleyes:

What should a guy (or girl) do when it comes to packing on the food during this time if you have a hot pond???

You can't, it's too hot to feed at those temperatures. I know some people that have installed chillers on their ponds to help.

From Toshio Sakai


When water temperature rises near 86F (30C). Nishiki Koi food consumption diminishes.

TODDER
01-20-2012, 12:22 PM
I'm guessing changing my feeding schedule to just before the hot season would do me no good.

Russell Peters
01-20-2012, 12:59 PM
I'm guessing changing my feeding schedule to just before the hot season would do me no good.

I have no idea. Are you reading the other posts in here? KatieVL asked the same questions as you and I told her I would talk to Mr. Sakai to see what he has to say.:D:

Russell Peters
01-20-2012, 01:00 PM
in the summer months my water is very warm, even with full shade over it. My pond runs 85-90 during the summer. I'm in s. Florida. Much of the time my fish barely want to eat anyways when it is hot, so i was thinking of switching to an easier to digest food at that time. Winter is when my water stays that lovely 68-72 degrees.


you are correct in not feeding when your water is 85-90 degrees. A feeding cycle may be difficult to come up with for you but i imagine it is possible. I think you need to find a period, when the water is cooler, when they don't get fed. I will try to get mr. Sakai's take on this.


i have a problem during the time period from july-oct, my pond gets hot. Very hot. I'm doing waterchange out daily at that time. Temps are between 85 and 90. I need a shade sail for this time period......but then again, i need alot of stuff when it comes to this hobbie.:rolleyes:

What should a guy (or girl) do when it comes to packing on the food during this time if you have a hot pond???



:d:

rainblood
01-20-2012, 01:01 PM
I have no idea. Are you reading the other posts in here? KatieVl asked the same questions as you and I told her I would talk to Mr. Sakai to see what he has to say.:D:

So, if this is the case, how do you handle feeding if you live in a tropical climate? :scratch:

Russell Peters
01-20-2012, 01:04 PM
So, if this is the case, how do you handle feeding if you live in a tropical climate? :scratch:

I've got your tropical climate right here.:club:

rainblood
01-20-2012, 01:05 PM
:lmao:

KatieVL
01-20-2012, 01:22 PM
I would have a hard time explaining to the spouse that the koi need to have a chiller installed. Just sayin' .....that might be pushing it a bit far.:behindsofa:

KatieVL
01-20-2012, 01:34 PM
I just looked up pool chillers and they are not that expensive. Maybe I can sneak it into the pit. Less than 2k for the large size. They drop the temp 10-12 degrees. That would be perfect during the summer.http://www.lesliespool.com/Home/Heating-Solar-Cooling/Cooling/85200.html

TODDER
01-20-2012, 02:41 PM
I have no idea. Are you reading the other posts in here? KatieVL asked the same questions as you and I told her I would talk to Mr. Sakai to see what he has to say.:D:

Must of missed it Russ. Sorry

Russell Peters
01-20-2012, 07:07 PM
Must of missed it Russ. Sorry



No problem.:D:

Dravin
01-20-2012, 07:20 PM
Not to put anyone's name out there that doesn't want to be out there, but I do know one individual that changed their feeding pattern to what Russell is recommending last year, and fed them 12 (I think) times a day between July and October. He did not feed them early on in May and and June and he still got 10 inches of growth on one of his younger Yamabuki's in just those 4 months. So if you're skeptical about how much a fish can grow if you wait until July to feed them, this would tell you that there is no concern with this at all.

I've honestly never tried to wait so long myself so I can't give results, but I can guarantee you that I will be doing this same feeding scheme this year based on the people that have tried this feeding pattern and the results they get.

powerman
01-26-2012, 09:42 PM
good information, Russell

rainblood
01-27-2012, 11:11 AM
So...what are the benchmarks for growth?

I read that you posted 12-14" was normal for Nisai if not "pushed"...
And then there's people that can get 10" of growth in a season..whats normal? Whats healthy?

How much growth is too much? Do you shorten the life of your fish if you push it too far?

Russell Peters
01-27-2012, 11:26 AM
So...what are the benchmarks for growth?

I read that you posted 12-14" was normal for Nisai if not "pushed"...
And then there's people that can get 10" of growth in a season..whats normal? Whats healthy?

How much growth is too much? Do you shorten the life of your fish if you push it too far?

Every Koi will be different. Some will do well with a lot of growth and some will fall apart. Those that fall apart don't always fall apart when they are not pushed. The bottom line is this, whether you get a lot of growth up front or you let the Koi take it's time, there will be no difference in the final outcome.
If you take two Koi, from 32" parents, and they are both 12" Nisai they will both have the same potential. You could push one of them to grow quickly and have it reach that 32" by the time it is Gosai (5 years old) and you could let the other one take it's time. If the other one takes 7 years to get there, it will still get there, but you will be more likely to have that Koi reach it's full potential for developement with out failing.
Pushing Koi for growth tests their limits and sometimes pushes them over the edge.

rainblood
01-27-2012, 11:29 AM
Every Koi will be different. Some will do well with a lot of growth and some will fall apart. Those that fall apart don't always fall apart when they are not pushed. The bottom line is this, whether you get a lot of growth up front or you let the Koi take it's time, there will be no difference in the final outcome.
If you take two Koi, from 32" parents, and they are both 12" Nisai they will both have the same potential. You could push one of them to grow quickly and have it reach that 32" by the time it is Gosai (5 years old) and you could let the other one take it's time. If the other one takes 7 years to get there, it will still get there, but you will be more likely to have that Koi reach it's full potential for developement with out failing.
Pushing Koi for growth tests their limits and sometimes pushes them over the edge.

Thanks

koiman1950
01-28-2012, 07:15 PM
Hey Russ

I thought Yonsai was 4 yrs old and Gosai was 5 yrs old!?

andres58
01-28-2012, 08:22 PM
good reading.................... I'll try to practice less feeding during Mar-Jun and more and often during Jul-Oct. I hope this will prevent the females from producing eggs.......last year was a frenzy......