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Violence.
09-11-2011, 08:21 PM
so i am looking to add to my filtration system. i am not exactly happy with this one at this moment as i believe it isn't cutting the mustard anymore. here is what i have currently. ill be doing this towards the end of the season once my system is shut down for the winter.

currently running

advantage es8500 pump
emperor aquatics 80w HO smart UV
50 gal settling chamber ( want to swap this for seive)
50 gal fluid bed filter
medo 45 air pump
hayward 300lb sand filter retro with sinking beads
easy pro small skimmer box with brush rack and matala matting.


what i would like to do is swap my 50gal settling chamber out for a cetus sieve or a nexus filter for my bottom drain line. and i would like to keep the fluid bed filter on my skimmer line. but not sure this would be adding to much.

any advice on other ways of adding in filtration? more or less looking to get debri out of the water as quickly as possible (sieve) and add in some more fines filtration.

icu2
09-11-2011, 09:02 PM
Like you said, it sounds like the 50g SC is the weak link...
So by your post, I'd do just like you said, add the sieve... and I'd find a spot for a s/g filter for fines...

Skimmer to mb filter is fine... as long as that water is getting well prefiltered before the mb.

And note speed limits for the ES8500... s/g filter = 2000gph
Cetus sieve is something like 4500-5000gph.

Sounds like you have lots of possibilities! :wtg:

Violence.
09-11-2011, 09:20 PM
yea the flow rates was what had me thinking most. if i put the sieve in the bottom drain line, i could keep the 2000-2500 gal flow rate and neither would be over flowed. my skimmer line pulls the rest. i have it all valved down to keep everything flowing good and the way they should.

but if i add the sieve on the bottom drain line, ill need to add to the skimmer line as i would keep the fluid bed on the bottom drain line. so if i did this and added the s/g filter i would need a blower, the s/g filter, and not sure what else i would need.

what i thought about was a roto concepts shower tube on the skimmer line. come out of the skimmer pre filtered, then into the pump, then into the shower tube with a sieve. i think this would help greatly to the skimmer line as well. and i could put that in a tight corner and have it gravity feed directly back into the pond. but then head pressure will become an issue.

birdman
09-12-2011, 08:34 AM
How big is your pond?
How big is your BD line?
How big is your skimmer line?

icu2
09-12-2011, 08:59 AM
...so if i did this and added the s/g filter i would need a blower...

I just use a little shop vac in reverse.

mpageler
09-12-2011, 11:41 AM
In your Hayward filter, do you actually have sinking beads or the replacement Ultra media? If beads, they should provide good fines filtration with proper maintanace. Use of a blower to aid backwashing would be a desirable add-on. Better pre-fitlering via Cetus befor a bead filter also should help your system. You also need to watch the UV flow rate...too much and the UV is not going to fully do it's job.

Violence.
09-12-2011, 09:24 PM
skimmer line is 2"
bottom drain is 4" then it necks down to 3" before the SC
pond is 5000 gallons.

yes the hayward filter has actual black sinking beads in it from aquatic eco. i put them in myself. also the UV line is in a T fashion in line with my waterfall. one line bypasses the UV light and goes straight to the bead filter, the other is valves to control flow through the UV light and is set down to a good flow rate. the light is working as it should. the water is crystal clear. but not as clear and clean as i would like it to be.

icu2
09-13-2011, 12:09 AM
I think the "picture" is still a little blurry... :D:

With one pump, can you post a breakdown of the existing setup? We got 4" BD to 3", and
2" skimmer line... but how (where) are those plumbed to the pumps, and what returns (waterfall, tpr's, etc)
do you have to work with?

Not that I know what the heck to do, but it'll help smarter people suggest route's to take... :clap:

Violence.
09-13-2011, 07:52 PM
bottom drain necks down to 3" at a knife valve, then into the SC. reason it necks to 3" is the fitting through the side of the barrel is 3".

skimmer line comes out of the back of the skimmer and T's into the bottom drain circuit before the pump coming out of my fluid bed filter. this all then goes into the pump. it comes out of the pump to another T with a valve, this valve bypasses the UV light so i can control flow through the UV light. so half goes through the UV light, the rest goes directly to the bead filter.

everything comes out of my bead filter to my big bahama waterfall weir back into the pond. one thing i am considering is 2 things.

1) a bigger pump. this way i can have some room to deal with head pressures.
2) adding a roto shower tube and using the bypass line for the UV light to go to that instead of into the bead filter. this way the line out of the pump hits 2 more filters instead of ALL going into my bead filter.

montwila
09-14-2011, 12:53 AM
All right so just for the cheap seats.

You have a bottom drain (4") choked down to 3" in a settlement chamber that is 1% of the pond? The skimmer has a handfull of brushes t's in before the pump, what size line is it T'ing into? How are you judging your current flow from each source since you mention you have them all valved to balance the flow. Then you have an ES8500 split, part through UV and part directly pushing through a retro pressure filter with no air assisted cleaning currently (as you would have to purchase a blower for SG filter if added) then back to pond via a weir.

So I love the seive and I think you would too. Just keep it clean everyday if possible.
Don't think a settlement chamber that small is helping the cause much. You have to judge that by the detrius present/being removed when flushed.
A few brushes in a skimmer and a retro bead are not providing much bio. So I have to believe your fluid bed is doing most of that. Or you barely use any food.
By the way what is your current fish load?
A S/G will add a lot of bio even though that is not its primary purpose. It will clean up a lot of fines in the water. However they usually are gravity back to the pond.
So your weir is it above pond level or relatively flush?
Instead of a bigger pump. I would take the whole thing apart and make two circuits for redundency on two diffrent electrical circuits. Something like 4" BD>seive>fluid bed>new pump>S/G to pond maybe via pressure returns. Then Skimmer>ES8500>pressure filter (your Hayward) and UV back to the weir.

By the way how does your water return? Is the weir a waterfall? I assume it has some bio too, but I am not familiar with it.

As ICU2 mentions a scematic might help us all up here in the cheap seats.

Monte

birdman
09-14-2011, 06:34 AM
Your ES 8500 is big enough to run everything if you want to stick with one pump. To bad your skimmer line isn't bigger.
I would enlarge the BD line to 4" all the way and run that into a Cetus Sieve. Then come out of that with a 2" single union ball valve. Take your 2" Skimmer line, add a 2" single union ball valve and tee the BD/Sieve line and skimmer line together. Run this into the suction of the ES 8500.
I would personally myself replace the hayword bead filter with two 55 gallon DIY Sand/Gravel filters. Run the outlet of the ES 8500 through your UV and then to your moving bed filter and two S/G filters all in parallel. The ES 8500 will flow enough to supply all three. These three barrel filters would have to be raised enough to be able to gravity flow back to the pond.
The ball valves on the skimmer line and BD line after the sieve would be used to balance the flow between the two.

mpageler
09-14-2011, 10:26 AM
I like the option that Birdman layed out for you, especially in running the MB and 2 S/G in parellel...no reason to force the entire pump flow through the MB. While I use and like bead filters, if I had the option of going S/G, I probably would.

One of the previous responders suggested BD>Sieve>MB>pump For a gravity fed Cetus Sieve, it's outlet has to be pumped and not gravity fed to another tank. If you tried to gravity feed out of the Cetus, it will just fill completely to the pond water level. I know when I was considering a Cetus and planning the rest of the filtering, I had to keep reminding myself of this. You'll really enjoy the Cetus in that you don't have to do daily maintenance and that the accumulated waste is pulled out of the water flow, unlike in a SC.

Violence.
09-14-2011, 09:02 PM
problem being is i do not have room where my filter layout is to add 3 raised barrel filters. this is why i wanted to add the shower filter in a corner on my deck tucked away. i can fit the cetus sieve no problem, and i would have to move my moving bed filter. this is also why i want to keep the bead filter as it is tucked away hidden underneath my deck. if i remove the SC and put in a sieve i also need to figure out how to swap these and make the line 4" all the way without draining the pond. as i have nowhere to put all my fish during the changes being made.

birdman
09-15-2011, 07:11 AM
Are you going to have a waterfall? Can S/G filters be hidden behind the waterfall?

mpageler
09-15-2011, 10:18 AM
No problem in using the bead, they can provide excellent fines filtration. Obviously their downside is additional head loss to flow rates. As I mentioned before, I would add a blower to aid in backwashing.

Violence.
09-18-2011, 06:51 PM
what i would like to do is add the following. i would like to add 2 cetus sieve's into the system. one after my skimmer which can easily be plumbed in, and one on my bottom drain side of things. i would like to pump out of those from my es8500 into 2 seperate systems basically.

1 side i would like to go into my bead filter, then from my bead filter back to my waterfall. my UV light would be on this leg.

2nd side im still trying to figure out how exactly to do this side of things. i would like to add my fluid bed filter into the mix and a roto inovations shower tube. but not quite sure how i could do this.

i could also run one aqua forte sieve to replace both cetus sieves but the price is about the same.

ponyboy2442
09-18-2011, 07:16 PM
If I'm understanding correctly u can't use an 8500 pump after a Cetus max is 4500 pump
Look at new advantage bead they have very small head loose

Violence.
09-18-2011, 07:58 PM
i wont be changing my bead filter as it works fine. i really dont have any head issues. and i will be regulating the cetus down to around 4000gph, and the rest from my skimmer line.

what i might do is the one cetus sieve on the bottom drain line. keep my skimmer box setup how it is to pre filter before my pump, then add a roto innovations shower filter with a sieve, and send that output into my fluid bed filter, then dump that line directly back into my pond or waterfall weir.

majederr
09-18-2011, 10:27 PM
Wait a minute didn't you just get married this weekend?/ What you doing on koiphen:D:

birdman
09-19-2011, 07:05 AM
If I'm understanding correctly u can't use an 8500 pump after a Cetus max is 4500 pump
Look at new advantage bead they have very small head loose

But you can use it off two Cetus Sieves.

Violence.
09-19-2011, 07:44 AM
i had thought about that also. running 2 sieve filters. and just removing the brushes from my skimmer and the matala mat from it. and use the skimmer box as a giant leaf net basically. then send that into a cetus. i will definately have to send the shower tube into the fluid bed if i do it. i just dont know how i would do that. unless i come into the fluid bed and let that dump back into the pond. not sure how that will work.

Violence.
09-19-2011, 09:34 AM
i am also looking into a Nexus 300 unit that isnt to far away. not sure if my medo 45 will run that as far as air goes.

moodymike
09-19-2011, 09:55 AM
A 45 is too small to run a Nexus 300.

Violence.
09-19-2011, 09:59 AM
what would you reccomend for a air pump for a nexus 300?

Zac Penn
09-19-2011, 10:01 AM
I would stay away from the nexus units. There is a reason why hobbyists are selling them so cheaply!

Zac

moodymike
09-19-2011, 10:24 AM
from my understanding, pump size is determined by how much K1 you are using.
I have a 210 and I use a airpump 75 with 50L of K1.
As far as what Zac is saying... I love my nexus. While it isnt the best for fines.... it is a good compact unit, that is
very quick and easy to clean.

Look at the ea link I posted to see recommended pump sizing.
http://www.evolutionaqua.com/acatalog/Nexus_Eazy_200_300.html

Violence.
09-19-2011, 11:57 AM
i think i have a good game plan going with Zac at this point. i like a few ideas he threw my way. now just trying to figure out how i need to lay everything out and how everything will fit. plus trying to sell the 5 grand worth of audio stuff i have in my truck at this point also. need funds!

Violence.
09-19-2011, 01:14 PM
heres a video description of my layout. how everything is setup. and a few things i would like to change.

http://s1096.photobucket.com/albums/g322/Vi0lence/?action=view&current=2011-09-19_12-33-16_607.mp4