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Russell Peters
09-01-2011, 11:14 AM
Hiban


The ideal Hiban (the base that holds the red skin pigment) which holds Hi (red pigment) must be devoid of patchy irregularities. This type of Hi quality is analogous to a deep paint job: a surface that is coated with numerous layers of red paint would take on a deeply saturated color. During inspection this quality must not be overlooked.

One can judge the quality of Hiban by examining the presence of Sashikomi. It appears as a pinkish border around the Hiban in the direction of the head. Sashikomi is an excellent indicator of the depth of a Hiban. Because Hi penetrates deep into the skin, the white skin color outside the Hiban turns pink to the extent of the depth of Hi underneath.

It is important to choose a Koi with strong Sashikomi. Hiban without Sashikomi could potentially breakdown and disappear. The dorsal side (tail side) of Hiban, is called Kiwa. It is preferable that Kiwa is not vague and irregular, but solid and clearly defined. Properly formed, high quality Beni is elastic, and will have a tendency to contract as the fish grows. Subsequently, the Beni will be pulled toward the root of scales.

This pulling will create the round edge Kiwa, called Maruzome, even if the Kiwa might be undefined and irregular at first. Maruzome is an indicator of a high quality Beni. One must look for Beni and Kiwa and determine if these formations might contract with growth. Maruzome Kiwa cannot be created unless the Beni is elastic.

For the most part, the formation of Hiban is completed in 7~8 years. After its peak period, Hiban starts to deteriorate and sometimes comes apart. This phenomenon is noted usually after a summer time growth period where the fish were well fed.

If the Beni quality is not determined correctly, the investment will be short-lived, not more than 7-8 years. Interestingly, many prize-winning Koi have this type of Hiban. A Beni that develops quickly will have a short life span.

If the Beni is not well mixed and kneaded into its plate, the Hiban will break down and the Beni disappear. As Beni becomes dull and the Hiban deteriorates, white areas at the ends of scales are formed. This leaves behind a patchy, irregular Beni. It is not uncommon for a Koi with much luster and shininess to recover from this tired condition and regain its color and quality of its Hiban.

This is a quote from INC and I thought it would be a good way to get started. I will post their info and then we can follow this up with questions and I will have more info and pictures as we go.

cindy
09-01-2011, 11:47 AM
Pics please. I'm a visual learning.

Russell Peters
09-01-2011, 12:09 PM
Pics please. I'm a visual learning.

Here is one on a Nisai Kohaku about 18". This is not a finished Koi either.

cindy
09-01-2011, 12:28 PM
So smooth it looks scaleless

cindy
09-01-2011, 12:42 PM
So is a sharp clean edge better than a pattern?

http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?9751-Pattern...Kiwa-Sashi&highlight=flowery%20kohaku

Dravin
09-01-2011, 01:59 PM
I hope I'm not offending anyone so please don't take this personally if this is your koi, but to me the koi cindy put up there is terrible. It may have some form of Maruzome kiwa, but it looks like the beni is to thin to fill in each scale all the way so you get a very jagged edge. If I were selecting koi, I would definitely be passing over it. Would that be the right thing to do?

Russell Peters
09-01-2011, 05:19 PM
So is a sharp clean edge better than a pattern?

http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?9751-Pattern...Kiwa-Sashi&highlight=flowery%20kohaku


The best way to see this edge is to examine the trailing edge of a pattern element in a kohaku. Even in young kohaku, this trailing edge or kiwa should be very sharp. Sharp kiwa is an appreciation point and it is worth bearing in mind that blurring of the kiwa is taken as a sign of weak or fading red. So when selecting a young kohaku, look at the[/COLOR]



With all due respect this information, provided on that thread by Dr. Phillips is outdated and wrong. I would like to keep these threads to the information from Toshio Sakai. After all, he is the one most responsible for the quality of Koi we have today.

If the Beni is good quality elastic Beni then the edge will not be sharp.

Russell Peters
09-01-2011, 05:22 PM
I hope I'm not offending anyone so please don't take this personally if this is your koi, but to me the koi cindy put up there is terrible. It may have some form of Maruzome kiwa, but it looks like the beni is to thin to fill in each scale all the way so you get a very jagged edge. If I were selecting koi, I would definitely be passing over it. Would that be the right thing to do?



In this case I suspect that you would be correct but, I will be discussing the difference between weak Beni and beni that is changing, or receding, to form Maruzome Kiwa. Here is a pic of Beni that is receding to form Maruzome Kiwa.

The Maruzome Kiwa has already formed on the lower scales and it will form on the upper scales.

Russell Peters
09-01-2011, 05:37 PM
So is a sharp clean edge better than a pattern?

http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?9751-Pattern...Kiwa-Sashi&highlight=flowery%20kohaku

Try to keep pattern out of the equation. The information about Hiban has to do with the quality of beni and how to recognize it. This is why I showed the Kohaku in post #3. To most it is a very dull pattern but it is an example of very high quality Beni.

Russell Peters
09-01-2011, 06:06 PM
There are different types (colors) of Beni. Some are considered better than others but, for the time being, the important thing to learn is how to recognize quality Beni. Quality Beni, no matter the color, no matter what stage of growth it is in should have what is called Nerikome. Nerikome is Beni that is, as Mr. Sakai says, evenly mixed. What this means is that it should be even through out the enitre Hiban plate. If the Beni is light or dark it must be the same through out. The picture in post #3 is of a Kohaku that was taken in February where the Beni had time to fill in after it came out of the fall harvest. When Koi grow very rapidly the beni stretches on the scale because the pigment does not grow as quickly as the body of the Koi. During the winter time, when the Koi's body is not growing, the Beni will fill in the entire scale. Here is a picture of a Koi that has "stretched" and the Beni is light on the perimeter of the scales but darker in the middle. Even though most of the scale is light it is all the same, it has Nerikome. The darker center of the scales are known as "stars".


Here is a closeup of a Hiban plate that shows the growth this Koi went through. You can see how much lighter the scale is around the perimter. The second picture shows the darker "star" in the center of the scale.

rainblood
09-01-2011, 06:15 PM
There are different types (colors) of Beni. Some are considered better than others but, for the time being, the important thing to learn is how to recognize quality Beni. Quality Beni, no matter the color, no matter what stage of growth it is in should have what is called Nerikome. Nerikome is Beni that is, as Mr. Sakai says, evenly mixed. What this means is that it should be even through out the enitre Hiban plate. If the Beni is light or dark it must be the same through out. There is an exception though. The picture in post #3 is of a Kohaku that was taken in February where the Beni had time to fill in after it came out of the fall harvest. When Koi grow very rapidly the beni stretches on the scale because the pigment does not grow as quickly as the body of the Koi. During the winter time, when the Koi's body is not growing, the Beni will fill in the entire scale. Here is a picture of a Koi that has "stretched" and the Beni is light on the perimeter of the scales but darker in the middle. Even though most of the scale is light it is all the same, it has Nerikome. The darker center of the scales are known as "stars".


I will post pictures and more info later.:D:

Donde esta?

Russell Peters
09-01-2011, 10:01 PM
Originally Posted by Russell Peters
There are different types (colors) of Beni. Some are considered better than others but, for the time being, the important thing to learn is how to recognize quality Beni. Quality Beni, no matter the color, no matter what stage of growth it is in should have what is called Nerikome. Nerikome is Beni that is, as Mr. Sakai says, evenly mixed. What this means is that it should be even through out the enitre Hiban plate. If the Beni is light or dark it must be the same through out. There is an exception though. The picture in post #3 is of a Kohaku that was taken in February where the Beni had time to fill in after it came out of the fall harvest. When Koi grow very rapidly the beni stretches on the scale because the pigment does not grow as quickly as the body of the Koi. During the winter time, when the Koi's body is not growing, the Beni will fill in the entire scale. Here is a picture of a Koi that has "stretched" and the Beni is light on the perimeter of the scales but darker in the middle. Even though most of the scale is light it is all the same, it has Nerikome. The darker center of the scales are known as "stars".


I will post pictures and more info later.:D:


Donde esta?

:snap: Do you ever pay attention?

Russell Peters
09-01-2011, 10:03 PM
Here is a picture of another Sanke to show the enntire body and Hiban plates. This was taken at INC, February 2009.

Russell Peters
09-01-2011, 10:07 PM
Here are a couple of before and after pictures of INC Koi that went into our mud ponds. As the Koi grew the Beni stretched and lightened but stay uniform.

rainblood
09-02-2011, 12:53 PM
:snap: Do you ever pay attention?
:bum::whip:

Noahsnana
09-02-2011, 07:07 PM
I can clearly see the stretching and the beni deeper in the middle of the second pictures posted... so expect to see this when growth takes place. After time the beni balances throughout the scale?

Russell Peters
09-02-2011, 10:29 PM
:bum::whip:

You have that A.D.D. thingy don't you.:thinking:

Russell Peters
09-02-2011, 10:30 PM
I can clearly see the stretching and the beni deeper in the middle of the second pictures posted... so expect to see this when growth takes place. After time the beni balances throughout the scale?

Yes, and as long as this is going on the Koi is continuing to improve. Once it stops it is finishing.

Russell Peters
09-03-2011, 01:29 PM
Here is the next installment from INC.


Long Lasting Beni


A high-quality Koi is the one that will sustain its beauty for a long time. Its Kiwa will develop in 10 - 15 years. Many hobbyists mistakenly focus on the presence or development of Kamisori-Kiwa or Maruzome-Kiwa in the young to medium aged fish.

The high quality Koi, however, is the one that will develop its Kiwa slowly, over a long period of time. Along the same lines, when Beni is of high quality, even if its Kiwa seems soft and undefined, eventually Hiban will be pulled toward the head, and Maruzome-Kiwa, in a shape of scales, will be formed simply by the elastic surface tension of the Beni. Beni literally means red pigment in Japanese. Using the analogy of Beni as paint, it can be experienced that when one paints surfaces with thin paint he/she will experience the pigment spreading smoothly over the surface.

Painting over a surface many times with lightweight painting will result in an even tone surface color with depth and saturation as the result.

Hard paint will not spread smoothly and will leave an uneven surface color and texture. This concept can be applied to Beni. As a pigment, it must have soft even quality, which seems almost wet and elastic like a wet painted surface. Beni will eventually contract and relocate in this type of Koi. It varies from Koi to Koi, but in general, elastic Beni develops its Maruzome from the lower part or from the belly towards the spine.

Nishiki Koi appraisal varies depending on one's purpose and breed of Koi. In general knowing how to determine Beni quality is the most important element in Koi appraisal. Large beautiful Koi develops Fukurin. Although Fukurin cannot be seen during the Tosai period, it becomes noticeable as it develops in width by the 2nd and 3rd year.

As Koi grows and becomes larger, the width of Fukurin can be even wider than the width of the scales on the fish. This creates an increasingly shiny and beautiful appearance. Beni in Hiban also starts to shine with luster affected by the development of Fukurin in Beni.

The difference between cotton and silk is obvious in shininess. The shininess of silk is caused by its smooth texture. In evaluating different qualities of Hiban, comparison based on Beni color alone can be difficult, but a careful inspection of the shiny luster of Beni helps choosing a long lasting Hiban with the quality like 100% silk. Koi are ultimately judged by the professionals by the quality of Hiban.

Russell Peters
09-05-2011, 03:42 PM
One of the important things to remember about quality, and long lasting Beni, is that it just doesn't arrive and then stay there. It is something that develops over time and can even look bad some times. Mr. Sakai calls this type of Beni "professional" Beni as it is usually the professionals that know to wait for it. Patience, and education, are really important at this level. I have seen people give up on a Koi too soon as they are worried that these changes actually equate to failure.
Here is a Kohaku that was purchased, as a 22" Nisai from INC. It has very nice skin and good quality Beni. After it was purchased arrangements were made to keep it in Japan for a seaon in the mud.

Russell Peters
09-05-2011, 03:47 PM
When I first saw this Kohaku I looked at the area that connects the Hiban plate on the head and the one just behind it and thought that it was a thin enough connection that it might open up and become a 3-step Kohaku. Watch what happens as this Koi develops.

Russell Peters
09-05-2011, 04:01 PM
The following fall, after the Kohaku had returned to INC from the mud, we got to see the Kohaku again. We were all excited and had high hopes of what we assumed would be the indicators of improvement. When we saw the Kohaku my customer was silent and , I will admit, I was a little concerned. The over all look of the Kohaku seemed to be down and it had a bit of secondary Hi on it. It just looked messy.
This was another teaching opportunity for Mr. Sakai and he seemed rather excited about it. He spoke about the process this Koi was going through and pointed out how, what looked to be bad news, was actually an indicator of good things to come. The beni was developing and would improve but it takes time. He brought out another Kohaku, form the same parents, that was a year older. It had already gone through this process and it would be the same type of Beni My customer would have on his Kohaku.
I only have one picture I could find of the Kohaku and it was because it had just been fed. Mr. Sakai will not tub Koi once they have been fed as he says it disrupts their ability to digest the food. You can still see the state the Kohaku was in. Ithas secondary Hi on it face, shoulder, body and tail.

Russell Peters
09-05-2011, 04:05 PM
Mr. Sakai wanted to keep this Koi for at least one more year and my customer agreed. In October of 2010 the Kohaku was brought back to INC from the mud and the results were stunning.

Notice how much thicker the Beni got in the area between the 1st Hiban plate, on the head, and the one behind it. Rather than opening up it was developing more Beni and solidifying the connection.

Dravin
09-05-2011, 10:11 PM
All I can say is who is going to argue with the breeder themselves. They know how their fish progress better than anyone and this just goes to show you that if you shy away from the suggestions the breeder gives you then you deserve what you get.

Russell Peters
09-05-2011, 10:57 PM
All I can say is who is going to argue with the breeder themselves. They know how their fish progress better than anyone and this just goes to show you that if you shy away from the suggestions the breeder gives you then you deserve what you get.

Yes, but more to my point, you can educate yourself and make similar choices.:yes: This is why I am doing this. A lot of this information can be applied to Koi, in general, regardless of the breeder. I am just glad that Toshio Sakai likes to share his knowledge.

Russell Peters
09-08-2011, 11:19 AM
The information below is from INC.

Develops more beautifully as time passes


Kamiya Sanke is a good example of a Koi, which develops its beauty as it ages. In 1991 it received the first prize in Sanshoku category at the All Japan Combined show. During seven proceeding years Kamiya Sanke developed its beauty even more noticeably. As you can see from the pictures taken in year 1991 and 1998, the special dynamic beauty is present in the fish after 7 years, which was not there before. The body seems to have further developed in size and quality. The fish shows substantially more depth in Beni color and texture in 1998.

This is a good example of elastic Beni. Beni is something that changes and develops over a long period of time. It is noticeable that a movement of Hiban has taken place due to growth in size and its elasticity. Comparing the pictures that were taken in 1991 and 1998, it is clearly visible that Hiban right above the head with a thin line of Hi in the middle, has developed further. Seven years later the thin Hi joining two areas of Hiban, which was visible in 1991, is no longer visible and there are two separate Hibans with increased size, depth and color. Edges of the Hiban became much more solid, creating well-defined Kiwa in the picture taken in 1998. In the same picture, Hi is thicker and covers the whole area of Hiban with depth and strong consistent Beni. The development of Sumi throughout the body is visible in size, thickness and depth.

Russell Peters
09-08-2011, 11:23 AM
Ifr you look at the first picture of the Kamiya Sanke you can see areas, of the Hiban plate, that some would say are indicators of weak Beni. I will say it again. There is a big difference between weak Beni and Beni that is changing. The indicators are there for quality and the fact that the Beni changed the way it did improved this Koi. Losing some Beni is what happens when it consolidates. Windows can open up, "messy" Kiwa can clean up and the Beni will improve.
The second picture shows how all of the areas improved.

In the first picture, on the Hiban plate behind the dorsal fin and on the left side, you can even see what looks like small windows in the beni that filled in later.:thumb:

Russell Peters
09-12-2011, 11:40 AM
It has been brought up, many times, that some think it is important that Sashi be even and only one scale deep otherwise it will not finish or be "messy". This isn't the case but it really depends on the overall condition of the Koi to determine how it will finish. Here is and example of a Sanke, that was entered in the All Japan Koi Show, and took very high honors, that has Sashi in a couple of areas that is more than one scale deep.

Dravin
09-12-2011, 11:44 AM
It has been brought up, many times, that some think it is important that sashi be even and only one scale deep otherwise it will not finish or be "messy". This isn't the case but it really depends on the overall condition of the Koi to determine how it will finish. Here is and example of a Sanke, that was entered in the All Japan Koi Show, and took very high honors, that has Sashi in a couple of areas that is more than one scale deep.

one scale or not, that sashi is about as even as humanly possible.

Russell Peters
09-12-2011, 03:46 PM
one scale or not, that sashi is about as even as humanly possible.

I am afraid that statement does not make any sense. By definition, going from one scale deep to two scales, means it is uneven.

Dravin
09-12-2011, 05:11 PM
the transparency is even throughout the sashi. There are 3 things that I've been told you can look at in the sashi of the koi.

1. you can look to see how deep and thick the beni is.
2. you can see how finished the koi is by looking to see if there is sashi.
3. you can see that the scales have the same thickness and finish throughout the koi.

The part I'm referring to is 3. It's sort of like looking at the beni plate and seeing the beni have lighter and darker areas in the pigmentation to see if the beni is strong. I've heard that this is a way to tell that the quality of the fish and it's scales are roughly even throughout the koi because you have even transparency throughout the sashi.

Russell Peters
09-12-2011, 10:24 PM
the transparency is even throughout the sashi. There are 3 things that I've been told you can look at in the sashi of the koi.

1. you can look to see how deep and thick the beni is.
2. you can see how finished the koi is by looking to see if there is sashi.
3. you can see that the scales have the same thickness and finish throughout the koi.

The part I'm referring to is 3. It's sort of like looking at the beni plate and seeing the beni have lighter and darker areas in the pigmentation to see if the beni is strong. I've heard that this is a way to tell that the quality of the fish and it's scales are roughly even throughout the koi because you have even transparency throughout the sashi.

OK, I understand what you are saying but, what I am referring to are comments that are made about Sashi HAVING to be even by only being one scale deep. This I disagree with and because there are areas, on this Sanke, where the Sashi is two scales deep I am saying it is uneven in that manner. I absolutley believe that Sashi can be deeper than one scale, and be uneven in that way, and still finish as a high quality Koi.
I agree with what you are sayin to as "evenness" is always a good indicator so, the transparency of the Sashi, being even, is a good thing. I am not sure that it will always be that way though, unless the skin thickens evenly.;)

Dravin
09-12-2011, 11:14 PM
OK, I understand what you are saying but, what I am referring to are comments that are made about Sashi HAVING to be even by only being one scale deep. This I disagree with and because there are areas, on this Sanke, where the Sashi is two scales deep I am saying it is uneven in that manner. I absolutley believe that Sashi can be deeper than one scale, and be uneven in that way, and still finish as a high quality Koi.
I agree with what you are sayin to as "evenness" is always a good indicator so, the transparency of the Sashi, being even, is a good thing. I am not sure that it will always be that way though, unless the skin thickens evenly.;)

no that sanke is crap, no doubt about it. Tell the owner to re-home it in my pond because the sashi is 2 scales deep.

Russell Peters
09-13-2011, 02:19 AM
no that sanke is crap, no doubt about it. Tell the owner to re-home it in my pond because the sashi is 2 scales deep.

Sometimes it's better to think outside of the box.:thumb:

Russell Peters
09-13-2011, 02:36 AM
There are two terms for Sashi that most don't know about. Two scale Sashi is called Nimai Sashi and three scale Sashi is called Sanmai Sashi.:d:

Russell Peters
09-13-2011, 11:31 AM
High quality, elastic Beni can recover from pretty extreme damage. This Sanke gouged out a chunk of its forehead. The after picture is 12 weeks later.

koiman1950
09-13-2011, 06:54 PM
High quality, elastic Beni can recover from pretty extreme damage. This Sanke gouged out a chunk of its forehead. The after picture is 12 weeks later.

Glad to see pics of this one again Russ. She's doing fine and the beni is still quite strong. She's still long and lanky, but we know that will change with more age/size. She is the most aggressive fish in the pond at feeding time, constanly swimming over fish up to 30" to get to the food.

BTW, thanks for creating all these teaching threads. They're current, up to date information directly from the best breeder. Much better than trying to decipher old info from outdated books!

Mike

Russell Peters
09-14-2011, 10:50 AM
Glad to see pics of this one again Russ. She's doing fine and the beni is still quite strong. She's still long and lanky, but we know that will change with more age/size. She is the most aggressive fish in the pond at feeding time, constanly swimming over fish up to 30" to get to the food.

BTW, thanks for creating all these teaching threads. They're current, up to date information directly from the best breeder. Much better than trying to decipher old info from outdated books!

Mike

You are welcome Mike.

Russell Peters
09-14-2011, 11:17 AM
I don't have any development pictures of this Kohaku but, ever since I saw this one, I was sorry we couldn't get it. It was a 22" Nisai with "yellow" type Beni. This is from INC.

rainblood
09-14-2011, 11:26 AM
How early on can you recognize pink and yellow beni?

Russell Peters
09-14-2011, 11:34 AM
How early on can you recognize pink and yellow beni?

Me, Tosai, you :shrug:

rainblood
09-14-2011, 11:41 AM
Me, Tosai, you :shrug:

I need a professional beni Kohaku to match my professional contractor grade Home Depot pencils (and sharpener).

Russell Peters
09-25-2011, 08:44 PM
A friend pointed me to an article in Nichirin magazine that was published in August 2007. It was an interview with the breeder Konishi and he talks about what to look for in picking Tosai Kohaku. This information would not apply to Koi as much as they get older but it certainly applies to younger Koi. When asked about Sashi his response was as follows;


Sashi, vague-red parts under white scales at the front of the Hi marking, was thought to be one of the points in examining good quality Hi before, however recently Sashi itself isn't important. You may say it is good when the Sashi part is uniform in width. If Sashi isn't uneven or wider than one scale, the Hi is less quality. There is no problem that a Hi marking has no Sashi.

He is saying that the better Beni is represented by Sashi that is uneven and more than one scale thick. Very interesting information.

Russell Peters
09-27-2011, 01:06 PM
I often speak about that there is a difference between Beni that is changing andf Beni that is weak. Weak Beni breaks up and disappears and it can become painfully obvious what is happening after the fact. Quality, elastic Beni will stretch with growth and pull forward as it is developing to form Maruzome Kiwa. This is Kiwa that forms to the outline of the scale and leaves the back edge of the Hiban plate with a scallop shape. This type of Beni can have rather drastic changes as well. This series of pictures will show what I mean.
We have a customer that bought this Showa from Mr. Sakai and two years ago Mr. Sakai was explaining that the Beni on the shoulder and head would seperate and form a nice Maruten. You can actually see a few white scales where this process had already begun. This picture shows Mr. Sakai's hand as he is pointing to the area that will change.

Russell Peters
09-27-2011, 01:09 PM
Mr. Sakai predicted that these changes would take place while in the mud that summer. Here is a picture of the Showa after she came out.

Russell Peters
09-27-2011, 01:13 PM
This is a Showa that will take many years to fully develop. Here are some more pictures of her after she came out of the mud a year after the last pictures. The Beni is holding strong.

rainblood
09-27-2011, 05:42 PM
I often speak about that there is a difference between Beni that is changing andf Beni that is weak. Weak Beni breaks up and disappears and it can become painfully obvious what is happening after the fact. Quality, elastic Beni will stretch with growth and pull forward as it is developing to form Maruzome Kiwa. This is Kiwa that forms to the outline of the scale and leaves the back edge of the Hiban plate with a scallop shape. This type of Beni can have rather drastic changes as well. This series of pictures will show what I mean.
We have a customer that bought this Showa from Mr. Sakai and two years ago Mr. Sakai was explaining that the Beni on the shoulder and head would seperate and form a nice Maruten. You can actually see a few white scales where this process had already begun. This picture shows Mr. Sakai's hand as he is pointing to the area that will change.
It looks like he is just flipping you the bird

KatieVL
09-27-2011, 08:08 PM
:wow: I had a hard time appreciating the koi for the rock on the ladies hand.

Russell Peters
09-29-2011, 02:42 PM
The information below is from INC.

Develops more beautifully as time passes


Kamiya Sanke is a good example of a Koi, which develops its beauty as it ages. In 1991 it received the first prize in Sanshoku category at the All Japan Combined show. During seven proceeding years Kamiya Sanke developed its beauty even more noticeably. As you can see from the pictures taken in year 1991 and 1998, the special dynamic beauty is present in the fish after 7 years, which was not there before. The body seems to have further developed in size and quality. The fish shows substantially more depth in Beni color and texture in 1998.

This is a good example of elastic Beni. Beni is something that changes and develops over a long period of time. It is noticeable that a movement of Hiban has taken place due to growth in size and its elasticity. Comparing the pictures that were taken in 1991 and 1998, it is clearly visible that Hiban right above the head with a thin line of Hi in the middle, has developed further. Seven years later the thin Hi joining two areas of Hiban, which was visible in 1991, is no longer visible and there are two separate Hibans with increased size, depth and color. Edges of the Hiban became much more solid, creating well-defined Kiwa in the picture taken in 1998. In the same picture, Hi is thicker and covers the whole area of Hiban with depth and strong consistent Beni. The development of Sumi throughout the body is visible in size, thickness and depth.

When I first posted the information, with this Sanke, I knew it was a Sanke from Matsunosuke but I didn't know much about it. I had e-mailed Miwa Sakai for information and I just got a reply. This Sanke is from their original Sanke bloodline before they introduced magoi blood in them to get longer bodies. Their original Sanke parents are no longer alive.