Judging at the All Japan Koi Show

[Russell Peters]

The AJKS is a promotional event put on by the Zen Nippon Nishikigoi Shinko Kai also known as the Shinkokai. The Shinkokai is a professional organization of dealers and breeders in Japan that was started to promote Koi. Over the years chapters of Shinkokai have opened in other countries. The US chapter now has 14 members and PSKoi is one of them. As a member we get the opportunity to Judge the Koi at the All Japan Koi Show. This is quite an honor as this show has the best fish in the world and the other judges are the best breeders in the world. This show, for anyone, is a great way to educate yourself in Koi. Where else can you go and spend two days looking at the best Koi in the world?

[Russell Peters]

The only draw back, that I can see, to being a judge is that you have to dress up.:rolleyes:

[Russell Peters]

There are seventeen individual size groups divided into 6 divisions for judging. they are as follows;

Baby division (Yogyo)
12BU up to 12cm
15BU 12cm up to 15cm
20BU 15cm up to 20cm
25BU 20cm up to 25cm

Young division (Wakagoi)
30BU 25cm up to 30cm
35BU 30cm up to 35cm
40BU 35cm up to 40cm

Adult division (Seigyo)
45BU 40cm up to 45cm
50BU 45cm up to 50cm
55BU 50cm up to 55cm

Mature division (Sougyo)
60BU 55cm up to 60cm
65BU 60cm up to 65cm
70BU 65cm up to 70cm

Jumbo division (Kyori)
75BU 70cm up to 75cm
80BU 75cm up to 80cm

Super Jumbo division (Tiagyo)
85BU 80cm up to 85cm
90BU over85cm

From the 55Bu size and up the male and female Koi are judged separately.

Separation of type.

Within each BU category, other than the males over 55BU, the Koi will be divided into 19 varieties.
they are as follows;

01 Kohaku
02 Taisho-Sanke
03 Showa-Sanke
04 Utsuri-Mono
05 Hikari-Muji
06 Hikari-Moyo
07 Asagi
08 Shusui
09 Goshiki
10 Kawari-Goi
11 A-Type GinRin (Kohaku, Taisho-Sanke and Showa-Sanke)
12 B-Type GinRin (All others not included in A-Type
13 Bekko
14 Hikari-Utsuri
15 Tancho
16 Koromo
17 Doitsu-Goi (Other than Shusui, Kumonryu and Hikari-Mono)
21 Kujaku
22 Kumonryu

The male Koi over 55Bu will be divided into the following 7 varieties;

01 Kohaku
02 Taisho-Sanke
10 Kawari-Goi
11 GinRin-A
18 Showa-Sanke & Utsuri
19 Hikari-Mono (All Hikari-Mono)
20 Doitsu-Goi (Other than Shusui, Kumonryu and Hikari-Mono)

[Russell Peters]

I really like this one.:yes:


Each Judge should make his / her decision based on body conformation, coloration, pattern, quality, character, dignity and over all look. Each decision will be registered with the judges name.


It is interesting to note that, if you do not include you name on the ballot, it will be discarded and not counted.

[Russell Peters]

There are 74 total judges including a "Chairman of Judges". The group of 74 judges will include nine "District Chairmen", one from each of the 9 districts. These 9 "District Chairmen" will be placed through out the judging area to ensure the smoothness and fairness of the judging process. The remaining judges will be placed into the 12 groups by drawing. Five additional judges, from overseas will be placed within groups 5 - 12 by drawing.

[Russell Peters]

1). Every judge will make his / her selection for the best Koi in the show. The top 5 selected will be candidates to become the Grand Champion. If any Koi receives more than 50% of the vote, the Koi automatically becomes Grand Champion.
2). Each judge will select and vote for one of five candidates for Grand Champion.
3). The selected Grand Champion will be awarded Best in Size (Kokugyo) and best in Variety.
4). The remaining 4 Koi that have not been chosen for Grand Champion will be returned to their original tanks and will be included in the regular judging.

[rainblood]

The only draw back, that I can see, to being a judge is that you have to dress up.:rolleyes:

Nice orangey peach tie...it really brings out your skin tone :fbird:

[Russell Peters]

1). First place, Runner-up and Honorable Mention
2). Best in Size Award (Kokugyo)
3). Division Champion
The Division Champions are as follows;
Baby Size Division 15Bu to 25BU
Young Size Division 30BU to 40BU
Adult Size Division 45BU to 55Bu including 55BU male
Mature Size Division 60BU to 70BU no males
Jumbo Size Division 75BU to 80BU no males
Super Jumbo Size Division 85BU to 90BU no males
Mature Size Division 60Bu to 70BU (male)
Jumbo Size Division 75BU to 90BU (male)
4). Best in Variety Award
5). Outstanding Award
The Outstanding Award will be given to two Koi. One for the heaviest Koi, still maintaining normal body conformation, entered in the show. This award will be called the "Miya Hideo Award". The other outstanding award will be given to the longest fish entered in the show. This award will be called the "Yoshida Hiroshi Prize". The same Koi can not be awarded both titles in the same show.
This prize is to acknowledge a hobbyist that has achieved superior raising techniques.
6). Show's Special Encouragement Award (Sakura Award)
This award will be given to the best Koi selected, from each size, except for Kohaku, Taisho-Sanke, Showa-Sanke and Shiro Utsuri.
7). Sakura Champion Award
This award will be given to the best Koi selected from the Sakura award winners.

[Russell Peters]

Koi winning awards above first place may receive more than one award. The Koi will not be "moved-up" to the next higher position.
In the case that the first place winnner also wins the best in Size and best in variety Awards, the Koi will only be awarded the certificate for first place.

[Russell Peters]

Before the judging starts we are able to walk through the hall and view all of the Koi. The front section of the hall is full of empty tanks that are reserved for the major winners. This vat is waiting for the GC.

[Russell Peters]

To either side of the vats for the GC and the main winners are the vats for the Best in Size and best in Variety awards. Along the wall, in the first picture, you can see pictures of all of the prior GC's.

[Russell Peters]

At 9am we have to go into one of the conference rooms to get our judging assignments. this is done by lottery which means you reach into a bowl and pull out a piece of paper with a number on it. I drew #7 which meant I was in judging group #7 and we had the 65Bu size category to judge.
Not long after this a meeting is called but, the problem with this is, it is all in Japanese. We are given the rules and regulations in English which helps a lot but I know we are missing something.
Regardless of the language barrier, the amazing thing is that, you are sitting in a room full of the best breeders in the world.

[Russell Peters]

Once the meeting was adjourned we were all told to leave our cell phones on the tables as no form of outside communication is allowed during the judging. Once we go in to judge they post guards on all the doors.

[Russell Peters]

The first thing we are told to do is go up to the front of the hall and line up in groups. We all wore jackets with the number of our judging group on it. After some direction we were told to go out around the vats and look for a Koi for GC. You might recognize a few breeders in some of the pics. There is one picture in the group that show some of the past GC's, these are the ones I have have seen in person at the All Japan Koi Shows.

[cdnhock]

what is the signifigance to the guys in the green jackets looks like there might be one at each table

[Russell Peters]

Once we had a chance to look for our choice of GC we all went back to the front and lined up. We were called up, by group, to put our ballots in a box. As the ballots were going into the box they would count, out loud, the number of ballots going in to make sure that all of us had voted, once!

[Russell Peters]

what is the signifigance to the guys in the green jackets looks like there might be one at each table

The light green jackets are the "District Chairmen" and they are there to make sure everything goes smoothly. There were also guys with darker green jackets and they were our fish handlers.

[Russell Peters]

Once all of the ballots were cast they opened the box and began to count. There were several "Press" photographers there and they got pretty close so I decided to leave the line and get some closer pictures of the ballot counting.

[Russell Peters]

After the first count a group of guys were sent to get the Koi and bring them into the vats up front for the final judging. Notice the small white net in this picture. it's what they used to corral these behemoths.

[Russell Peters]

After the first ballot two Kohaku were brought forward for the second round of judging. It was the Nogami Kohaku and the SFF Kohaku. They were put into vats that were numbered 1 to 5. When we voted the second time all we had to put down was a 1 or a 2.

[Russell Peters]

Since there were only two Koi chosen for the next vote it would be the last vote and we would have our GC. Mr. Sakai was in charge of overseeing the counting and announced the winner.

[Gene]

Excellent! Thank you Russell. Having followed forum posts about the AJS for 14 years this is the best coverage I've seen. I really appreciate it as I'm sure all the other members of the WWKC do. :yes:

[Russell Peters]

Once the GC was chosen all of the judging groups went off to judge their divisions. The size division I find the most fascinating, and probably the most difficult to judge, are the smaller sizes. They are judged in bags, on the floor and I think it goes up to 35 or 40cm. There were fish, only 3" in size, in some of these bags.

[Russell Peters]

As we all judged we would vote for the first place, runner up and honorable mention Koi in all of our varieties in the size ranges we were assigned to. Once this was completed several judging groups would get together and vote on the larger prizes. Since our judging group was 65Bu we got together with the 70Bu and 75Bu judging groups and voted on the Best in Size and Variety for those 3 divisions. With the groups that judged the Koi in the plastic bags, the best were brought up front to a mat where they were laid out for further judging and then placement into the higher award vats.

[Russell Peters]

Excellent! Thank you Russell. Having followed forum posts about the AJS for 14 years this is the best coverage I've seen. I really appreciate it as I'm sure all the other members of the WWKC do. :yes:

You are welcome, I appreciate the kind words and am glad you are enjoying it.

[Russell Peters]

To aid us in judging each judge had a booklet with pictures, and information, of all of the fish, by variety, in our division. Each tank had a sign with the tank number, pictures of the fish in that tank, the number of the fish and the size, in centimeters of that fish. It is quite and undertaking to put on this show. BTW, a 6' tank cost $1,500.00 to show fish.

[Russell Peters]

It took us about 5 hours to judge the show and by the time we were done I was out of steam so we came back to the hotel to rest. Tomorrow I will post pictures of all of the major winners.

[rainblood]

Do you get to keep the jacket as a souvenir?

[Billy]

Awesome thread!

[LB v3.0]

Thank you Russ! Very well done you sure cleared some things up for me.:clap:
Larry

[rosekoi]

Duuude u look like you've been hit with a bag of salt ;)

Thanks for taking us along with you :yes:

[cindy]

Incredible pics, thank you so much. Were you taking the pics? Glad the camera got to go in.

Thats JR? He's not doing anything?

[koiman1950]

It took us about 5 hours to judge the show and by the time we were done I was out of steam so we came back to the hotel to rest. Tomorrow I will post pictures of all of the major winners.

Wow! Now this is a picture for the ages!!!

Russ, I agree with Gene. This is the most comprehensive, well detailed information ever provided on the internet that I have ever seen about the "Biggest Koi Show on Earth"! Thanks for the journey.

Mike

[Marilyn]

:clap: Thank you, Russ. It's all fascinating. I can't wait to see more. It's such an awesome show and event.
This coverage is the closest many of us will ever be to it.

[Russell Peters]

Do you get to keep the jacket as a souvenir?

No, everything goes back.

[Russell Peters]

Awesome thread!


Thank you Russ! Very well done you sure cleared some things up for me.:clap:
Larry


Duuude u look like you've been hit with a bag of salt ;)

Thanks for taking us along with you :yes:


Wow! Now this is a picture for the ages!!!

Russ, I agree with Gene. This is the most comprehensive, well detailed information ever provided on the internet that I have ever seen about the "Biggest Koi Show on Earth"! Thanks for the journey.

Mike

You are all welcome, it's very tiring, I think we walked 5 or 6 miles looking at Koi.

[Russell Peters]

Incredible pics, thank you so much. Were you taking the pics? Glad the camera got to go in.

Thats JR? He's not doing anything?

You're welcome, yes, I was taking the pictures. They allowed "press" in with cameras so I took a chance. No one said a word.
Yes, that is JR. JR is the President of ZNA in the US. Every year ZNA has judging excersices at the AJKS and he is there to attend those. He and Kari spent some time talking while the judging was going on and we had a chance to talk for a while after the judging was over.

[Russell Peters]

:clap: Thank you, Russ. It's all fascinating. I can't wait to see more. It's such an awesome show and event.
This coverage is the closest many of us will ever be to it.

You're welcome, but you could always go, anyone can go to the show, and sit with your nose plastered against the door while the judging is going on.:rolleyes::winks::D:

[Marilyn]

Don't tempt me. ;) :D:

[Noahsnana]

Are we able to get critique per fish judged?

[koiman1950]

Are we able to get critique per fish judged?

Now THAT would be one serious thread! There's probably over 2000 fish in the show!:yes::fmouth::scratch::D:;)

[Russell Peters]

Are we able to get critique per fish judged?

That would be difficult but I will see what I can do. Part of the problem is that it would be hard to see why one fish did well unless you could see all of the fish in that group but, posting a few fish and discussing their merits is a possibility.

[Noahsnana]

That would be difficult but I will see what I can do. Part of the problem is that it would be hard to see why one fish did well unless you could see all of the fish in that group but, posting a few fish and discussing their merits is a possibility.

That was my intent I know you can't post all I think it would be a great learning tool

[Joey S]

Anything you can get for us is much appreciated. Too bad we don't speak Japanese. I guess there is not a "walkabout" after the show!! Pretty exclusive company you have there.

[SouthernStarr]

Just wanted to say thank you to Russ for taking the time to do this for us:clap::clap:

[Russell Peters]

Anything you can get for us is much appreciated. Too bad we don't speak Japanese. I guess there is not a "walkabout" after the show!! Pretty exclusive company you have there.

No "walkabouts" here but it can be pretty interesting once you get to know a few breeders.

[Russell Peters]

Just wanted to say thank you to Russ for taking the time to do this for us:clap::clap:

You're welcome.

[Russell Peters]

This was a Koi in our judging group. Would you consider it Sanke or Showa and why?

[rainblood]

Sanke.

My reasoning:
Looks like Sanke sumi and it only appears to be on the top half of the fish.

[Limpet]

For the same reasons, no sumi on the head or pecks,, smui looks to be more "stepping stone" then banding....then what do I know.

[andres58]

Thanks Russ........great stuff..........

[Marilyn]

I'm going to guess but I would say Sanke too. The sumi and its development looks like Sanke. Collected and it looks more like a white based koi and not a black based koi.
Watch it be a showa. :tape:

[Dravin]

Sanke. I see no sumi below the lateral lines. While this may be a good parent koi if a breeder was going for large sumi spots, why on earth would anyone bring this koi the the worlds greatest koi show may I ask?

[Noahsnana]

Sanke... Sumi on is on white so a plus

[TODDER]

Great thread once again Russ.:clap: I cant get enough of your Japan trips for sure.

Even though it does look more sanke than showa I will say Showa. The sumi looks more banded around the koi than a stepping stone, even though the sumi does not appear on head or pecks.

[Russell Peters]

Sanke.

My reasoning:
Looks like Sanke sumi and it only appears to be on the top half of the fish.

Looking like Sanke Sumi, even if a good guess on your part, is correct but the fact that it only appears on the top half doesn't really mean much. What if this is a young fish or the Sumi hasn't come up all the way and hasn't finished?

[Russell Peters]

For the same reasons, no sumi on the head or pecks,, smui looks to be more "stepping stone" then banding....then what do I know.

Sanke can have Sumi on the pecs, it is usually seen as stripes called Tejema, and having Sumi on the head would not necessarily make this a Showa. Sanke can have Sumi on the head but that's another story. What's important is to learn to recognize the differences between Sanke and Showa without these indicators as they don't always hold true. The type of Sumi is usually the best way when all else fails. Your bringing up the "stepping stone" look of the Sumi is important. Sanke Sumi, whether in smaller portions or larger, as this Koi has, will have a "look" to it. Keeping it simple, as far as describing how Sanke Sumi looks, is to use the "stepping stone" idea. Since Sanke Sumi and Showa Sumi are different, they will grow differently and have a different look to them. This look has been blurred somewhat as some breeders have used Sanke Sumi in Showa to get that lacquer black look. This Koi does has very large areas of Sumi but they still tend to look like "stepping stones".

[Russell Peters]

Sanke. I see no sumi below the lateral lines. While this may be a good parent koi if a breeder was going for large sumi spots, why on earth would anyone bring this koi the the worlds greatest koi show may I ask?

I can't answer why someone would enter this Koi but this was my first thought as well. This sanke was in the 65BU size and there were only 8 other Sanke in the group. This Sanke was with them and was hands down the best of the group. It was awarded the highest honor and received the Kokugyo prize.

[Russell Peters]

Compare the differences in these two Sanke and tell me what you see. Look at everything. Skin, body, pattern whatever you can think of.

[andres58]

wow no comparison......as you mentioned the first Sanke is hands down the best of the two. With my limited knowledge I look for confirmation, skin color, sumi depth and beni color....Then I envision it as a Kohaku and then as a Bekko......

The first Sanke fits my criteria...................

[Russell Peters]

wow no comparison......as you mentioned the Sanke first is hands down the best of the two. With my limited knowledge I look for confirmation, skin color, sumi depth and beni color....Then I envision it as a Kohaku and then as a Beco......

The first Sanke fits my criteria...................

Ah, but whether or not it is a good Kohaku or Bekko has nothing to do with what makes this Sanke good. You need to look deeper into the other aspects of this Koi and think about how they relate to its character and presence. What is good about the conformation? What makes the skin quality good? and so on.

This other Sanke won Adult Champion in 55BU and, although it has a good Kohaku pattern, it certainly does not have a good Bekko pattern. This isn't even the same type of Sanke.

[andres58]

Russ I'm stumped......... Other than the obvious this Sanke is hard to judge as a class champion. I personally would not buy it. IMO its missing one more large sumi behind the head to complete the Bekko pattern. Now if in judging this is an insignificant element then on balance it does posses that champion look.

As I mature in this hobby I'm beginning to understand my preferences, although I need to refine them.

[Russell Peters]

Russ I'm stumped......... Other than the obvious this Sanke is hard to judge as a class champion. I personally would not buy it. IMO its missing that nice Bekko pattern.

As I mature in this hobby I'm beginning to understand my preferences, although I need to refine them.


That's my point, your judging a Koi by a preset set of standards, like having a Bekko pattern, is not what it's about. This is why I am asking people to look at the two Koi and post as much information as they can come up with for the questions I asked. Now, learning how to appreciate Koi, doesn't mean you have to like what I like, a Japanese breeder likes or someone else likes. The point is to learn to judge Koi from the merits that make them truly great. Having this information will allow you to make better choices, based on quality, and you can still get patterns you like.

[Russell Peters]

In a sense, this is about deconstructing Koi and putting them back together again. It's learning what makes up a good Koi and it always starts with quality. If you learn to recognize quality over pattern you will put yourself in another world of Koi keeping.

[Marilyn]

Okay, I'll set myself up for a smack down.

conformation - I love the shape on the first sanke. Nice and thick all the way into the tail tube. The body will get even more impressive as she matures is my guess.
skin - The skin on the first fish is simply awesome. Beautiful luster, she glows in every sense of the word. The skin on her head is almost pearl-like. Her shiroji throughout is superb.
beni - The beni is gorgeous, nice and thick... deep from one end of her to the other. Kiwa and sashi? They should all be this nice. :D:
sumi - The sumi quality is far superior too. The inkiness of the sumi on the first sanke is stellar. And the placement of the sumi, being almost completely tsubo sumi is fantastic.
presence - She's a knockout. She's refined, graceful and yet powerful.

Sign me up for one. :lol:

[andres58]

If you learn to recognize quality over pattern you will put yourself in another world of Koi keeping.

So when you observe a Koi what is the priority list of points you ask yourself about that particular specimen?

1
2
3
4
5
6
7 pattern

[Russell Peters]

I am hoping others will respond to this.

[koiman1950]

Okay, I'll join in the fun.

First Sanke - Body conformation is solid, mass to length from nose to tail. The head and gill plates flow gracefully into the shoulders as one. The main body is not too plump or thin. It carries the shape into a very strong yet well sized ozutsu.

Skin - as the Shiroji provides the canvas background, it gives the impression of thick semi-transparent depth. There is a level of guanine in the pigmentation that gives it a sparkle, which as it grows further, will allow the fukurin to be displayed beautifully. Not all Gosanke develop fukurin, but this one will. The beni appears to be "pink beni" which is hard to get. The sakura coloring is very uniform throughout. The sumi, which is ideally placed both as a "stepping stone" pattern and all Tsubo Zumi on the white ground lends itself to the overall "balance". The depth of this sumi is quite beautiful and is a "blue-black" which is superior in quality. At this point, this fish appears "finished" as all three colors appear to be "peaking" at the same time. My suspicion however, is that this will continue to maintain or improve over the next 2-3 years due to the quality tsuya and teri this fish displays.

Pattern - Looking at this fish, at first glance, it captures your eye and your heart. then studying it, you get an even deeper feeling about it. What catches my eye the most about the pattern is that both the sumi and beni are in harmonic balance and BOTH have a "stepping stone" pattern. As Sanke are appreciated for their "feminine" look and Showa for their "masculine" appearance (old style), this fish, to me, epitomizes the true definition of Tashio Sanshoku.

Mike

[andres58]

Mike I could have not said better myself....................:cool3:

[Russell Peters]

I am sorry I haven't had time to respond.;) This isn't really going the way that I had hoped it would. It doesn't really matter whether you think you are right or wrong but I was hoping that, everyone that wanted to, would respond in their own words. it's the first step in learning to evaluate Koi. Think outside the "box".:D:

[Marilyn]

It might take you walking us through what you see, Russ. :thinking:

A lot of us haven't had the opportunity to learn how to evaluate koi. We're here to learn. :yes:

[BurtonKoi]

Wow, I can't wait to see this because I was starring at the 2 pics for about 20 min and to me, they look the same. Not in a literal sense, but in some weird 2 a.m. sense. Guess I will have to wait and see. :)

[powerman]

when i look at the two sanke, the quality of the first one just leaps out at me....the second one, not so much....
the first sanke leaves an impression in my mind...it is the impression of a koi at first glance that catches my eye and then i look to see why...the quality of the skin, shiroji,depth of color,and the shape of the koi....but i think a koi has to have that look that draws your eye to the face...in the second koi, my eye is immediately drawn to the heavy sumi spot which is more of an eyesore than an enhancement....the first koi my eye is drawn to the face and it is attractive....
so to sum up for me, when i walk through the vats at a show, the first time, i see the koi that make an impression on me...then i go through them more slowly looking at why......and the ones that drew my eye at first glance are usually the ones that after studying them all more closely that still have the best attributes ...confirmation ...skin quality...glow of health ...i think it is presence.....and art.....and beauty.......the different patterns and the pattern rules aren't all that important...it is the overall impression of a koi that matters most......and i think my eye is getting better but i still have more to learn....
To sum up ....on these two koi there is no comparison..one is so much better than the other...where it becomes harder is when two koi are both of excellent quality and both have a look that draws the eye and makes me say wow...that's when i am glad i am not a judge that has to decide between two well deserving koi that are both beautiful and healthy with balanced patterns and no defects...awesome skin.... then it becomes much harder to decide which is more deserving...and you have to deconstruct the koi in your mind and put them back together..that's when size or pattern might be the tie breaker....but always quality first...

[Noahsnana]

In a sense, this is about deconstructing Koi and putting them back together again. It's learning what makes up a good Koi and it always starts with quality. If you learn to recognize quality over pattern you will put yourself in another world of Koi keeping.

Words of wisdom.... changed my thinking

[Marilyn]

:bump:

[rainblood]

Compare the differences in these two Sanke and tell me what you see. Look at everything. Skin, body, pattern whatever you can think of.


Sanke 1:
412023

Even beni tone. Flowery pattern, which is more refined, which I believe means is more difficult to make stable. I see some underlying beni, which indicates its strong? Sumi is minimally overlapping the beni, which I believe is the goal on Sanke sumi. I do see sumi on the tail and a lack of tejimi (?) in the pecs. I think these would be considered detriments by US judging standards?? The white is beautiful. I can see flecks of guanine or matsunosuke gin...which I have been told is a sign of quality. Classic torpedo conformation. She does look pinched behind the gills...but I don't know what that means. As far as I can tell, the head looks clean. Face looks like it got smacked by a frying pan.




Sanke 2:
412024

I'm thinking we would use her as an oyagoi :lol: Beni looks even. Sumi is strong but crappily positioned. Shiroji looks like it has a tint of yellow, but I think thats your camera. From this angle, it looks like it has a pouch. No pinch behind the neck. No tejimi either. Looks like it has a big head, although the eyes look a little too far apart?

I'd conclude that the first Sanke is more refined, ie difficult to breed and the second is more "primitive". Maybe if you bred the second one for 2 or 3 generations and culled well...you'd be able to produce the first one.



:humble2:

[Russell Peters]

Really?

[Russell Peters]

I am sorry I haven't had time to respond.;) This isn't really going the way that I had hoped it would. It doesn't really matter whether you think you are right or wrong but I was hoping that, everyone that wanted to, would respond in their own words. it's the first step in learning to evaluate Koi. Think outside the "box".:D:

Bump

[rainblood]

**** right homie


Really?

[moodymike]

I personally dont like the body on the first. I love the overall shape, but I dont like the hump. To me it is too large and throws off the symmetry of this Koi.

[Russell Peters]

I personally dont like the body on the first. I love the overall shape, but I dont like the hump. To me it is too large and throws off the symmetry of this Koi.

That Sanke cost $140,000.00 and the owner got the hump for free.:smile:

[jtp79]

That Sanke cost $140,000.00 and the owner got the hump for free.:smile:

WOW,,,,,who is the breeder of that sanke Russ?

One question, When you are judging,,,you listed all the things you looked for with quality being first. If you have 2 sanke that are both very good and everything quality wise seems to be equal,,,the conformation, the beni, the sumi, everything is good. What do you use to make your final decision? When does pattern become the decide all factor if everything else is equal?

One more,,,,lets say you have sanke that the pattern is just terrible,,,,,lets say just one beni spot on the shoulders and one near the tail. Both say about 3 inches wide. With sumi scattered but the quality of the beni and sumi are both great, and it also has great skin, so the quality is there but there is no pattern at all. And then you have a sanke like the second one,,,that is not amazing but is not terrible. Beni and sumi is good,,,conformation is not great but not terrible but you can see the skin luster is not there. So, how do you decide which one is the better koi?

[moodymike]

Do you think now that the buyer knows my opinion he will be able to get a partial refund?
:lmao:

[Marilyn]

The breeder of the 13,000,000 yen koi was Sakai Fish Farm.

[Russell Peters]

WOW,,,,,who is the breeder of that sanke Russ?

One question, When you are judging,,,you listed all the things you looked for with quality being first. If you have 2 sanke that are both very good and everything quality wise seems to be equal,,,the conformation, the beni, the sumi, everything is good. What do you use to make your final decision? When does pattern become the decide all factor if everything else is equal?

I have never been in this situation and quality is the determining factor. I think you are more likely to have pattern be the deciding factor on smaller Koi than larger Koi

One more,,,,lets say you have sanke that the pattern is just terrible,,,,,lets say just one beni spot on the shoulders and one near the tail. Both say about 3 inches wide. With sumi scattered but the quality of the beni and sumi are both great, and it also has great skin, so the quality is there but there is no pattern at all. And then you have a sanke like the second one,,,that is not amazing but is not terrible. Beni and sumi is good,,,conformation is not great but not terrible but you can see the skin luster is not there. So, how do you decide which one is the better koi?

The quality of the first Koi would make it the winner. The first Sanke you describe sounds ideal to me and it really sounds like you are making it out to be bad because it is a pattern that you wouldn't like.

[Russell Peters]

Do you think now that the buyer knows my opinion he will be able to get a partial refund?
:lmao:

It's still a young fish and the height it has, on it's shoulder, is going to be a plus later on.