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Neli
09-19-2011, 09:19 AM
I have almost finished The construction of the filtration in my pond. My bakki is ready too.
Now I have a problem. I dont know what to put inside the bakki.
Here I can not find anything to buy for Koi, and if I have to order from abroad, it will cost me US9000 to order on line.
I washed and collected some little little stones (limestone) 5-10mm in size, which I thought of putting on the bottom line of crates. But I dont know how good it will be, and thought of putting something else on the top 2 line of crates.
Do U know of some thing else easily found that I can use as a bakki for my media?
I have this black half inch irrigation plastic (polly) pipe, that I thought of chopping into peaces of 1/3 of an inch. Saw in SA a fish farmer that was using something similar for filtration, but I did not ask if it can be used for bakki. He was chopping some kid of a polypipe with a Y inside a bit less than half inch in diameter, and using it for bio filter media.
I can not find that type of pipe with a Y inside, but found just plain pipe, like all pipes inside.
If I chop it, do U think it can work as bakki media?
Can U recommend something else that is not hard to find here.

lukef
09-19-2011, 10:14 AM
I used porous "lava rock" for years and it did a more than adequate job. I think it is actually the waste from the commercial production of clay bricks. But is sold as landscaping material here in the USA.

lukef
09-19-2011, 10:15 AM
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&fr=slv8-mdp&va=lava+rock


I think you should be able to locate a source near you...and it is the least expensive acceptable media for Porous media showers that I know of.

Neli
09-19-2011, 11:24 AM
I went to our cement factory, and saw the MD. They have broken kiln bricks that tumble down that they trow away, and he could give me, but their PH is 12 and with my PH in the pond 9 I dont want any think else contributing to the PH. I suspect the ones from the brick factory will have high PH too. But best is to go and check. I will let U know.
What do U think about cutting the pipe?
Do U think it can work?

Neli
09-19-2011, 11:26 AM
What if I brake some red bricks?????? I am desperate.

glassbird
09-19-2011, 05:42 PM
I did some research on this very subject last spring when I was building a shower filter for my little ponds. The general consensus on several web sites was that real lava rock (frequently sold to go in the bottom of grills for some reason) was not a terrible option if used for just one or two seasons. It is cheap, but the pores will clog eventually and can not be cleaned out. The real winner, in many peoples opinions, for DIY media in a shower type filter (which is what a bakki filter is in essence) is nylon pot scrubbies. The problem here is that pot scrubbies are called different things in different parts of the world. I am not referring to shower puffs, but the heavier sort of of nylon balls used to wash dishes.

I used lava rock in the bottom of my DIY shower filter this year (mostly because I already had it on hand) and filled the rest of the barrel with pot scrubbies from several local dollar stores. They can be easily cleaned and stored at the end of the season, and did a very nice job this year of preventing my usual green water bloom.

lukef
09-19-2011, 11:37 PM
I disagree with glassbird. a proper Porous media shower has a high flow rate and a good amount of drop from bin to bin so the media should be self-cleaning. Mine was very clean after two years.
If you go to a brick kiln the lava rock is called "clinkers"..it is not the broken bricks but a waste product from making bricks. and the holes are where the beneficial bacteria colonize and live and therefore when those pores "clog" it is a good thing...

Neli
09-20-2011, 01:17 AM
Thanks for the replies! I have also been researching the subject for some time now.
I know many people that use lava rock, and clinker. They are all happy with it. The trick and the important necessity is to pump mechanically prefiltered clean water over the bakki.
Bakki should never get dirty water that clogs the media, bio film is a different issue and that is not clogging.
Now I am going to post some pictures of the clinker I can get here and some scrubbers. Can U tell me if that is what U mean?
My only quarrel with clinker is the PH. It is off the charts, and since My PH is high Iam scared to use it.
I am thinking of soaking it in acid to neutralize the loose ash on it , wash it and then try and see how the ph will be.
This is the media I have available so far. Not sure which one I can use here. Please advise.
clinker
broken bricks
crushed stones
cut half inch polly pipe into half inch segments
plastic shavings
I was hoping some one will come with some better idea. Which ones of this I can use?
Picture bellow is of the pipe I bought for my garden irrigation, that I can chop.

Neli
09-20-2011, 01:28 AM
Picture 2 above is what I call plastic shavings. Can it be used in a shower?
Picture 3 are recycled small plastic balls I found at a factory.
Picture 3 is plastick items broken before being turned into the balls above it.
Small picture is the scrubbies. Is that what U mean?
The pictures here are of the clinker I found. It is hard almost glass like, by product in a kiln burned coal.

lukef
09-20-2011, 09:31 AM
No. In a bakki shower it is not necesary to prefilter the water. I didn't... the force of the water hitting the rock will break up the stuff, and the flow rate washes the bio-film build up off the rock. The holes actually help because they provide housing/sanctuary for seed bacteria to continue to recoat the rock.
There is only one way to see if the odd lava rock" you've found will work///make a mini-system and test it with some fish. Until it is proven that the stuff will leach into the water and harm the fish it is the best choice.

Neli
09-20-2011, 02:26 PM
Thanks! I just soaked it in water for 2 days and measured the PH, which was very high.

webted
09-20-2011, 02:34 PM
Hi Neli:

Most people pre-filter their water before running it over a Bakki Shower. If you have a bunch of algea, duckweed, etc.. it's going to accumulate on the top layer of media far faster than the water will break it down.

Since most Bakki showers are multi-chamber affairs, I would try a mixed approach. Use the plastic shavings in the top bin (easier to clean if ever it needs it) and maybe limit the clinker to a single bin. Before going farther with the klinker, I'd bust some up as finely as possible, and then pour the powder into some of your water. Test the pH before and after, give it a sniff test, and then re-check after a few days.

Those little Mercedes-Benz bits of plastic are awfully reminiscent of Kaldnes media. Does it float, or is it heavier than water? Have you considered chopping up (sigh...) a bunch and making a moving bed filter? Either that or an upflow-type barrel filter?

-t

quinten
09-26-2011, 04:00 AM
Hi there Neli ,

How are you doing?

How is ur bakki shower doing?

Neli
09-26-2011, 04:25 AM
Q darling! U have joined Koiphen! Welcome! People here are lovely, kind, helpful and U will love it here.
I hope to finish the bakki today.With all the election violence here I had no workers.Will post pictures soon.

webted
09-26-2011, 10:22 AM
Hi Neli:

Sorry, I didn't realize until re-reading that the Mercedes-Benz bits of plastic (the pipe with the "Y" inside) was the SA fish farmer's pipe, and not your own. Too bad, that stuff looks like it would work quite well in a moving bed type of filter.

-t

Neli
09-26-2011, 03:11 PM
What if I use the same pipe minus The Y inside. Do U think it will work?
I can cut it to peaces.

Saraiva
09-29-2011, 01:54 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_qd7FPDWAZJk/THaPAYDuN1I/AAAAAAAAB7E/aVd7E57c7QY/s400/bob1.jpg

Neli
09-30-2011, 12:33 AM
Luis,
Thanks Darling. The picture says it all. They look very good, but I failed to find them here.
Thanks for trying to help!

Saraiva
09-30-2011, 07:08 AM
http://blog.tuda.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/heatedhairrollers-3.jpg

Neli
10-01-2011, 01:59 PM
Nice! But here people have curly hair and they use electric curlers to straighten it.
So no one is selling this plastic curlers.

lukef
10-01-2011, 03:46 PM
neli Please find a Brick kiln...not a cement block maker...real clay bricks...they are cheap and low-tech so they have to be somewhere near you.

Neli
10-02-2011, 01:07 AM
Thanks,
There is a place somewhere outside lusaka that makes clay bricks. I dont think it will be a problem to find it. Going on an expedition on monday.
I have managed to cut 100 meters of 1/3 inch pipe. Going to make a picture so U see it.
Thanks for thinking of my problems.
Will report shortly.

lukef
10-02-2011, 04:03 PM
neli
post pics of the brick factory..it'd be interesting us men...we always like to see factories

Neli
10-02-2011, 06:18 PM
OK! Promice!

Neli
10-04-2011, 04:55 PM
Luke,
This is for U. I dont know if this is what U wanted to see but this is our only factory in Lusaka. I dont think the temperature reached high levels for it to produce pumice like rock.
I did not find anything apart for ashes, and half burned coal...
But at list I tried and bought some bricks.

lukef
10-04-2011, 10:53 PM
well I am sorry babe. Over here the clinkers/lava rock is waste produced from brick making

Neli
10-05-2011, 04:13 AM
I am still thinking.Where there is a will there is a way. Write now my shower is running just with crushed stones on the bottom line of crates. I am going to put today the pipe I cut into peaces in the second line, and maybe for now shade cloth on the top most layer. It will be better than nothing.Later I ca change it.
It was so funny when I went to the brick factory. It is run by Chinese.We have a new president less than 2 weeks old. He threatened to deal with the chinese that are paying too little salaries. They thought I am journalist, trying to get pictures of their workers working without protective clothing and... Had a hard time convincing them I am not.
Now finally they allowed me inside, but they were watching me like ..... so I had to make a hole on a newspaper and put the camera in the hole to take the pictures, while I was inside the car and my driver was bussy destructing them...It was so funny. They dont know English and it is so hard to explain to them that I need pictures for the forum, and I doubt if they were going to believe me.

lukef
10-05-2011, 10:18 AM
I am still thinking.Where there is a will there is a way. Write now my shower is running just with crushed stones on the bottom line of crates. I am going to put today the pipe I cut into peaces in the second line, and maybe for now shade cloth on the top most layer. It will be better than nothing.Later I ca change it.
It was so funny when I went to the brick factory. It is run by Chinese.We have a new president less than 2 weeks old. He threatened to deal with the chinese that are paying too little salaries. They thought I am journalist, trying to get pictures of their workers working without protective clothing and... Had a hard time convincing them I am not.
Now finally they allowed me inside, but they were watching me like ..... so I had to make a hole on a newspaper and put the camera in the hole to take the pictures, while I was inside the car and my driver was bussy destructing them...It was so funny. They dont know English and it is so hard to explain to them that I need pictures for the forum, and I doubt if they were going to believe me.

That's more interesting than them baking clay.

Neli
10-05-2011, 12:18 PM
At list I had some adventures. And laughed a lot.

Neli
10-06-2011, 10:05 AM
What do U think about this? Do U think it is OK for bakki media or I should cut it larger or maybe in circles ?

lukef
10-06-2011, 10:19 AM
Neli
there is only one way to really know. You are doing it a way I have not seen. It is not just a simple matter of the size, shape or material the media is. It has alot to do with the bioload, the volume of water, the amount of drop the water has before it hits the media, the temperature...even sunshine has an effect

Neli
10-06-2011, 02:50 PM
So I just continue??? OK no choice.
I thought what matter here is the qualities of the media:
material- inert, with lots of surface area, porosity, and able to flow water through without clogging????
The rest of the parameters are part of the filtration's big picture.
I mean here we are comparing media to media...The rest of the factors will be the same for any media.
I have seen pictures here of media...like Rain's media. Something white, round (k1????) with partitions (voids) I was wondering if this can do similar job,though much less efficient.
I have volume to compensate for efficiency.
I hope it will do...

phoman
10-06-2011, 04:01 PM
If possible I'd recommend you rough up the pipes with coarse sand paper before cutting them up into smaller pieces. Not sure how much of a benefit this will bring but at least I know the sanded surface will provide better gripping surface for the bacteria to grow on. I never had to go through the troubles that you face. Lucky for us we live in the US.

lukef
10-06-2011, 04:08 PM
If this is for a PMS then K-1 or other similar material is NOT the correct choice. Kaldness and such are used in fluidized beds, and the shape as well as the weight in relation to water is also a needed characteristic...your media even if the right density may very well "log-jam" and not easily roil.
If you are going to use this in a porous media shower I would pay special attention to the height the water gets to drop before hitting the media. That height gives the water greater speed/force. And that force aids in the tearing aparrt of soft floating particulate and aids in degassing and oxygen absorption.

Neli
10-06-2011, 05:28 PM
OK Thanks Phoman! Will sand paper it at list outside.
Luke,
What is PMS? what I know it to mean is not for filtration.... He he he!
So Kaldness is not good for shower. I did not know That! I thought it can do.
Sorry what is log-jam and roil? In the dictionary it says logs blocking the river. Do U mean the water will rearange them and they will block the flow?Roil it says to make muddy, turbulent? How do I understand that?
Maybe to cut them into rings then. What do U think?
Then U said I need speed of water. That I think I have. Plus my water is mechanically prefiltered before it reaches the shower.
I have not glued yet the spray bar on top. Thought of checking it up first, how it does. I made the holes 10-12mm= a bit less than half inch.Hope that will be OK..or maybe to make them bigger. I have 26 000+- liters going to the shower.
Thanks for the advise.

Saraiva
11-08-2011, 09:22 AM
Can we use this media for Bakki shower?

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/htgsupply/10L_Hydrostone_Gallery1.jpg

Neli
11-09-2011, 03:27 AM
Hi Darling Luis!
I am not sure , but this is what I think:
What do we need from media in bakki?
To be at list a bit heavy (????)
to be inert (not contribute foreign substances)
Not to clog...
and have lots of surface area for bacteria to grow on.....Now I know the one U posted (I am planning to make it my self), it is used in aqua/hydro ponics...and in aquaponics in some cases water from the fish pond is sprayed over it with spray pars, and it operates almost the same as one tier bakki.
So if I have to guess it should be OK, but not 100% sure..
How is your new filtration.
Can U post some pictures... I have finished my filter and started a new pond, He he he!